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  • #4,881
  • Sep 17, 2011 12:33pm Sep 17, 2011 12:33pm
Quoting MidKnight
Hi there,

This is due to some great (sarcasm) US regulation that was recently brought about. My brokers do the same thing (Oanda US division and Interactive Brokers). The only solution is to use a non-US broker. Oanda's Singapore division do not impose such a requirement and I may transfer over my Oanda account to their division. Like you, I find it a pain. One way to work around it is to do your entries of different lot sizes. For example with Oanda you can trade as small as $1 positions, so you may do sizes of 100,00 100,001 100,002 etc... per...
I'm not exactly sure what you mean in the last part of your post but this really is a pain in the ass. I'm going to call FXCM UK and see this isn't a problem with them. To be honest it worries me to put my money in Europe with all these financial troubles...
Twitter: @zusch_ -- Preselecting trending pairs, stocks on a weekly basis.
  • #4,882
  • Sep 17, 2011 2:00pm Sep 17, 2011 2:00pm
Quoting zusch
I'm not exactly sure what you mean in the last part of your post but this really is a pain in the ass. I'm going to call FXCM UK and see this isn't a problem with them. To be honest it worries me to put my money in Europe with all these financial troubles...

hallo,

its about the "FIFO" (first in first out) rule. brokers are forced to apply this rule to all american customers. its totaly contrary to the millipede idea, e.g. you have 2 positions of 1000 short eur/usd, the fist pos. is in profit but the second is going to make you a loss you cant close the second position without closing the first position. its totaly braindead, but its a new law in the US. the workaround is to open positions with diferent ammounts like 1000, 1001, 1002, then you are able to close positions the way you like. but this works only at brokers like oanda, where you are not constrained to fixed lot sizes. i migrate my oanda account to europe where the fifo rule is irrelevant.
  • #4,883
  • Sep 17, 2011 3:03pm Sep 17, 2011 3:03pm
Quoting alpiner
hallo,

its about the "FIFO" (first in first out) rule. brokers are forced to apply this rule to all american customers. its totaly contrary to the millipede idea, e.g. you have 2 positions of 1000 short eur/usd, the fist pos. is in profit but the second is going to make you a loss you cant close the second position without closing the first position. its totaly braindead, but its a new law in the US. the workaround is to open positions with diferent ammounts like 1000, 1001, 1002, then you are able to close positions the way you like. but this...
open positions with diferent ammounts like1000,1001,1002, then you are able to close positions......

This could be done with interactive brokers also for position size over 25000 on idealpro.if you dont care about pricing, one could use their IDEAL. Not sure if this 'workaround' is applicable only to oanda though. Also, with some mt4 brokers, could you not close positions in any order? Some of them (ibfx,citifx) handle this is their back office system. The real question is....whether this back office feature affects our long term profitability?? I dont think it differs by a whole lot.
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,884
  • Sep 19, 2011 3:13pm Sep 19, 2011 3:13pm
Quoting VEEFX
The real question is....whether this back office feature affects our long term profitability?? I dont think it differs by a whole lot.
No I believe it does not affect our profitability but for the sake of stat keeping and position management it becomes a bit more complicated. I've been trying to design a spreadsheet to help me with this. I know I'm missing a lot of parts to it and if there is an Excel gurus here that would be willing to help me with it I'm sure some readers here would find it useful.

I'd like to develop it to the point where my equity is the same on both my platform and Excel. Then I can use it as a double check as well.
Attached File(s)
File Type: xls milipedetrademanager1.xls   42 KB | 970 downloads
Twitter: @zusch_ -- Preselecting trending pairs, stocks on a weekly basis.
  • #4,885
  • Edited 8:29pm Sep 19, 2011 7:14pm | Edited 8:29pm
Quoting zusch
No I believe it does not affect our profitability but for the sake of stat keeping and position management it becomes a bit more complicated. I've been trying to design a spreadsheet to help me with this. I know I'm missing a lot of parts to it and if there is an Excel gurus here that would be willing to help me with it I'm sure some readers here would find it useful.

