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  • #721
  • Oct 31, 2016 3:51am Oct 31, 2016 3:51am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Yes. and Orlando, Fl. Gay club. Just going shopping. {image}
Well that is a shame ... there is a GTBS bar a few miles from me to which a number of 'straight' young ladies venture precisely because it is heavily populated with bouncers, festooned with CCTV, and probably the safest place to get totally bladdered in the UK.

They probably wouldn't let me in ... I'm straight and way above the high-water mark for typical age of clients.

When you are out shopping I recommend this. Practically impossible to miss .... an early attempt at an Uzi, methinks.
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Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #722
  • Oct 31, 2016 4:54am Oct 31, 2016 4:54am
Quoting ThunderHeart
.... Fact: 59% of the burglaries in Britain, which has tough gun control laws, are hot burglaries 12 (http://www.gunfacts.info/gun-control-myths/crime-and-guns/#note-93-12) which are burglaries committed while the home is occupied by the owner/renter. By contrast, the U.S., with more lenient gun control laws, has a hot burglary rate of only 13%. ....
There has been an increase in this type of burglary where I live (a not-so-sleepy village). My partner has heard of two such events in our village this year and is now starting to fret about it. We are not allowed any type of defensive measures that could be classified as weapons. There are a few items of sporting equipment that I could use to beat the brains out of anybody ... assuming I managed to make the first move.

In answer to Jen's statement about insurance etc. No insurance company can replace the ring given to you by your grandmother, for instance.

In answer to the conundrum about shooting a miscreant on your porch. You drag them into the house and then back out again, that way there is evidence inside the house and you of course removed the debris so that you could close the door.


Moving on.....
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #723
  • Oct 31, 2016 4:57am Oct 31, 2016 4:57am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Truly insane thinking. Many more people would have been killed. I shudder at the thought of your average "WallMart shopper" carrying a gun. Typically, joeBob with a gun will; 1) Drink lots of beer and shoot at targets "because it's fun". 2) accidentally shoot himself 3) Psychologically, the gun is his surrogate penis. 4) His child will play with the gun and kill someone or himself. 5) He will see some Arab looking dude (or black, or Mexican or a woman- whatever Trump said in the last speech) and shoot at him/her. What part of the body does...
The Gun is mostly a Man thing.
  • #724
  • Oct 31, 2016 8:14am Oct 31, 2016 8:14am
Quoting Exodus
Hey! ...you guys have been busy over the weekend! I might not catch-up on all of it {quote} The average IQ of an American is 100. That number is produced by statistical analysis of the data set and the 'average' is given the value 100. Therefore some number of people have an IQ less than 100 and an equal number of people have an IQ greater than 100. If what you really meant to say is that on average Americans are more stupid than Britons then; a) I'm now going to hide ... b) I disagree
Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, that the average IQ in the US is below the average IQ in the UK: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country. I have my explanation as to why I believe that is, but unfortunately I cannot state those simple facts of nature here as I have alluded to it once before and was hit by a CoC breach. So, you can take a guess or if you want I am happy to spell it out in a pm to you.

I did not say that there are equal numbers of people either side of the average. In fact I said the opposite. I believe most people are below the average IQ.
  • #725
  • Edited 8:49am Oct 31, 2016 8:35am | Edited 8:49am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} Everyone should feel safe in their own home. Yet the facts are there: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245417/Burglary-victims-attacked-home-30-minutes.html
I do feel safe in my own home. However there are times when I don't whilst out and carrying a gun would not help at all because every idiot around me would be carrying one too.

I never walk alone after dark; if I go out I always have my car. I like to go on 5 mile or so runs off road where there is no one around but for the occasional dog walker. I worry about wierdos jumping out of bushes. I had an incident once where I hooted a lorry for jumping a red light, so he slammed all on in front of me forcing me to stop. He was a big hulk, red with rage and all puffed up walking towards my car. I thought he was going to punch my window in. I was 8 months pregnant at the time. What if I had a gun, would I have shot him? Would the law have been on my side if I had? As it was, I managed to reverse out, fast.

