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  • #799,341
  • Dec 27, 2023 3:29pm Dec 27, 2023 3:29pm
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  • Dec 27, 2023 3:30pm Dec 27, 2023 3:30pm
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  • #799,343
  • Dec 27, 2023 3:30pm Dec 27, 2023 3:30pm
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  • #799,344
  • Edited 3:51pm Dec 27, 2023 3:35pm | Edited 3:51pm
Quoting aa4fx
{quote} Nothing against you personally, just about the better way to approach trading. Sorry for delay, I had to take an excel training in the meantime. I know is hard to get it, maybe that 100k account vs 400 fee ofuscate rationality. With your numbers: 400 $ fee for 100k account. 8 % + 5 % = 13 % one need to make to earn a funded account. Daily risk 5 % / max risk 10 %. 8% of 100k = 8k profit to make -> 5k daily limit. Take a 5k demo account, and a 400 real account where you put the fee. Trade the 5k account => every 50% reset the account balance....
And if you want to learn, learn it in a proper way.

As I said, you are in a different prop world, and that is not my interest... I mean reset fee.

400 $ is one time fee, no reset fee and no need to pay every month.
Intraday only.
  • #799,345
  • Dec 27, 2023 3:45pm Dec 27, 2023 3:45pm
May break the hugh any time when Asia opens..to 2820 or more then drop.
Intraday only.
  • #799,346
  • Dec 27, 2023 3:59pm Dec 27, 2023 3:59pm
Reading some stuff about prop trading.
interesting approach using a demo account and copy on a real.
anyway, fee is payed once and refunded
at least the props I checked.

i guess some calculations are not right but I read them quickly.
the point in prop trading is to pay a refundable fee in order to have a 5 to 200 (or more) trading account where getting profits by trading interesting size and not getting stressed by small sized trades.
5% drawdown is not that small if you consider to risk max 1% on a trade.
i guess the thing is more about containing risk, being consistent and having not the pressure to oversize, overtrade, etc.

if one has the possibility to trade a own 50 to 200k money ok, but if one has not , in my opinion the prop world is a good choice. Maybe for some months then later trading own money maybe..

imo trading requires to withdraw profits.
from a 400 to 1k account you will not able to make enough profits to live with.
before that you need at least a 20 to 30 k account or just bet in oversized trades ending in more probably a wipe out.

time to make that 400 fee account big enough to live with? Guess 1 year or more.
time for the challenge? In 1 month or 2 one could end the second step and start making real money out of a 50 or 100k account (or the size it is]

just my view
90% of traders use TA, indicators and prediction
  • #799,347
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:00pm Dec 27, 2023 4:00pm
Quoting T721
Just in case anybugger other than me trades Oil ---- OIL --- swing trade idea... made a ton on the long side then short.. Oil doesnt usually make it as easy as this. Do Not follow if you dont know what you are doing, If it goes Titsup its my ass not yours. Soz for spamming gu thread with oil but you get some pisseasy money outta it and runs double or triple gu {image} {image}
I trade oil.
buying now these levels but looking closely behavior could keep going down.
posted also in wti thread
https://www.energyexch.com/thread/29...ading?page=556
90% of traders use TA, indicators and prediction
  • #799,348
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:13pm Dec 27, 2023 4:13pm
2835 / 40 and then drop
Intraday only.
  • #799,349
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:18pm Dec 27, 2023 4:18pm
More about money management and copy trades
say you have a 100k account with max drawdown 5k
You buy x instrument @1.000 with a 30p sl and a 50p tp1 70p tp2

case 1
sl reached lost 300$ 0,3% account

case 2
tp reached profit approx 600$

in case 1 you still have a long way to reach the 5k did
in case 2 you have 600 $ profits in a trade. It is almost half average Italian salary.

you can stop trading until end of month and get that money or eventually until u see another good setup.