I'd like to develop it to the point where my equity is the same on both my platform and Excel. Then I can use it as a double check as well.
I am planning to post some 'future' discussions which includes what you are trying to accomplish.i have not looked at your spreadsheet as I am on my mobile device but if it requires manual entry of trades, it is a royal pain in the a@#. I did that with IBKR for the longest possible time. I got sick of it to a point thar I have been thinking of dumping my broker since last year.....still with them but not for long..i will be moving either to oanda now that they have mt4 or with citifxpro.

Check out citifxfro....they have all the feattures you require to implement this strategy. Hint: any broker that closes all open positions upon margin call is just bad. A legit broker should only close profitable positionsi only to recover their required margin and allow us to quicky fund the account via wire transfer . citiifxpro is the only broker that I know of that allow hedging, close any position in any order and reputable for US customers. Citi's spreads are just horrible though.

The solution I implemented earlier this year is automated in excel and could work with any mt4 broker. If there is a way to import trades in demo from a non_ mt4 broker, that would be sweet. I will share it here once it is in decent shape.
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,886
  • Sep 19, 2011 7:30pm Sep 19, 2011 7:30pm
Quoting VEEFX
I am planning to post some 'future' discussions which includes what you are trying to accomplish.i have looked at your spreadsheet but if it requires manual entry of trades, it is a royal pain in the a@#. I did that with IBKR for the longest possible time. I got sick of it to a point thar I have been thinking of dumping my broker since last year.....still with them but not for long..i will be moving either to oanda now that they have mt4 or with citifxpro.

Check out citifxfro....they have all the feattures you require to implement this strategy....
And while we are on the topic of brokers, nteractive brokers does not guarantee any stop loss orders...a.huge pitfal in regards to risk management. Not sure if folks are aware of this.
Weekend gaps can burn us without this......probably the main reason why I prefer oanda.
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,887
  • Sep 20, 2011 2:25am Sep 20, 2011 2:25am
Quoting VEEFX
And while we are on the topic of brokers, nteractive brokers does not guarantee any stop loss orders...a.huge pitfal in regards to risk management. Not sure if folks are aware of this.
Weekend gaps can burn us without this......probably the main reason why I prefer oanda.
I don't think any direct access broker can guarantee your stop loss, it is because the stop loss order is being turned into a market order when price reaches that level and if there's nobody to take the other side of your trade then price will gap until it finds supply or demand (as the case may be) to fill your order. This is real world trading ... however if the broker is what they call a "bucket shop" and is on the other side of your trade, they might guarantee your stop-loss, but you are trading in a box setup by that respective broker.

Either way, I wouldn't be worried about stop-loss being guaranteed or not, it's your responsability to manage your risk not your broker's.
  • #4,888
  • Sep 20, 2011 2:16pm Sep 20, 2011 2:16pm
Quoting zusch
No I believe it does not affect our profitability but for the sake of stat keeping and position management it becomes a bit more complicated. I've been trying to design a spreadsheet to help me with this.
I spent about four months keeping a Google spreadsheet. I'm with FXCM so I had to manually copy every position from the FXCM trade report into the spreadsheet.

Manually data entry gets pretty boring darn fast.

It was very handy to have. If you click the link you can see the various data points I kept track of for each currency pair: diversification target, win/loss ratios, etc.

I eventually had enough and decided to write some code to do everything that the spreadsheet was doing. I have a very basic version of it up and running. When I have some time I might even make the UI look like something that isn't a 1980s terminal output.
  • #4,889
  • Sep 20, 2011 3:33pm Sep 20, 2011 3:33pm
Quoting HornedGod
I spent about four months keeping a Google spreadsheet. I'm with FXCM so I had to manually copy every position from the FXCM trade report into the spreadsheet.

Manually data entry gets pretty boring darn fast.

It was very handy to have. If you click the link you can see the various data points I kept track of for each currency pair: diversification target, win/loss ratios, etc.

