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  • #5,701
  • May 10, 2014 11:59pm May 10, 2014 11:59pm
Quoting jmn5611
@ BeyondPrice.... How is volume relevant in a market that has no volume? FX spot has no volume. Are you guys measuring tick movement? If so how does that correlate to the amount of money flowing to and from a particular price point? @ Ms Vega How do you measure the amount of time that price stays at a certain point? I get what you are saying, but how do you measure that in any meaningful way?

Research has shown that tick volume is right in the high 90s most of the time.If you look on your chart on the 4 hour char you would notice that the new york/london session has the highest tick activity all the time so that alone should prove that tick volume is good enough for trading. It's not exactly the same but it's more than sufficient for trading any type of volume analysis style.`
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #5,702
  • May 11, 2014 1:43am May 11, 2014 1:43am
start at 6:25

Inserted Video
Daytrader
  • #5,703
  • Edited 3:34am May 11, 2014 3:11am | Edited 3:34am
Quoting Beyondprice
How is volume relevant in a market that has no volume? FX spot has no volume ------------------------------------------ Just one sec... If FX spot has no volume, why would u use a POC? Do you understand what does POC mean? It's an important question if you want to understand what you are doing when you're profiling. MZvega, still waiting your answer.
Howdy,

Just to be clear. I have a sense that you have completely misunderstood the whole concept of of what Steidlmayer,'s 4 step process is all about, That is why you completely missed the explosive trend day that ensues. Case in point of your post here http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...39#post7450839.

Which you indicates you hate trending days. Why so? on the 5th of May given a basic understanding of the 4 steps process one could have ascertain that we have complete horizontal development. In, Steidlmayer's lingo it would mean very high price control. We are talking about 34 TPO across here, with low volatility, lower range & value area range. So what are the odds of market speeding up the next day & going vertical after such a pause? Now what a insight one could gain. Not forgetting we have 'P" or 3 step process on the 2nd of May leading to the 5th which make it step 4. AND not forgetting James Dalton exceptional rule of 3-i day you would have gather that we have a free exposure day on the 5th starting from NewYork session....oh wait you are too busy fading price extremes even when the playbook says otherwise.

Speaking of fading a trade. Your post here baffles me too http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...20#post7454220

So you have decided that this is a long for Silver. Why? right after you have a vertical down move with only 4 tpo across as shown in your chart. isn't it a late spike as per Dalton Or a downward minus development as per Steidlmayer. So this vertical move is only a step 1 of the 4 step process no?, Shouldn't one wait for at least a horizontal development & allow some form of price control & then decide where the market likely to go? So in fact right after you make the call on the 7th May, price goes horizontal for the next 2 days with POC shifting lower. Why assume such a risk when the playbook says otherwise, here again. Oh wait, because there was a LVN?

Speaking of LVN if anyone of you understood the work of Robin Mesch about Low Usage Area. Then you would guess that LVN acting as outright support would be as good s committing trading suicide.

I just want to be clear here. I am a skeptic. I do not subscribe to anything unless there is evidence or reference material that points to that direction, even coming from Mzvege whom being the most experience in this field (can't argue with that equity curve though). I strongly suggest to readers here of Market profile analysis or analytic whatever your like to call it. To check & ask question of the subject & make sure you read the books (Not a lot of books on this subject to be honest) & not to be wow by the incredible colorful chart. Get the basics right on the interpretation of Steidlmayer, Hawking, Dalton, Jones & Mesch. Don't be fool & get the balance right. (pun)

Else you would be wasting your time for years dodging around getting nowhere & still asking people to explain the meaning of POC.

& Good luck.

PS: All reference material is in the 1st post if you care to learn.
  • #5,704
  • May 11, 2014 4:28am May 11, 2014 4:28am
Quoting Beyondprice
{quote} You can write as much you want but Steidlmayer says that Volume is the new paradigm and you say that volume is irrelevant. ahaha {quote} Right...but your books...ooooooops {image} ahaha
the funny thing is, that any person with some mathematical background can see, that VPO is far more superior than TPO

But some senior members here can only follow religiously what other states, unable to reflect or comprehend, unable to develop a known method further for own benefit. Furthermore trying to shut down any discussion about it by citing the old sources over and over again.

but I have decided to let them struggle with their own limited mind.

