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Trapping System: Grid

  • #301
  • Jun 17, 2015 12:54pm Jun 17, 2015 12:54pm
Quoting Trading88
{quote} I tried in the same acc (Demo) and it is giving good profits, not problems at all about cycles

I have 30 orders per side, is that too much? i am afraid to put only 10 and then they can not recreate more to as the price continues moving against my orders

What is the real diference between limit and stop orders?

thank u so much
  • #302
  • Jun 17, 2015 1:24pm Jun 17, 2015 1:24pm
ouch, do not use this EA on high impact news. my demo got a huge dent now.

The first spike was ok and close with profit but than on the whipsaws a lot of pending was triggered, buy and sell and end up with a huge lost.

next big news i will try to hit the Stop next cycle button and check what happens. 10 min after is safe to turn on again.
  • #303
  • Jun 17, 2015 1:25pm Jun 17, 2015 1:25pm
Quoting IgotAplan
ouch, do not use this EA on high impact news. my demo got a huge dent now. The first spike was ok and close with profit but than on the whipsaws a lot of pending was triggered, buy and sell and end up with a huge lost. next big news i will try to hit the Stop next cycle button and check what happens. 10 min after is safe to turn on again.

I use the two type of orders with 30 orders per side and it was great, more than 2K in demo using limit and stop orders
  • #304
  • Jun 17, 2015 1:28pm Jun 17, 2015 1:28pm
Dear creator of this system

Is better to use only stop orders in news? or limit?


Thank u
  • #305
  • Jun 17, 2015 1:53pm Jun 17, 2015 1:53pm
Quoting Trading88
{quote} I use the two type of orders with 30 orders per side and it was great, more than 2K in demo using limit and stop orders
The type 2 must be excellent for whipsaw action. The problem in if a strong trend occurs next you will be hurt to.

I am just passing some experience to help others, i did not like the result and will stop the EA on FOMC and NFP events.
Better safe than sorry, this system looks profitable enough in other times.
  • #306
  • Edited 7:04pm Jun 17, 2015 6:47pm | Edited 7:04pm
Quoting IgotAplan
{quote} The type 2 must be excellent for whipsaw action. The problem in if a strong trend occurs next you will be hurt to. I am just passing some experience to help others, i did not like the result and will stop the EA on FOMC and NFP events. Better safe than sorry, this system looks profitable enough in other times.
what do you mean by "type 2"?


btw from what i noticed so far (and i run it 23hrs ending running so far 24 because of open orders)

1) you need a broker with max 1-1.2 pip (eurusd) spread (incl commissions) more than that its at best "slow" at worst "dangerous"

2) it would be nice if you have a broker with "rational" swaps and not the "crazy" swaps many brokers have... i use activtrades (but on demo)

3) its better if recreational orders are more than 1 (havent found the ideal number so far)

4) start with a few orders per side (i have 2-4) with recreationals

5) use the stop orders is better even on "major events" like today... with FOMC (one of the reason i started it 18 hrs before that)

6) DONT BE GREEDY (simple as that)

so far it works ok...on demo... but will see

it would be nice if we could discuss ideal setups


btw have anyone noticed that the amount shown on the "last profit" and "biggest profit" is not the actual "printed" in the account? i always see a higher number by far than of what i see on the executed closed orders (and has nothing to do with swaps and commissions)
  • #307
  • Jun 17, 2015 6:50pm Jun 17, 2015 6:50pm
Quoting codar
{quote} Would you please enter your settings in the table I've attached and post it here so we can keep track of different settings. Later on, you can just add your results. {file} Good Luck with your test!
i will do it after a few days with results as i am (ended up) running now 3 different demos ;-)
  • #308
  • Jun 17, 2015 6:52pm Jun 17, 2015 6:52pm
Quoting radityo.ardi
{quote} Yes. it will keep creating.

thanks... ironically this scenario became real during FOMC i am still "leaving" it running to see how it will "move forward"
  • #309
  • Edited 8:44pm Jun 17, 2015 8:26pm | Edited 8:44pm
Quoting KGP
{quote} 6) DONT BE GREEDY (simple as that)
That is the keyword I've been waiting for all of you....

But anyway, for real, don't be greedy. big spread doesn't mean it will not work. It will work, just that we need a wider gaps, bigger balance and less lot size. Of course the target / profit must be appropriate as well.
I was working with the broker with bigger spreads, it was still ok. Just that don't put big expectation with bigger spreads.

Quoting Trading88
{quote} I have 30 orders per side, is that too much? i am afraid to put only 10 and then they can not recreate more to as the price continues moving against my orders What is the real diference between limit and stop orders? thank u so much
limit = you expecting the market against your order
stop = you expecting the market is the same direction as your order

means, if you do buy limit and put 10 pips lower than the current price, you are expecting the price to go down 10 pips, once touched, you will expect market price will retract up (like U shape)
stop is otherwise.

