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Basket Knights - A Basket Trading Round Table

  • #961
  • Nov 23, 2019 7:20pm Nov 23, 2019 7:20pm
Quoting robots4me
{quote} {quote} I know, I know -- but I hate using emojis -- they just aren't my style. I've only recently learned how to use them. Here -- @Blaiserboy, my friend -- I'll lower myself to include a smiley just for you...
I have three (3) software written by robots4me which greatly enhanced profitability for me and hundreds of others. I recall that he was good enough to spend a lot of time teaching me how to maximize the use of these.

I fully expect that the contributions he will make to this thread over a few months will revolutionize some aspects of basket trading to benefit all of us.

He is just starting to get the feel of basketing, be patient until he has a full grasp and then be prepared for some great developments.

Criticism may be fair, however, without offering any improvements makes it look like we are living in the past, harboring grudges. A waste of time!
  • #962
  • Nov 23, 2019 9:23pm Nov 23, 2019 9:23pm
Not wanting to spoil everyone's fun but it would be great to just focus on the baskets. Not interested in personal grudges, life is short and its a waste of all of our time. Looking through this thread every post Robots4me has added has been extremely useful...for me at least, plus we are just gaining some momentum now in looking at other tools to make things more efficient.

Heres to a positive week ahead.
EX BBMA trader focusing on REE code.
  • #963
  • Nov 24, 2019 3:15am Nov 24, 2019 3:15am
Quoting aaven
{quote} Steve, Extending what you said and Using C5 basket as an example; can we say that a pair[X] is managed by other pairs[A,B,C ETC]. {image} a. GBPJPY price movement is 'managed' by controlling [AUDJPY, EURJPY,GBPJPY,GBPUSD, NZDUSD] or looking at a different way: b. GBPJPY is the parent that acts as constraint limiting the degree of freedom of [AUDJPY,EURJPY,GBPJPY,GBPUSD,NZDUSD] There are 8 major currencies: AUD CAD CHF EUR GBP JPY NZD USD If we capture the whole of 28 pairs and simplify it to just 4 pairs/4 Indexes: AUDCAD EURCHF GBPJPY NZDUSD...
Hello @aaven -- I think the relationship between pairs is very complex -- much too complex for us to understand or even bother to worry about. Pairs with the same base currency or counter currency do tend to move in similar patterns -- and that's not too surprising. I'm empirical -- I look at data, experiment and test. I don't theorize or intellectualize -- it makes my brain hurt and I'm often wrong.

The point I was trying to make is for a given Index+Tidane you can divide the 28 pairs into two groups -- Group A pairs tend to follow the trend and Group B pairs tend to move opposite the trend. That's all -- Group A and Group B. I don't intellectualize which pairs go into which group -- instead, I'm using software to simulate how each pair trades given a particular Index+Tidane.

Furthermore, within each Group A and Group B I can rank the pairs according to how big their profit is. I may not want to trade all 28 pairs, so I'll choose the top performers in each group. Or, as @bishopdotun and I have done with the RB15 basket, we've decided to exclude all GBP and CHF pairs.

There's nothing new under the sun here. When Tidane displays a new transition signal we open BUY trades on certain pairs and SELL trades on others. All I was attempting to do was to formalize how pairs get divided into BUY or SELL baskets.
  • #964
  • Nov 24, 2019 3:55am Nov 24, 2019 3:55am
Quoting robots4me
{quote}...Or, as @bishopdotun and I have done with the RB15 basket, we've decided to exclude all GBP and CHF pairs...
Sorry to butt in @robots4me, but allow me to ask: WHAT informed the decision to exclude GBP and CHF? Was it anything in particular? Maybe:
- The upcoming UK elections? Or...
- The penchant for the SNB to dabble in currency "manipulation"?

Part of the reason I ask is because if you "rank the pairs according to how big their profit is", then you could do little "worse" than GBP. As you guys must know, GBP is a great mover.

