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Auction Market Theory and Market Profile

  • #5,661
  • May 7, 2014 5:05pm May 7, 2014 5:05pm
Quote
Thats the beauty of Auction Market Value Analysis, it's volume "independent" in tick based markets.
AMVT Analysis in tick based markets uses TPO’s as a measure of demand. The only time volume is used in analysis is to determined if yesterdays volume was greater or less than the previous day. Thats it.
In Auction Market Value Analytics the market is viewed as a continuum, a flow through time.......... volume is irrelevant

Can't understand how is it possible to write someting like that when Profile's creator explaisn that Profile's methode was made to visualize Volume without having data's realtime.

Don't understand how someone is not able to discuss and debate without crying and blocking other's opinion.

Anyway, it was pleasure and thanks to all of you for your great help with MT4's indicator.
  • #5,662
  • May 7, 2014 10:51pm May 7, 2014 10:51pm
Stedilemayor used TPOS as a proxy for volume. However volume is skewed at open (session) and close. Taking the concept of balance and imbalance, may be volume is not necessary if one is using an approach with balance area and vertical area.
  • #5,663
  • May 9, 2014 3:19am May 9, 2014 3:19am
Quoting Beyondprice
{image} {file}{file}{file}{file}{file}{file}{file}1420969{file}1420969 So, I've found what I was looking for MT4. Now, I can trade 100% on MT4 new broker's plateform. Thanks to all of you. Some ressources : https://www.mirusfutures.com/futures...inars/archives http://traderkingdom.com/market-prof...hived-webinars http://alexandertrading.com/wp/category/public-post/ http://www.amsterdamtrader.com/ Thank you again. See you soon EDIT : As you know, I'm not a MT4-expert....
Hi Bro, Do you mind share what's the name of the indicator on the left and right of your chart? Thanks a lot.
The only winner is the one who survive the longest...
  • #5,664
  • May 10, 2014 11:11am May 10, 2014 11:11am
“Steidlmayer on Markets Trading with Market Profile” 2nd edition Chapter 7 page 106
“Understanding Volume @ Time”, read it look at the formula, you’ll see he does not use Volume “at price”. (Volume profile)

Steps in Interpreting Volume @ Time page 114 same thing.
“Steidlmayer on Markets Trading with Market Profile” 2nd edition page 25
Price + time= value

He did not say time = volume
Anything plotted “at price” is governed by “chronological time”

For all the Steildmayer fans, here’s a video 2 years after “the strips” video, dated Oct 2013.
He isn’t using a “volume @ price” histogram. Never has. If you watch the “strips” video he didn’t use a volume histogram (profile) either. He used volume, as a “string literal”. Not a picture of it. Nor did he mentioned “volume @ price”

He still uses & analyzes TPO’s. He does not, and has never traded a “volume profile”. All he trades is Price & Time.
Listen carefully, he never even mentions the concept of “volume”, or even uses the word “volume”.
“Price + time= value”

00:26:00
“If your trading a profile based on “chronological time” you’re not getting the information you need to flow………”

https://connectpro58377496.adobeconn...launcher=false

In Auction Market Value Analytics the market is viewed as a continuum, a flow through time.......... volume is irrelevant
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,665
  • May 10, 2014 12:14pm May 10, 2014 12:14pm
Quoting kinspk
{quote} Hi Bro, Do you mind share what's the name of the indicator on the left and right of your chart? Thanks a lot.
Hi,

TPO_Range V3 and +TPO
  • #5,666
  • May 10, 2014 12:15pm May 10, 2014 12:15pm
http://www.tradingetanalyse.com/publ...me-Profile.cfm

Even dady said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • #5,667
  • May 10, 2014 12:26pm May 10, 2014 12:26pm

  1. Analyzing volume and price
  2. ---> How the influence of supply (volume) effecting price is the new paradigm <----

​http://www.cmegroup.com/education/st...ips-video.html

"Volume: The Key to Understanding Today's Market"

http://www.cmegroup.com/education/vo...ys-market.html

But you know a Senior-member called Mzevega (Who is he?) says :

Quote
In Auction Market Value Analytics the market is viewed as a continuum, a flow through time.......... volume is irrelevant


ahahah
  • #5,668
  • May 10, 2014 12:30pm May 10, 2014 12:30pm
Quote
"Volume Strips" were called "Laser Lines" in Steidlmayer's book that was referenced above. I coined the term "High Volume Node" years ago and that is basically what "Volume Strips" are - areas of relatively high volume on the horizontal scale.
Quote
It is the migration of these "High Volume Nodes" that determine the trend of a market in any time frame. Because the auction process is in effect in all degrees of time all the time, one is able to see the migration of value in the smaller degrees of time prior to the "break" of a larger degree auction...