Another funny thing is, that the same people can not even see, how the AMT pundits constantly contradict themself, and trying to make some things overcomplicated in order to sell their whole stuff, cour.ses etc. to the likes of MZVegas who are in desperate search of understanding of the created mess.
  • #5,705
  • May 11, 2014 4:40am May 11, 2014 4:40am
Quoting Beyondprice
{quote} IF there is no volume, your TPO-chart is useless AHAHAHAHAH It's just incredible. Infinitus, please if you read me, could you explain why TPO (time) should mean the same that volume. I can't to do it with my English's skill.
what shall I say? She is not willing to comprehend.

Most of the time tpo and vpo seem to produce very similar profiles. That may be often related to the fact, that the high volume movements happen in the most liquid times of the day.

but as you have so eloquently described over and over: when "strong" moves happen on low volume the Tpo and Vpo profiles will differ significantly and lead to wrong assumptions in case of Tpo
  • #5,706
  • May 11, 2014 5:18am May 11, 2014 5:18am
Quoting Beyondprice
But you are right when you're saying that we can't have real volumes on FX. You're right and I say the same thing. BUT there is solution : If you have a volume's broker data of quality, it could work. I know that because I'm using it. I'm not saying it's perfect but It's better than nothing. Like using Market Profile on MT4 : its not perfect at all, not at all but you can do your job quiet well and it's the most important.

Tick volume is a very good proxy for volume. There are some studies out for this, claiming that it has an accuracy of over 90%. you can find the studies in the attachemends of my various threads.

It is important, that you use a broker with a deep liquidity pool or at least a broker with broad custumer base.

When you access the Dukascopy historical quotes, you get even the real volume of their Swfx market place, which is one of the deepest liquidity pools worldwide.

I can not hear anymore this stupid noise, that you can only use some cleared volume, which of course you can only have through a paid subscription.

For me, MzVega seems to be clearly affiliated with this people.


TPO is a proxy for real volume
Tick-volume is a proxy for real volume

Price without volume means nothing

therefore

low volume zones on a chart are clearly most of the time strong rejection zones.



BTW:

every time MzVega gets cornered in, she tries to alter the subject slightly. At the end of such a discussion no one will notice, what the real topic was all about

she did this with me already a few month ago
  • #5,707
  • May 11, 2014 5:22am May 11, 2014 5:22am
Quoting infinitus
{quote} Price without volume means nothin
To you maybe


http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7nU7K5ixicY
Howlin' at the Moon on the Roof
  • #5,708
  • May 11, 2014 5:39am May 11, 2014 5:39am
Beyondprice,
can you post the .mq4 version of the indicators
thank you

Quoting Beyondprice
{image} {file}{file}{file}{file}{file}{file}{file}1420969{file}1420969 So, I've found what I was looking for MT4. Now, I can trade 100% on MT4 new broker's plateform. Thanks to all of you. Some ressources : https://www.mirusfutures.com/futures...inars/archives http://traderkingdom.com/market-prof...hived-webinars http://alexandertrading.com/wp/category/public-post/ http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/ Thank you again. See you soon EDIT : As you know, I'm not a MT4-expert....
  • #5,709
  • May 11, 2014 6:49am May 11, 2014 6:49am
Quoting lascavel
{quote} Howdy, Just to be clear. I have a sense that you have completely misunderstood the whole concept of of what Steidlmayer,'s 4 step process is all about, That is why you completely missed the explosive trend day that ensues. Case in point of your post here http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...39#post7450839. Which you indicates you hate trending days. Why so? on the 5th of May given a basic understanding of the 4 steps process one could have ascertain that we have complete horizontal development. In, Steidlmayer's lingo...