Regards and Stay fluid,

Ty
My job: I speculate and manage risk.
  • #965
  • Nov 24, 2019 4:03am Nov 24, 2019 4:03am
Quoting Pip-Miner
{quote} Steve, your not something special. Stop polluting another thread. Your just an old grumpy retired programmer who still can’t trade. That’s why you have all these systems and keep changing. Are you profitable long run ? I say your not . And don’t message garbage like I begged you to use your indicator. I never used it as it failed testing miserably.
And you are in your sweet 16's?
  • #966
  • Nov 24, 2019 4:05am Nov 24, 2019 4:05am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Hello @aaven -- I think the relationship between pairs is very complex -- much too complex for us to understand or even bother to worry about. Pairs with the same base currency or counter currency do tend to move in similar patterns -- and that's not too surprising. I'm empirical -- I look at data, experiment and test. I don't theorize or intellectualize -- it makes my brain hurt and I'm often wrong. The point I was trying to make is for a given Index+Tidane you can divide the 28 pairs into two groups -- Group A pairs tend to follow the...
Thanks Steve for the insights...
  • #967
  • Nov 24, 2019 4:27am Nov 24, 2019 4:27am
Quoting TyLamai
{quote} Sorry to butt in @robots4me, but allow me to ask: WHAT informed the decision to exclude GBP and CHF? Was it anything in particular? Maybe: - The upcoming UK elections? Or... - The penchant for the SNB to dabble in currency "manipulation"? Part of the reason I ask is because if you "rank the pairs according to how big their profit is", then you could do little "worse" than GBP. As you guys must know, GBP is a great mover. Regards and Stay fluid, Ty
Quote
Sorry to butt in @robots4me,
Ty -- come on -- this is your thread. I post because (a) traders do share (unlike what @moodybot believes), (b) I want everyone to succeed, (c) by posting I often learn from the feedback, and (d) posting helps to keep your wonderful thread alive and humming...

As to why we decided to create an index to exclude GBP and CHF, the reason is: just because... There already exist indexes that include GBP and CHF and we wanted to try something a little bit different. Also, we wanted something that was really, really, really stable and stress free. Something that new traders with small accounts could trade with minimal risk. Yes -- GBP is a great mover and we leave pips on the table. But depending where you are in your trading career a more conservative Index might be more suitable. I'm not advocating RB15 over another Index -- this is just another Index we've added to our toolbox. @bishopdotun may have additional comments to add as to why we are experimenting with RB15.

And before we move on from the recent distractions there is one additional point I would like to make. It is often said "we stand on the shoulders of giants". We've all heard it but rarely appreciate it. I stand on @bishopdotun's shoulders. He arrived out of nowhere in my BDX thread and provided the magic sauce that was missing. He also introduced me to this thread and basket trading. He has helped guide me and teach me and give me confidence to post my opinions and software. And, Ty, you are also of the same mold. The basket trading strategy you've brought to life here is great. It works and it's fun to think about and experiment with. Kudos to you...
  • #968
  • Nov 24, 2019 4:46am Nov 24, 2019 4:46am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} {quote}...And, Ty, you are also of the same mold. The basket trading strategy you've brought to life here is great. It works and it's fun to think about and experiment with. Kudos to you...
Awwwww...again!!!
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Regards and Stay fluid,

Ty
My job: I speculate and manage risk.
  • #969
  • Nov 24, 2019 5:47am Nov 24, 2019 5:47am
Quoting TyLamai
{quote} Awwwww...again!!! {image} Regards and Stay fluid, Ty
. I’ll leave you two lover boys alone...

Inserted Video
  • #970
  • Nov 24, 2019 6:38am Nov 24, 2019 6:38am
Quoting Pip-Miner
{quote} . I’ll leave you two lover boys alone... https://youtu.be/AB7f26dGGzI
@Pip-Miner -- there is a skill that some have and some don't -- and that is to know when to stop when you are ahead (or, at least know when to cut your losses). Obviously you lack that skill in real-life, and that probably goes for trading as well. I don't think you realize that with each post then more and more people realize you are an unhappy man. Which is probably why no one pays any attention to your advice, which makes you even more unhappy. You have no interest in basket trading, yet you come here to disrupt Ty's thread -- and to lecture me.

A little drama never hurts, but at some point people get tired of it. You should as well.

It's up to Ty how he wishes to manage it.
  • #971
  • Nov 24, 2019 7:12am Nov 24, 2019 7:12am
Quoting Pip-Miner
{quote} . I’ll leave you two lover boys alone... https://youtu.be/AB7f26dGGzI
Thank you...

Please don't let the door hit you on your way out.
Inserted Video


Regards and Stay fluid,

Ty
My job: I speculate and manage risk.
  • #972
  • Nov 24, 2019 7:55am Nov 24, 2019 7:55am
Hello Ty Hello everybody
I a lonely French trader living in Barcelona
I rode all the pages of your thread and i lile the mood and the trading system
I’d like to join your group and skype too
I’m not the best but I’d do all i can to participate and share
Regard
Chris
  • #973
  • Nov 24, 2019 8:12am Nov 24, 2019 8:12am
Quoting Elsaloon
Hello Ty Hello everybody I a lonely French trader living in Barcelona I rode all the pages of your thread and i lile the mood and the trading system I’d like to join your group and skype too I’m not the best but I’d do all i can to participate and share Regard Chris
You are welcome Chris. Happy to have you here.