- See more at: http://www.cqgforums.com/discussion/....GrxyjcWN.dpuf

You know, Senior-member knows everything , right?
  • #5,669
  • May 10, 2014 12:49pm May 10, 2014 12:49pm
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Quote
volume is irrelevant


Mzvega, Auction Market senior-member
  • #5,670
  • May 10, 2014 12:56pm May 10, 2014 12:56pm
Quoting Beyondprice
http://www.tradingetanalyse.com/publ...me-Profile.cfm Even dady said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“Steidlmayer on Markets Trading with Market Profile” 2nd edition Chapter 7 page 73-75
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
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Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,671
  • May 10, 2014 1:09pm May 10, 2014 1:09pm
What are you trying to say?

You are trying that TPO could be useful? Fine, no one say the opposite.

My only point is about your stupid sentence :
Quote
volume is irrelevant



You're wrong about it as my links proved.

If TPO's could be using? Great Captain Obvious. I know that, I'm using it everyday.

What's next? Is sky blue? Is New-York in America?
  • #5,672
  • May 10, 2014 1:10pm May 10, 2014 1:10pm
Quoting Beyondprice
Analyzing volume and price ---> How the influence of supply (volume) effecting price is the new paradigm <---- ​http://www.cmegroup.com/education/st...ips-video.html "Volume: The Key to Understanding Today's Market" http://www.cmegroup.com/education/vo...ys-market.html But you know a Senior-member called Mzevega (Who is he?) says : {quote} ahahah
That video is over 2 years old,

Steidlmayer Masters of Change October 2013 video:
https://connectpro58377496.adobeconn...launcher=false
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Click to Enlarge Name: Steidlmayar Masters of change.JPG Size: 43 KB
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,673
  • May 10, 2014 1:12pm May 10, 2014 1:12pm

  1. [quote]How the influence of supply (volume) effecting price is the new paradigm[/quote]



You can write as much you want but Steidlmayer says that Volume is the new paradigm and you say that volume is irrelevant. ahaha


Quote
That video is over 2 years old,

Right...but your books...ooooooops

Attached Image



ahaha
  • #5,674
  • May 10, 2014 1:15pm May 10, 2014 1:15pm
Quoting Beyondprice
{image} {quote} Mzvega, Auction Market senior-member
TPO is a "Measure" of volume. Finish the sentence, it doesn't say it EQUALS========== volume
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: TPO.JPG Size: 35 KB
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,675
  • May 10, 2014 1:20pm May 10, 2014 1:20pm
Quoting Beyondprice
{quote} You can write as much you want but Steidlmayer says that Volume is the new paradigm and you say that volume is irrelevant. ahaha {quote} Right...but your books...ooooooops {image} ahaha
If you dont want to listen to the "Words" out of his mouth, then read his lips..................
How many times does he use the word volume???


Steidlmayer Masters of Change October 2013 video:
https://connectpro58377496.adobeconn...launcher=false
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,676
  • May 10, 2014 1:20pm May 10, 2014 1:20pm
Quote
TPO is a "Measure" of volume. Finish the sentence, it doesn't say it EQUALS========== volume

No, it doesn't. And as Tom Alexanderexplains in his video that I sent you, TPO was created as volume's-proxi.

Thanks to the TPO concept, you can get a picture of volume , so you can know where is acceptance and where is not. So, that's all about volume from the begining.

By "considering" (dont know if it does exist in english) time you can get a picture of volume distribution and that's why it's a great concept.

BUT YOU say that Volume is irrelevant and Jer21 (he seems to be in love with) said that AMT is not about volume...How is funny?
  • #5,677
  • May 10, 2014 1:24pm May 10, 2014 1:24pm
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Quote
If you dont want to listen to the "Words" out of his mouth, then read his lips..................
How many times does he use the word volume???
​
  • #5,678
  • Edited 3:26pm May 10, 2014 2:20pm | Edited 3:26pm
Quoting Beyondprice
{image} {quote}​
Based on "volume ANALYSIS", that means you have to actually "do something with it", other than just "look" at a picture of it!

That doesn't explain "HOW" he's using volume, If you actually READ some of his books, you can see
He used "VOLUME @ TIME"

not a "volume @ Price" histogram

"This method is a quoter tick based analysis, generating TPOs from tick “ranges" and using TPO “counts” to measure demand." -Don Jones Cisco-Futures
This doesnt say it it equals= volume. Its a way to measure demand. Its doesn't say that it "is" demand

"In Value Analytics the market is viewed as a continuum, a flow through time. Profile variables are analyzed for their change over time, their relative values, rather than the less useful absolute numbers used in regular profile analysis" - Don Jones Cisco-Futures