And I am sure you was eager to share your brilliant analyses with all of us here in FF beforehand it all hapened in order to gain credibility. Havn't you? Will you do so in future?
  • #5,710
  • May 11, 2014 6:53am May 11, 2014 6:53am
Quoting Wolf_Wicked
{quote} To you maybe http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7nU7K5ixicY

Sorry, can you explain what you tried to say with this posting as well the one you obviously deleted already?
  • #5,711
  • May 11, 2014 7:13am May 11, 2014 7:13am
Quoting infinitus
{quote} Sorry, can you explain what you tried to say with this posting as well the one you obviously deleted already?

Too slow cock hed,, listen to my vid, it's all there =P
Howlin' at the Moon on the Roof
  • #5,712
  • May 11, 2014 7:22am May 11, 2014 7:22am
Quoting Beyondprice
{quote} No, I have better idea. You do what it does work for you and that's all. You said that volume was irrelevant. I made my point, you were wong. {image} {image} Not bad for Volume's broker data.
Great replies as ever, but I fear she is not willing to even try to understand what you/we say.

Curious: even when Dalton FEELS, that TPO is the better way, it means nothing. Sometimes we have all great feelings, havn't we?

A price level can be defended with huge volume at a LVN. That is why we call it stopping volume. You can see such volume best on small TF. Do we notice this with TPO?

When Dalton says, that a level/price is meaningless, when it is not supported by time is complete nonsense.

Traders trade volume at a a given price. Who trades time?
  • #5,713
  • May 11, 2014 8:30am May 11, 2014 8:30am
Just to be clear. I have a sense that you have completely misunderstood the whole concept of of what Steidlmayer,'s 4 step process is all about, That is why you completely missed the explosive trend day that ensues. Case in point of your post here http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...39#post7450839.
-----------------------------


Looooool, I've posted earlier some PDF's article where Steidlmayer explains the 4 step of process, I think I know.

Quote
Which you indicates you hate trending days. Why so? on the 5th of May given a basic understanding of the 4 steps process one could have ascertain that we have complete horizontal development. In, Steidlmayer's lingo it would mean very high price control. We are talking about 34 TPO across here, with low volatility, lower range & value area range. So what are the odds of market speeding up the next day & going vertical after such a pause? Now what a insight one could gain. Not forgetting we have 'P" or 3 step process on the 2nd of May...


I'm sorry but you wrote bullshit.

At first, you don't know my strategy and it's the problem. Not your fault but just look sth:

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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You don't know what is trading horizon. I'm not really looking daily profile. In fact, I always trade balanced area for few days. I visualize the weekly profile so you're talking about buyer's control : wasn't the case on the weekly profile.

When you have trendings'day or weeks, I lost money.

But are there more brackets or trending weeks/days? HHHHH

Quote
have a vertical down move with only 4 tpo across as shown in your chart. isn't it a late spike as per Dalton Or a downward minus development as per Steidlmayer. So this vertical move is only a step 1 of the 4 step process no?, Shouldn't one wait for at least a horizontal development & allow some form of price control & then decide where the market likely to go?


ahahahaha

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: screen2.PNG Size: 63 KB


http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...02#post7432102


Where IS STEP2? ahaha

Anyway , you have to understand that there is no rule. Only yours. I want to get the best price possible in order to have really good risk/reward. That's why I fade by an agressive way.
  • #5,714
  • May 11, 2014 8:37am May 11, 2014 8:37am
Quoting infinitus
{quote} the funny thing is, that any person with some mathematical background can see, that VPO is far more superior than TPO But some senior members here can only follow religiously what other states, unable to reflect or comprehend, unable to develop a known method further for own benefit. Furthermore trying to shut down any discussion about it by citing the old sources over and over again. but I have decided to let them struggle with their own limited mind. Another funny thing is, that the same people can not even see, how the AMT pundits...

Exactly.

They think Holy-Grail is in AMT. Not at all.