Take a seat at the Round Table and contribute as much as you want.

Set up your offline/Index chart and let us see what it looks like.

Regards and Stay fluid,

Ty
My job: I speculate and manage risk.
  • #974
  • Nov 24, 2019 8:31am Nov 24, 2019 8:31am
Quoting TyLamai
{quote} You are welcome Chris. Happy to have you here. Take a seat at the Round Table and contribute as much as you want. Set up your offline/Index chart and let us see what it looks like. Regards and Stay fluid, Ty
Thanks a lot Ty
I’ll will
Cheers
Chris
  • #975
  • Nov 24, 2019 8:49am Nov 24, 2019 8:49am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} {quote} @bishopdotun may have additional comments to add as to why we are experimenting with RB15. And before we move on from the recent distractions there is one additional point I would like to make. It is often said "we stand on the shoulders of giants". We've all heard it but rarely appreciate it. I stand on @bishopdotun's shoulders. He arrived out of nowhere in my BDX thread and provided the magic sauce that was missing. He also introduced me to this thread and basket trading. He has helped guide me and teach me and give me confidence...
You are far too generous with words Steve.

You have said everything. There is really nothing new to share.

I trade RB7 & C14 and I love the results. I am now trading signal to signal. I also add re-entries based on the first few re-entry opportunities I see after a new trend signal. For instance, I have now added all entries I can add. I will hold my trades till the next long signal before closing.

Don’t be confused by the index. Follow these steps to trade.

- Just pick any one (C5, C8, C12, C15, RB7 e.t.c).
- Set up your index chart
- Decide on the pairs in the trading basket (Group A + B)
- Wait for a new trend change
- Push the button when you get a new signal

It’s really hard to tell the difference between the charts below.

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  • #976
  • Edited 6:25pm Nov 24, 2019 5:37pm | Edited 6:25pm
Leviticus83 did the EAX for offline basket. Look interesting but after reading and re-read, load and re-load I just cannot get it works.

edit: it works
  • #977
  • Nov 24, 2019 6:31pm Nov 24, 2019 6:31pm
Hi Ty, hi people. I am new here... Reading the thread and learning. I’d like to join your group and skype too. This is my graphics, but I think the candles in the offline chart are very very few and the valor of Pivots are, of course, diferent... Are totally diferent to yours graphics Ty... Its a demo account in ICMarket, the numbers on the right are very different, to the last chart you published, I assume that this is related to the number of candles that the offline chart has, in my case they are 752 candles.
Thanks a lot for all the work here, my congratulations for the amazing people in this thread.
Eduardo
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  • #978
  • Nov 24, 2019 9:13pm Nov 24, 2019 9:13pm
Quoting robots4me
I've made a modification to the BasketChart2 indicator that @LifeHunt3r shared a few posts back -- again, thank you @LifeHunt3r. Here's a link to the modified indicator: {file} There are three main changes: 1. The index's OHLC bars and Smoothed Heiken Ashi are drawn in the main window. 2. I've simplified the input settings and only expose the 'Pairs' setting. 3. I've modified the settings for the Smoothed Heiken Ashi so that it now closely mirrors Tidane 20/2. It would be too much work to substitute the built-in Smoothed HA with Tidane, so I instead...
Genuine question. Just wondering what you meant by..... 'I won't go into how I created Groups A and B, other than to say it took some thought'....
  • #979
  • Nov 24, 2019 10:05pm Nov 24, 2019 10:05pm
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Genuine question. Just wondering what you meant by..... 'I won't go into how I created Groups A and B, other than to say it took some thought'....
Quote
Genuine question. Just wondering what you meant by..... 'I won't go into how I created Groups A and B, other than to say it took some thought'...

@moodybot -- fair enough -- good question. In response to one of @aaven's questions I provided some additional details. But since I haven't decided whether or not to share it then I didn't make a big deal. Also, I'm not sure how useful it would be since (a) it's something you use one evening to decide on your Group A and Group B pairs and then never use again, and (b) it also requires adding a few lines of code to the indicator you wish to test.