Tom Alexander is a student of Don Jones Cisco-Futures

Tom Alexander: Well, because 25 years ago, I was like every other trader, and I was looking at everything under the sun and all the magic and all the numerology that's involved in the market, and none of it had really any kind of statistical rigor behind it. And I first became familiar with market profile, which is the brainchild of an ex-floor trader named Peter Steidlmayer. Steidlmayer was on the floor for years and he visualizes the concept of how the market develops and basically that bell-shaped type of thing when he was on the floor. And it was very, very popular in the middle to late '80s. As it turned out, nobody could really trade it the way Steidlmayer was articulating the concept. But through the years, I continued to search and to study market profile because it was very, very different than most of your price-based stuff out there, all the oscillators and Fib stuff and Elliott wave and Gann, and all the magic that everybody seems to gravitate to. Long story short, there is a guy named Don Jones. Don is actually a scientist, he's a physicist, and I came across Don's work and he has done some incredibly profound research that furthered Steidlmayer's qualitative ideas and quantified, improved an edge. And that's what I continued to trade and research myself to this day, as Don does. Don and I became friends and it's very unique especially in the retail domain that there is something with some semblance of rigor behind it because to my knowledge there's nothing else out there in the retail domain that has any rigor behind it whatsoever."
http://www.moneyshow.com/articles.as...8-31127&page=4
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,679
  • Edited 2:51pm May 10, 2014 2:38pm | Edited 2:51pm
“In Auction Market Value Analytics"
Value area defined as including central 70% of TPOs
Comment: The value area of the "Market Profile" is defined as the central 70% of cleared volume in the CBOT publications*.

The Meta-Profile or Tick-TPO Profile in the CISCO publications defines value as the central 70% of "TPO counts". The TPO Value-Area calculation appears in "Mind Over Markets" (p333) without attribution to its source (CISCO) and without pointing out that without it, value could only be calculated for CBOT markets (the only source of cleared volume).
*Discussed in detail on CISCO website"
In its entirety
www.ciscofutures.com/marketsinprofile.html

Without the use of TPO’s value area can not be calculated for any other market other than CBOT.
This is FX its not Volume based, that's why tpo's are used.

So yes, for Auction Market Value Theroy & Analysis, the use of volume is irrelevant. All you use is TPO’s………………..
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #5,680
  • May 10, 2014 3:28pm May 10, 2014 3:28pm
Quote
Based on "volume ANALYSIS",

That doesn't explain "HOW" he's using volume, If you actually READ some of his books, you can see
He used "VOLUME @ TIME"

not a "volume @ Price" histogram

It's explained in this video :

http://www.tradingetanalyse.com/publ...me-Profile.cfm

and here again :

""Volume Strips" were called "Laser Lines" in Steidlmayer's book that was referenced above. I coined the term "High Volume Node" years ago and that is basically what "Volume Strips" are - areas of relatively high volume on the horizontal scale."


Tom Alexander explains it's the same.

You're wrong as I said.

Quote
"This method is a quoter
Quote
tick based analysis, generating TPOs from tick “ranges" and using TPO “counts” to measure demand." -Don Jones Cisco-Futures
This doesnt say it it equals= volume. Its a way to measure demand. Its doesn't say that it "is" demand

THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING FROM THE BEGINING : TPO is just a way to measure volume. It's just a proxy like TOM ALEXANDER explained.

Do you understand that price * volume = VALUE ?

And because volume = time, we can use TPO as a proxy? DO U GET IT?

But do you understand WHY volume = time at first?


LOOOOOOOL Don Jone is writing that value is about volume. AHAHAH

But Mzvega :
Quote
e.......... volume is irrelevant


Attached Image


Quote
Without the use of TPO’s value area can not be calculated for any other market other than CBOT.
This is FX its not Volume based, that's why tpo's are used.


AGAIN?

I've already made point about that. Because of the poor activity of some session, your TPO chart is wrong.

1/You can get the volume data of your broker. It's not perfect at all as I explained but you can work with it.

2/ Or you have to re-consider your TPO chart


BUT FOR THE LAST TIME, IT'S ALL ABOUT VOLUME.

STEIDLMAYER SAYs :

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: Capture.PNG Size: 152 KB


DON JONES SAYS :

Attached Image


TOM ALEXANDER SAYS :

Inserted Video



Ok so I'm getting tired. Market Profile's creator and experts are talking about volume the all time but :

Mzvega, a no-name trader says
Quote
"volume is irrelevant"


And his geatest supporter called Jer21 said :

Quote
Because "HVN&LVN nodes" has nothing to do with auction process its a totally different subject


I'd like to speak english better to make my point. In any case, It's all about volume. You're saying the opposite. I'm right, you're wrong.

You could be wrong. Not my problem but I can't understand why you keep posting Cisco's content that you don't even understand yourself.

TPO is just proxy to understand the value when we CANT have access to real's volume data. I mean, you are a senior-member (!) , you read books about Market Profile, you watch videos about market profile since when? 1 year, 2 years, 3, maybe more?

AND you tell me that's "Volume is irrelevant" ? You're a joke seriously.
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