There is no systematic strategy, it's a entire concept that you have personnalize as a trader to make money.

If you want to follow the trend, if you want to be contrarian, if you want to be agressive, a daytrader, scalper, swinger, short-term, etc.

It's the trader's decision. It's just probability.

Can you have an EDGE or NOT? It's the only question matters.
  • #5,715
  • May 11, 2014 8:54am May 11, 2014 8:54am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} Research has shown that tick volume is right in the high 90s most of the time.If you look on your chart on the 4 hour char you would notice that the new york/london session has the highest tick activity all the time so that alone should prove that tick volume is good enough for trading. It's not exactly the same but it's more than sufficient for trading any type of volume analysis style.`

Quote
Tick volume is a very good proxy for volume. There are some studies out for this, claiming that it has an accuracy of over 90%. you can find the studies in the attachemends of my various threads.

It is important, that you use a broker with a deep liquidity pool or at least a broker with broad custumer base.

When you access the Dukascopy historical quotes, you get even the real volume of their Swfx market place, which is one of the deepest liquidity pools worldwide.

I can not hear anymore this stupid noise, that you can only use some cleared volume,...


Ok thanks to you both.

I'll look to your files attached.
  • #5,716
  • May 11, 2014 9:23am May 11, 2014 9:23am
Hi Beyondprice, I'm very interested in volume, could you attach your template? thanks.
  • #5,717
  • Edited 9:48am May 11, 2014 9:34am | Edited 9:48am
Quoting infinitus
{quote}Price without volume means nothing
Take it easy with such a sentence you would start world war 3 in here. Even though I agree, and it's how I got into trading, some guys seems to be able to trade Price Action and do fine. The most interesting thing though is that most of the best ones advocate trading only on higher time frames, and some of the best ones trade on the 4 hour time frame. Without knowing it, the 4 hour time frame almost always have the 4 forex session, each session has more volume than the next, so they are helped by volume in their analysis more than they would like to acknowledge. I can trade the 4 hour chart with the same or without volume on the chart, because each session has more volume than the next, ending with the london/new york overlap.
Being a trader is lonely, but being a great trader is lonelier still
  • #5,718
  • May 11, 2014 9:36am May 11, 2014 9:36am
Quoting rostaus
Hi Beyondprice, I'm very interested in volume, could you attach your template? thanks.

Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl amtspotwhite.tpl   939 KB | 543 downloads
  • #5,719
  • May 11, 2014 9:45am May 11, 2014 9:45am
Quoting saneblane
{quote} Take it easy with such a sentence you would start world war 3 in here. Even though I agree, and it's how I got into trading, some guys seems to be able to trade Price Action and do fine. The most interesting thing though is that most of the best ones advocate trading only on higher time frames, and some of the best ones trade on the 4 hour time frame. Without knowing it, the 4 hour time frame almost always have the 4 forex session, each session has more volume than the next, so they are helped by volume in their analysis more than...

You know some people can live 100 years, some people need two months to learn piano, others speak 10 differents languages.


There are price action-traders who make a lot of money. But they have a natural's understanding of the value when they look price only. It's a "gift".

For the others like me, there is Market Profile wich shows value (Volume and price).

A price action trader tries to anticipate future value by using price. A profiler tries to anticipate future value by using actual value (volume and price).
  • #5,720
  • May 11, 2014 2:02pm May 11, 2014 2:02pm
Quoting Beyondprice
How is volume relevant in a market that has no volume? FX spot has no volume. Are you guys measuring tick movement? If so how does that correlate to the amount of money flowing to and from a particular price point? ------------------------------------------- No volume? If there is no volume, It means there is no transaction. You're making a confusion between Volume and Volume's data. Volume's data is provided by your broker...and It's work pretty well! (depends on the broker)
I am not trying to be combative, I am just trying to understand how a trader could use volume in a decentralized market? Two determined nano lot traders could generate all kinds of "volume" if you are measuring changes in tick values. It has nothing to do with money flow.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
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