I've been working on some software -- sort of unique but not complicated -- that "simulates" the profit/loss of a particular pair using a particular indicator -- e.g. Tidane. The indicator provides the signals and using MT4's Custom Events it tells a different indicator -- the "analysis" indicator -- at which bars a BULLISH or BEARISH transition occurs. After traversing all the bars (i.e. when OnCalculate completes) the Tidane indicator is now out of the picture and it is up to the "analysis" indicator to compute the P/L for the pairs that belong to Group A and Group B baskets. What I can also do is include only a single pair in the Group A basket and leave Group B empty. In this way I can easily tell whether a particular pair has a general tendency to trade in the same direction or opposite of Index+Tidane. If the pair has a positive P/L then it gets added to Group A and if it has a negative P/L then it gets added to Group B. And then I repeat the analysis for the next pair. I'll test each pair one at a time.

Basket strategies can not be tested in MT4 Strategy Tester because it does not support multiple pairs -- which puts us at a disadvantage when it comes to back testing. So even though a P/L simulator is only a rough estimate and doesn't really trade, it provides another "data point" to help evaluate a strategy. In the case of basket trading it doesn't have to be precise in terms of predicting an equity curve -- rather, it only needs to be "good enough" to help you decide whether a pair belongs in Group A or Group B.

I know you like to program -- so here are a few more details about how to estimate the P/L from signal-to-signal:
When the Tidane signals a transition then we save the Open price for the current symbol and with each subsequent bar we compute the delta (i.e. difference) between the open price and the current close price. If the current trend is BULLISH and the symbol belongs in Group A then: Delta = Close - Open, or if the symbol belongs in Group B then: Delta = Open - Close. And we keep summing and plotting all the deltas until we reach the next transition. If the current trend is BEARISH then we adjust the computations accordingly. In the end you get a P/L chart that makes it very clear whether a symbol should be traded with the Tidane's trend or opposite the trend. And this then allows you to assign the symbol to either Group A or Group B. Also, depending on the total P/L you may decide that a symbol makes minimal contribution and, so, you ignore it.

Again -- keep in mind the "analysis" indicator does not really trade -- there are no StopLosses so it never loses. It only compares the open price at a signal with subsequent close prices (until the next signal). It roughly simulates trading from signal-to-signal. The Group A and Group B assignments that I've been able to compose using this "analysis" indicator align with current 'C' and 'RB' baskets, so I'm pretty sure it is working correctly.

@moodybot -- if you or someone else would like to test a particular Group A or Group B basket against a particular Index+Tidane, then tell me which pairs go into the Index, Group A and Group B and I'll run the analysis and send screen shots of the results.
  • #980
  • Nov 25, 2019 1:18am Nov 25, 2019 1:18am
[quote=robots4me;12631506]{quote} {quote} @moodybot -- fair enough -- good question. In response to one of @aaven's questions I provided some additional details. But since I haven't decided whether or not to share it then I didn't make a big deal. Also, I'm not sure how useful it would be since (a) it's something you use....

Thank you for the detailed answer.
Yes i do tinker with programming, EA and Excel.
Dave (fsxfm) and I have spent a long time studying baskets, Dave more than I.
Using either excel (Dave's forte') or EA's that i built using currency strength, pip movement, dollar value, indicators..... it became very obvious that the real mover and shaker was simply USD/JPY. Dave mentioned this in an earlier post. The groups are predictable and a certain EA dash doing the rounds would show their relative position. Not easy to fathom out but very usable. The pairs would jump, until locked, at that point the market would almost lock up, then the reverse process would begin. This was just after J101 had bought basket trading to Forex factory.
The syncing up of pairs began with the USD/JPY, early days the sync happened more often than it does now. I'm not convinced it has anything to do with banks institutions but more to do with algorithms driving currency pairs that have to have a certain 'allegiance' to their supposed group of pairs. If they didn't conform to certain parameters then we wouldn't have a market to trade. And by this i mean we cant have usdcad blasting into orbit and usdchf depth charging, there has to be a controlling or overriding factor that prevents pairs disappearing off in all directions like stars in the universe. The pairs will act as one in a group for a period of time, I believe that is the market resettling after stop runs, the issue of course, the timing of when they move.
Dave and I had an EA several years ago that would accurately show the move had begun based on pip movement, what we couldn't get right was when the move was over. Visually there were 3 main moves in a short period of time once the USD/JPY had synced up. Looking at individual pairs it looked like a stop run however the pairs would round robin...basically each taking a turn, making higher highs, lower lows, in other words, carefully controlled. Not a natural breathing market.
Very easy to go down a rabbit hole with all of this, that's why i asked the question. Dave might jump in an expand on this but I know that he has become slightly disillusioned with the Factory.

M.
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