I consider this an advantage if compared with the “let’s try all every possible signal glued to a monitor to oversize a trade and make THE ONE”
90% of traders use TA, indicators and prediction
  • #799,350
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:22pm Dec 27, 2023 4:22pm
Quoting _BBKing_
More about money management and copy trades say you have a 100k account with max drawdown 5k You buy x instrument @1.000 with a 30p sl and a 50p tp1 70p tp2 case 1 sl reached lost 300$ 0,3% account case 2 tp reached profit approx 600$ in case 1 you still have a long way to reach the 5k did in case 2 you have 600 $ profits in a trade. It is almost half average Italian salary. you can stop trading until end of month and get that money or eventually until u see another good setup. I consider this an advantage if compared with the “let’s try all every...
Approximately, i can say, if you risk > 0.5 % per stnadard lot, you are un likely to win longer term.

You trade 5 lots. 2.5 k is your risk, ( Risk only )

Reward repends.

You can make 200 $ per standard lot, that is fine .

For 5 lots, you make 1 k per day/

You quit trading for that day.

In other words, you trade 5 lots in a 100 k account with 50 to 60 pips stop for a reward of 20 pips fine
Intraday only.
  • #799,351
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:37pm Dec 27, 2023 4:37pm
Quoting navk
May break the hugh any time when Asia opens..to 2820 or more then drop.
scary it looks wanna test 1.3 end of yaear from weekly chart
  • #799,352
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:37pm Dec 27, 2023 4:37pm
Quoting navk
{quote} Approximately, i can say, if you risk > 0.5 % per stnadard lot, you are unlikely to win longer term. You trade 5 lots. 2.5 k is your risk, ( Risk only ) Reward repends. You can make 200 $ per standard lot, that is fine . For 5 lots, you make 1 k per day/ You quit trading for that day. In other words, you trade 5 lots in a 100 k account with 50 to 60 pips stop for a reward of 20 pips fine
yes true but 5lots is something you trade on even bigger account.
a 1% dd x trade which imo is fair enough on a 100k account so 1k dd.
if you size 5lots, and get wrong, you are out in just 20pips.

ok you can enlarge risk to say a 2% so meaning 2k or 40 pips. But still I guess it’s good on a 200k account or more.

i do this calculation
my strategy gives me average 7 entries x instrument x week.
Sl 30
tp average 50pips.

trading 1lot means risking 2100 $ x week aiming for potential 3500$
Increase the lot size, everything increases of course both risk and potential gain.

5lots means risking 10k x week.
if I was billionaire, I would probably risk that much… but probably would not be even trading if I really was
90% of traders use TA, indicators and prediction
  • #799,353
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:39pm Dec 27, 2023 4:39pm
Quoting voeltoez
{quote} scary it looks wanna test 1.3 end of yaear from weekly chart
yes it s really possible looking at weekly looks just like this candle will go there
90% of traders use TA, indicators and prediction
  • #799,354
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:41pm Dec 27, 2023 4:41pm
Quoting navk
{quote} You are in a different prop world. 400 $ is one time fee and not monthly . no need to reset and no need to pay fee again And I paid, 400 $ fee for this account. Proove if you can make this profit if you can make in 400 $ real account. This is just one day profit in account no # 1. I trade as I said 2 accounts at a time using trade copier. If on an average, If i make 3 to 4 % in one account, i quit trading in that account for that month. {image}
i believe you, no need to some printscreen.
I don't calculate the fee every month ... I don't know from where you got that.

Maybe I did not explained it too well, although in the example I offered more than needed, I showed the solution on how to do it.

Maybe this way will understand.

Supposing that you make 20% each trade ( maybe is not realistic, ... each session, each day)
Flip 400$ fee -> 13 times -> with 20% increase -> 4279$ flip it for another 4% -> 8874$
Sure, is not easy to make 20% in a trade, or in a day or ... in a session. Then, how to look at it?

Now, you have 100k funded (5k daily allowance) -> you have to make in total 13% to get funded -> therefore your account need to be 113k to reach funded level.
From 100k to 101k -> you made 1%
don't forget you have to stay in that 5k daily allowance.
If instead of 100k account you would have had 5k account -> make 1k -> to 6k -> increase is 20%

Still don't get it?
You never can bypass that 5k daily limit, so if you have 100k and loose 5% you are out, or have 5k account and loose it all, is exactly the same thing.
Staying inside that 5k then, is the same thing if you make 1% on 100k or 20% on a 5k account -> both are making 1k in money.