I eventually had enough and decided to write some code...
WOW. I looked the the spreadsheet. You are losing so many pips at the moment. Does it include the floating profit? You must be trading at a pretty low leverage to be still okay with it.

I am going through one of those phases where I keep getting BE's and small losses. The small losses are adding up fast.
  • #4,890
  • Sep 20, 2011 3:57pm Sep 20, 2011 3:57pm
Quoting Eklavya
WOW. I looked the the spreadsheet. You are losing so many pips at the moment. Does it include the floating profit? You must be trading at a pretty low leverage to be still okay with it.
Those trades were from a four month period - September 2010 to January 2011. I was indeed burning through a lot of pips and trades. It does not include any open trades I still had at the time; I think there were three with about 1000 pips of unrealised profit. Two of those eventually died at breakeven; I still have 1 EUR/USD long from 1.2665 opened on 9/9/2010.

I was getting burned out and just over trading focusing on the 5 minute charts for entry opportunities.

I took a break and spent six months focusing on getting better entries. I did this by scalping off a 30 second chart for an hour each morning. I didn't make it as a profitable scalper (not that I wouldn't have minded that but it wasn't the primary goal). I did learn a lot of price action and what setups I like and make sense to me.

I've been back trading the millipede way for the last month and seem to be having more success with it this time. I've dropped EUR/CHF. I take entries off the 4 hour chart and give entries a little breathing room before culling them. I've had 344 pips in losses so far (off 4 losing trades, 22 break even trades), but have 2900 pips in unrealized profit (off 13 open positions). I guess my timing was good, getting short on EUR/USD & GBP/USD at just the right time. I have a little way to go to get back to being breakeven overall, but I'm happy to take my time and just trade consistently from here on out if at all possible.
  • #4,891
  • Sep 20, 2011 4:26pm Sep 20, 2011 4:26pm
here's a "stop" hunter for ya
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  • #4,892
  • Sep 20, 2011 9:06pm Sep 20, 2011 9:06pm
Quoting cameron1st
I don't think any direct access broker can guarantee your stop loss, it is because the stop loss order is being turned into a market order when price reaches that level and if there's nobody to take the other side of your trade then price will gap until it finds supply or demand (as the case may be) to fill your order. This is real world trading ... however if the broker is what they call a "bucket shop" and is on the other side of your trade, they might guarantee your stop-loss, but you are trading in a box setup by that respective broker.

Either...
Hey Cam,

I deeply understand the market mechanics between direct access broker and MMs and the slippage associated with stop loss orders. As you mentioned, SL turns into a market order so any broker must/should execute the SL order at whatever price is available in their order book. IB does not guarantee 'execution'... period! It happened to me once in 2010 where my SL just sat in their order book for more than 30 hours while market moved 200+ pips away causing huge floating losses. It was a 5 lot position that I will never forget

I don't believe anyone has brought this up so here it is... we all know Stop Loss orders are integral part of risk management used by Graeme. I agree, it is our responsibility to manage risk but we are also dependent on our broker's ability to 'execute' SL as whatever price is available. If you cannot rely on your broker, then it is pointless to set SL to BE and consider that trade as risk-free and manage exposure based on the presumption. One way (and perhaps the only way I can think of) is to use cellphone price alerts set at each break-even level to confirm if your SL was triggered by your broker but that is just too many alerts to handle imo.

There are also certain technological risks that one can only mitigate but not completely avoid unless you have deep pockets.

Wonder how many folks had long CHF positions and got burnt with the recent action by SNB. I want to address another 'risk' with this strategy that I plan to clarify this weekend. It relates more to money management.
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,893
  • Sep 20, 2011 9:36pm Sep 20, 2011 9:36pm
Quoting tenthman
here's a "stop" hunter for ya
Wow, that never hit my data feed (IBFX).
  • #4,894
  • Sep 21, 2011 1:40am Sep 21, 2011 1:40am
Quoting MidKnight
Wow, that never hit my data feed (IBFX).