As of now, you have to set as much as possible but don't sacrifice the performance. 30 - 50 I think still ideal enough.
If you ask me to code/fix your EA... it's probably not for free...
  • #310
  • Jun 17, 2015 8:35pm Jun 17, 2015 8:35pm
Quoting radityo.ardi
{quote} That is the keyword I've been waiting for all of you.... But anyway, for real, don't be greedy. big spread doesn't mean it will not work. It will work, just that we need a wider gaps, bigger balance and less lot size. Of course the target / profit must be appropriate as well. I was working with the broker with bigger spreads, it was still ok. Just that don't put big expectation with bigger spreads. {quote} limit = you expecting the market against your order stop = you expecting the market is the same direction as your order means, if...

well i didnt say it will not work with big spreads... but if you end up on a vicious cycle of recreational orders its going to end up in a nightmare (waiting for it to correct)... and thats without the spreads....

i am using a broker (demo) with big spreads, one with low and another one with "no" (minimal) but the latest with commission

but the kwd is that... the lowest the TP the more cycles (from what i understand so far) the better.. especially if the TP is completed 70-80% of days cycle without "hitting" more than one pending....


radityo.ardi could you please check the PM i sent you just now? thanks
  • #311
  • Jun 17, 2015 8:45pm Jun 17, 2015 8:45pm
Quoting IgotAplan
{quote} The type 2 must be excellent for whipsaw action. The problem in if a strong trend occurs next you will be hurt to. I am just passing some experience to help others, i did not like the result and will stop the EA on FOMC and NFP events. Better safe than sorry, this system looks profitable enough in other times.
can't understand type 2 either. But, if what you mean is LIMIT orders, it is best when there's no news or in off market hours. While STOP orders is the otherwise.

Quoting ajaysingghh
hi radityo.ardi, you are using GT 500 on M5 timeframe? thanks.
timeframe doesn't matter. Your grid step size and profit target matters
If you ask me to code/fix your EA... it's probably not for free...
  • #312
  • Jun 17, 2015 8:56pm Jun 17, 2015 8:56pm
Quoting slianto
{quote} I like the idea, this should be safer. or maybe until 12am SGT the market is still slow. I tempted to try this on live account too. GT1000 with "close when no open order" 00:00 - 12:00 WIB. so far I tried on demo 00:00 - 14:00 WIB also good.. the profit is okay. but most importantly i like the low drawdown the original GT1000 00:00 - 14:00 WIB on 5000$ demo account (run for a month): {image} GT1000 00:00 - 14:00 WIB with 500$ demo account. with "close when no open order" (run for 3 days) {image}
I'm in love to see that, maaan... very low drawdown and progressing better.

Is this the same settings as GT1000 or you modified it (of course other than the time parameter)?

Quoting slianto
{quote} because there will be some order still opened and yet another cycle is going to start but can't...
I suppose that is because of you are using the same unique number for 2 different EA. Probably the EA is confused.
If you ask me to code/fix your EA... it's probably not for free...
  • #313
  • Jun 17, 2015 9:02pm Jun 17, 2015 9:02pm
I am doing some backtests with dukascopy 99% data.I am testing from Jan/01/2015 till May/31/2015 , stop order .I found no matter GT500 settings and other custom settings, the account would doom between Feb.06 -- Feb.26 eventually.

I checked the daily chart ,found this:
Attached Image


So sideway market is fatel to stop order stategy.

I checked radityo's GT500 explorer,it starts from Mar/28.


Let's check daily chart,we can see market show middle trend since March:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Image2.png Size: 21 KB

What I try to say is,this stategy is still need to improve,especially on how to avoid get stuck or what to do if we get stuck.
I don't know anyone get the same test result,correct me if I am wrong.
Alyle
  • #314
  • Jun 17, 2015 9:22pm Jun 17, 2015 9:22pm
Quoting Alyle
I am doing some backtests with dukascopy 99% data.I am testing from Jan/01/2015 till May/31/2015 , stop order .I found no matter GT500 settings and other custom settings, the account would doom between Feb.06 -- Feb.26 eventually. I checked the daily chart ,found this: {image} So sideway market is fatel to stop order stategy. I checked radityo's GT500 explorer,it starts from Mar/28. Let's check daily chart,we can see market show middle trend since March: {image} What I try to say is,this stategy is still need to improve,especially on how to avoid...
I personally never trust 100% with backtest.
Backtest is actually meant for EA programmer to test whether their EA is executing correctly without having the needs to do real time trading, or waiting the price to break at some level which you would not be able to test when doing the code.