Now the reset ...
Supposing that in day 1 you made that 1k = 1% in 100k / 20% in the 5k account
On day 2, take another demo account, (fresh one, a private demo account)... of 5k -> look to make another 20% = 1k
Do it for 13 days => 13k made -> the account is now 113k .. job done.

So, if in day 1 you put the fee in an account (real preferably), -> copy the 5k demo account -> 20% -> 480
do it for 13 days -> ... but every day your free account grow 20%, while you still trade a 5k daily account, the fee account grow exponentially

(in my previous calcul the fee account was growing 25% instead of 20% ... but still, in a little more time is clear evidence).

To conclude, I only have the 1 time fee (one time only, not every month) that I put in one account that trade an account with a capital of a daily allowance account of a funded account. By this way, the trader stay mentally ok as he always see a daily allowance account, trade every day the same, same risk, nothing changes from day to day ... but what is behind the scene is the way one could increase profitability or waste it.

If still not good, no issue, I think explained more than enough.
I know that with some a simple imagination is enough, with others some calculation, with others some real cases need to be provided ... and others even if see it still not get it.

Anyway, in January as said, I will look into making it (is also part of the adjustment approach to this activity). I only could hope that my trading approach/skills will support such adventure.

I see now why stopping one account after 3-4% in a month and going for others VS trade always one account and make in it 30-40% ... as in case of a bad day, one account is destroyed but the others remains.

Thanks for the discussion, I hope it was constructive, for me at least it was as it brings more ideas.
  • #799,355
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:44pm Dec 27, 2023 4:44pm
Quoting Jolita
{quote} You can still trade your money
the right way, always!
  • #799,356
  • Dec 27, 2023 4:52pm Dec 27, 2023 4:52pm
Quoting aa4fx
{quote} i believe you, no need to some printscreen. I don't calculate the fee every month ... I don't know from where you got that. Maybe I did not explained it too well, although in the example I offered more than needed, I showed the solution on how to do it. Maybe this way will understand. Supposing that you make 20% each trade ( maybe is not realistic, ... each session, each day) Flip 400$ fee -> 13 times -> with 20% increase -> 4279$ flip it for another 4% -> 8874$ Sure, is not easy to make 20% in a trade, or in a day or ... in a session. Then,...
20% in a day isn’t something you get.
Nor in a 5k account neither in a 100k.
Yes you can have A ONE lucky day sometimes.
to bring 1 k out of a 5k one in a day means you get a 100p profits using 1lot.
or 200 p using half lot
or 300 p using 0.3 lots and so on.

that means over leverage or overtrade. Or both.
the right way to destroy an account in less than 1 month I would say.

i know very good traders being able to reach a 5 to 20% profits ….but on a monthly bases

edit. Ok maybe you don’t mean to reach a 20% a day, you mean… the day you reach it, then create a new account. So the 13 days could mean 150 calendar days
90% of traders use TA, indicators and prediction
  • #799,357
  • Dec 27, 2023 5:02pm Dec 27, 2023 5:02pm
Quoting voeltoez
{quote} scary it looks wanna test 1.3 end of yaear from weekly chart
use stop loss
Intraday only.
  • #799,358
  • Dec 27, 2023 5:03pm Dec 27, 2023 5:03pm
Quoting navk
{quote} You are in a different prop world. 400 $ is one time fee and not monthly . no need to reset and no need to pay fee again And I paid, 400 $ fee for this account. Proove if you can make this profit if you can make in 400 $ real account. This is just one day profit in account no # 1. I trade as I said 2 accounts at a time using trade copier. If on an average, If i make 3 to 4 % in one account, i quit trading in that account for that month. {image}
Proove if you can make this profit if you can make in 400 $ real account.

Is wrong what you ask.
That 2344 profit of your is made in a 100k account with 5k daily allowance.