I got the same bar on my Oanda feed but nothing even close on my GFT feed, interesting
  • #4,895
  • Edited 2:10am Sep 21, 2011 1:59am | Edited 2:10am
Quoting VEEFX
Hey Cam,
I deeply understand the market mechanics between direct access broker and MMs and the slippage associated with stop loss orders. As you mentioned, SL turns into a market order so any broker must/should execute the SL order at whatever price is available in their order book. IB does not guarantee 'execution'... period! It happened to me once in 2010 where my SL just sat in their order book for more than 30 hours while market moved 200+ pips away causing huge floating losses. It was a 5 lot position that I will never forget
Hi Vee,

I actually don't trade FX with IB, but other instruments, like Futures. I sometimes use Currency Futures to hedge against a spot position (btw: this is how you can take longs and shorts on EURUSD in the same account, you can take long EURUSD in spot, and short EU Futures) and haven't had any SL problems with them so far.

Interesting what they say about stop-loss orders for FX though (but on other pages they mention having stop orders for FX, so not sure which is accurate):

http://www.interactivebrokers.com/en...on/faqs/fx.php
  • #4,896
  • Sep 21, 2011 2:09pm Sep 21, 2011 2:09pm
Quoting tenthman
here's a "stop" hunter for ya
Hi tenthman...

Thats why I stopped using demo accounts. I used to test many EA's on demo, then when I saw a spike like that that did not show up on my live account - I stopped testing EA's on demo's because such spikes render all testing on demo inaccurate (ea or not).

I now do not use ea's at all and I only trade on a live account. IMHO demo accounts are best used ONLY for learning how to place and manage trades with your account holder.




Ease on

Dan
  • #4,897
  • Sep 21, 2011 2:14pm Sep 21, 2011 2:14pm
Quoting tenthman
here's a "stop" hunter for ya
I hate these stops hunts. This one shook me out of two short positions, one at a loss.


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  • #4,898
  • Sep 21, 2011 5:04pm Sep 21, 2011 5:04pm
Quoting Eklavya
I hate these stops hunts. This one shook me out of two short positions, one at a loss.
That wasn't a stop hunt. That was the market digesting today's FOMC statement.

The USD/CHF spike yesterday wasn't stop hunting either. According to EBS it was a fat fingered trade (i.e. someone inputted the wrong trade).
  • #4,899
  • Sep 22, 2011 11:07am Sep 22, 2011 11:07am
Quoting HornedGod
That wasn't a stop hunt. That was the market digesting today's FOMC statement.

The USD/CHF spike yesterday wasn't stop hunting either. According to EBS it was a fat fingered trade (i.e. someone inputted the wrong trade).
Agree
  • #4,900
  • Sep 25, 2011 2:20pm Sep 25, 2011 2:20pm
Quoting pipEASY
Good morning, Zlatko

Good question.

It is your responsibility to keep the flow and the health of your millipede growing. This is one of the easier tasks.

I would never close all my legs at once, however when I notice that main monthly trend is possibly changing, I will diversify but this time will start closing the largest legs of the largest group + the smaller legs of current group im focusing. But never all at once as it could be possible be just a correction.

In my above chart, if...
Hi Guys,

Re-reading some of Graeme's posts and ran into this one. Just trying to understand the reasoning behind what I have highlighted in Magenta color.

- Why would Graeme close the largest legs of the largest group? I understand we got to be sensible and mix and match some legs across different groups and not set any hard and fast rules. wouldn't it make sense to close a few more medium term legs to raise capital balance?

- Another related question... How important it is to keep accounting of pips for each pair? I am finding it tedious (call my lazy!). I should be able to simply look at my account balance at start of week or month and when time comes to 'refill' my balance via diversification, simply start closing some of the mid-term and recent legs across pairs. We simply follow the market with buy when it goes up and sell when it goes down. With that logic, doesn't keeping track of opportunity cycles, how far price has moved away from 200ema in relative to past moves etc etc becomes irrelevant (with the exception of managing drawdowns) ?
Staying in my lane...
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