Here are the disadvantages of backtest in my opinion:
- can't simulate dynamic spreads (spreads can be dynamic depends on the market situation).
- can't simulate with commissions and swap
- Potential bug or something funny (I don't know)? At some timeframe, GT500 definitely will break like what you have seen. But, what I have found at Jan 2014 to June 2014, GT500 breaks due to the starting lot and target dynamic. If I set to Fixed all the time, it was fine.
- can't simulate the latency between your MT4 and broker's server
- can't simulate slippage (even forward testing with demo account, you can't simulate slippage)

But to me useful to find the best settings for this EA for some period of time.
If you ask me to code/fix your EA... it's probably not for free...
  • #315
  • Jun 17, 2015 9:40pm Jun 17, 2015 9:40pm
Alyle you are right and wrong at the same time... its the way and nature of how this works that no matter what sometime it will get "unstuck"... its what i mentioned about the high spreads+highswaps broker accounts... i have one right now stuck after the FOMC... the second unstuck approx 4-5hrs ago... and the third one i experimented a little bit (for example i placed my own orders to see how the system will behave etc) and i ended up "unstuck it" myself

as i mentioned above from what i sensed so far...you need NOT to be greedy ... moneymgt and profit/pip settings mgt is going to be very difficult... but i believe once done you just "let it run"... especially from what i saw today with a very dangerous day which was not one direction....


the issue for me is how it will work on a "live" account, because demo from their nature are working on an ideal environment... but on real accounts you have mt4 connection/disconnections (which can vary from a few times per day to whatever per few days)... connection speed (which can vary)...feed speed (especially on important days like this one sometimes can be sluggish)... not to mention about orders getting filled or closed when needed.... (and many other things)

so one has to find an ideal setup and get it more improved on a real account shall he/she decides to move it from demo to real...

and a broker selection should not be left at random
  • #316
  • Jun 17, 2015 10:11pm Jun 17, 2015 10:11pm
Thanks for you reply.To get it work on live account ,and which works for long term,is what I am trying to do.

A more question. If we have to unstuck manually, do you think there will be a proper time to do it,which will minimal the loss? eg 7 + negative orders , or price bounce back XX pips , or price get though initial price X times , all orders tiggered ? Just some disscus.

Quoting KGP
Alyle you are right and wrong at the same time... its the way and nature of how this works that no matter what sometime it will get "unstuck"... its what i mentioned about the high spreads+highswaps broker accounts... i have one right now stuck after the FOMC... the second unstuck approx 4-5hrs ago... and the third one i experimented a little bit (for example i placed my own orders to see how the system will behave etc) and i ended up "unstuck it" myself as i mentioned above from what i sensed so far...you need NOT to be greedy ... moneymgt and...
Alyle
  • #317
  • Jun 17, 2015 10:25pm Jun 17, 2015 10:25pm
Quoting slianto
{quote} I like the idea, this should be safer. or maybe until 12am SGT the market is still slow. I tempted to try this on live account too. GT1000 with "close when no open order" 00:00 - 12:00 WIB. so far I tried on demo 00:00 - 14:00 WIB also good.. the profit is okay. but most importantly i like the low drawdown the original GT1000 00:00 - 14:00 WIB on 5000$ demo account (run for a month): {image} GT1000 00:00 - 14:00 WIB with 500$ demo account. with "close when no open order" (run for 3 days) {image}

hi,

what order is this? limit or stop?
  • #318
  • Jun 17, 2015 10:49pm Jun 17, 2015 10:49pm
Quoting cyd09
{quote} hi, what order is this? limit or stop?
LIMIT orders.
If you ask me to code/fix your EA... it's probably not for free...
  • #319
  • Jun 17, 2015 10:50pm Jun 17, 2015 10:50pm
Quoting Alyle
Thanks for you reply.To get it work on live account ,and which works for long term,is what I am trying to do. A more question. If we have to unstuck manually, do you think there will be a proper time to do it,which will minimal the loss? eg 7 + negative orders , or price bounce back XX pips , or price get though initial price X times , all orders tiggered ? Just some disscus. {quote}
patience

thats all i would advise .... NOT to unstuck it yourself... it makes things worse and what i mean by that.... either
A) you close ALL orders (with the available on chart order) or
B) you place a sell/buy order as such on market...

both ways you stand to lose on
a) (based you dont close on a profit which you wouldnt because you shouldnt be in a "stuck" scenario)... so you close them at a loss....

b)
i)you need to have a positive impact (btw you have to close all orders + manually the one you placed as it will not close by the "force close all" but generally)

ii) you will end in an uncontrolled hedging environment (trapping gives you a controlled environment -as long as your broker allows hedging) and hedging is not a very easy thing to do.

as i said you need patience to "let the system run it self" as long as its needed sooner or later it will "untrap itself" (based on what i saw especially with FOMC)
out of 3 demos ... i mentioned above what happened.... the other one is still stuck but with little volatility either up or down it will find its way


overall my suggestion.... setup a low profit fixed or dynamic multiplier and a moderate lot multiplier (in case not fixed as well).... and "leave it"...


bare in mind above all on my experience and on demo... i am sure it will have issues on real account... but on the other hand there were issues on demo... just need a few trial and error once you get it work you just "leave it"....

does anyone has experiences on VPS? how they work, how you work with them .... any issues or reliability... what to look for what to avoid etc? i am clueless how VPS work in this sector (although i have experience with servers but not trading wise)
  • #320
  • Jun 17, 2015 11:13pm Jun 17, 2015 11:13pm
Quoting radityo.ardi
{quote} LIMIT orders.

could you please check this screenshot?

http://prntscr.com/7iad6m

last profit and actual last profit doesnt match...


also another question

what is "dynamic target"?
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