When you made it? in day 1 when you subscribed with 400$ for a funded account?
NO!
You paid 400$ -> got a 100k account with 5k daily allowance.
Are you paid immediately?
NO!
You had to make 13% (8%+5%) before you start to eat = get funded trader and make money.
Yu are now funded -> made 2344$ on a 100k account that has a 5k daily allowance.
That is to say, 2.3% on an 100k account or 46% related to the 5k daily allowance.

The calcul I did with the flip of that 400$ fee you trade
Flip 400$ fee -> 13 times -> with 20% increase -> 4279$ this is the amount you already have by the time you reach the funded level. Is your money vs if paid to be funded, you still have 0 and hopes.
Then, from that 4279 -> flip 2.5 more times (I explained already the approach) -> it will be around 7000$ in the account where you put the initial 400$ fee.

If you keep on going with that, then that account will increase exponentially where you always have the same 100k funded account to trade.

Even so, by the time you made 2344$ I would have made 7000$ if I would have had copied exactly the same trades.
On the 2nd month, you will make again 2344$ -> I could make the same if I will remove from 7000 -> 2344 (even thow is a lit more) ... or, if I keep the 7k -> another 2.5 flip -> I am already 12k+ ... no need to continue.

So, following the same process as you, in a different way, if giving more money in the end, way way more ...
  • #799,359
  • Dec 27, 2023 5:07pm Dec 27, 2023 5:07pm
Quoting aa4fx
{quote} i believe you, no need to some printscreen. I don't calculate the fee every month ... I don't know from where you got that. Maybe I did not explained it too well, although in the example I offered more than needed, I showed the solution on how to do it. Maybe this way will understand. Supposing that you make 20% each trade ( maybe is not realistic, ... each session, each day) Flip 400$ fee -> 13 times -> with 20% increase -> 4279$ flip it for another 4% -> 8874$ Sure, is not easy to make 20% in a trade, or in a day or ... in a session. Then,...
you can go here and do mathematics to your hearts content LOL

https://www.forexfactory.com/thread/...-prop-firm-hub

theres a guy there too that does math

im old fashioned...i believe in real money accounts...most of FF is either poor people prop trading trying to better themselves cause they dont have the disosable income to trade for real or habitual gamblers who told their wives theyll stop betting on cards or sports or horses cause the wifey threatened to divorce them so they open prop challenges and experience the thril of gambling which the firms encourage since the firms make money when the challengers bust out LOL...

those two types are the prop firms main customers

to me its like buying a car or leasing it....in one instance you dont own anything and it can be taken away from you at any time... prop firms deny payouts all the time but youll never hear some dipshit admit to having a payout denied in this room LOL...cause every prop trader on FF makes money every single day from the screenshots they post
short trump and go long the deepstate
  • #799,360
  • Dec 27, 2023 5:10pm Dec 27, 2023 5:10pm
Quoting _BBKing_
{quote} 20% in a day isn’t something you get. Nor in a 5k account neither in a 100k. Yes you can have A ONE lucky day sometimes. to bring 1 k out of a 5k one in a day means you get a 100p profits using 1lot. or 200 p using half lot or 300 p using 0.3 lots and so on. that means over leverage or overtrade. Or both. the right way to destroy an account in less than 1 month I would say. i know very good traders being able to reach a 5 to 20% profits ….but on a monthly bases edit. Ok maybe you don’t mean to reach a 20% a day, you mean… the day you reach...
yes, that edit is important! the time frame is wrong.


They made to get funded 13% on a 100k account with 5k daily limit. that is to say, they made 13k$ -> is is realistic to make 1k on a 100K$ account with a 5% daily drawdown limit? ... in how much time? .. 1 day? ... 2 days? ...
then, why is not the same to make 1k profit in a 5k account? ... 5k account where you go all in, if you loose you're out, if you made 1k profit within a 4999 drawdown all good (I know margin requirements, etc etc)

Is not the same? ... we stay under the same daily limit.

Then, how much time you needed for the 100k account to make 13k profit = same time for the 5K account to make 13k profit if go all in in this account.

Maybe now is more clear.
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