Then I had some creep trying to talk to me at an event. I ignored him, got into my car and drove off. He followed me! I went round in circles and he was there the whole time. It took me about 40 minutes to shake him off. Maybe if I had a gun I could have just shot his tyres? Well, he would have probably done the same to me. That is one main reason why I like big, powerful cars now, lol. I know I can out run most things on the road.
  • #726
  • Oct 31, 2016 8:46am Oct 31, 2016 8:46am
The Wild West seems to have evolved on a tangent from the rest of the civilised world, in my opinion. I don't see freedom in a gun culture; I see fear. Do most British people want the ability to purchase firearms? It's a resounding 'no.' Is that an opinion not worthy of consideration when just about 100% of a country disagrees with you? More people here are anti gun than they are anti Communism - fact!

https://www.quora.com/Do-most-British-people-not-want-to-have-the-ability-to-purchase-firearms Our everyday police are unarmed. Why? It is clearly explained in the 100+ opinions written here.
  • #727
  • Oct 31, 2016 8:56am Oct 31, 2016 8:56am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Kids get hold of guns in the UK. That in itself is a feat of accomplishment because supposedly there are none to be had.
No, I was talking about the US.
  • #728
  • Oct 31, 2016 9:05am Oct 31, 2016 9:05am
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I agree that responsible gun owners do exist. And the responsible gun owners must be in constant conflict with the NRA and 2nd amendment enthusiasts ! As with any ideology you will find the disturbing and destructive patterns; "logo" and "dogma" . MOST NRA and 2nd amendment enthusiasts do not have a clue what this means: "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed." ... and they repeat it like a prayer, mantra and slogan. A bumper sticker...
You are very wrong about gun owners understanding of the 2nd amendment. They fully understand it and that is why they bristle every time it is attacked. This simple but very true phrase is one of many things that makes America exceptional. Many would die to keep this right intact. It is under attack but I believe it will survive. I guess one has to be American to really understand. Furthermore if you've never owned a firearm, shot one or assumed the responsibility that comes with gun ownership then it really is difficult to understand the pride that comes with such ownership.

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."
  • #729
  • Oct 31, 2016 9:17am Oct 31, 2016 9:17am
Quoting jen101
The Wild West seems to have evolved on a tangent from the rest of the civilised world, in my opinion. I don't see freedom in a gun culture; I see fear. Do most British people want the ability to purchase firearms? It's a resounding 'no.' Is that an opinion not worthy of consideration when just about 100% of a country disagrees with you? More people here are anti gun than they are anti Communism - fact! https://www.quora.com/Do-most-British-people-not-want-to-have-the-ability-to-purchase-firearms Our everyday police are unarmed. Why? It...
Fear in a gun culture. Really. So Americans are just a bunch of Wild West idiots wielding guns because their afraid of their own shadows. You really have a twisted view of the whole thing. Using a gun in self-defense is only done in extreme situations and only when if fear of your life. Not because you get in an argument with someone or get chased or whatever other reasons you cited. Americans don't do this as you seem to suggest we might with your ridiculous and insulting assumptions about American gun owners. I don't mind having a reasonable discussion about it but making fun of Americans and their desire to own guns is rather low.
  • #730
  • Oct 31, 2016 9:39am Oct 31, 2016 9:39am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Yes, that is exactly what I am saying, that the average IQ in the US is below the average IQ in the UK: https://iq-research.info/en/page/average-iq-by-country. I have my explanation as to why I believe that is, but unfortunately I cannot state those simple facts of nature here as I have alluded to it once before and was hit by a CoC breach. So, you can take a guess or if you want I am happy to spell it out in a pm to you. I did not say that there are equal numbers of people either side of the average. In fact I said the...
Well .... it is hard to disagree with that .... However I would argue that having 79 countries who are 'intelligence impaired' seems a bit excessive. If the list was a measure of education I would find it more believable. ....although I have met one or two from St.Kitts and Nevis

85 is the threshold of disability in the UK. People with IQ of 85 and below are entitled to help with basic things such as looking after their children.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #731
  • Edited 10:13am Oct 31, 2016 9:56am | Edited 10:13am
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} Fear in a gun culture. Really. So Americans are just a bunch of Wild West idiots wielding guns because their afraid of their own shadows. You really have a twisted view of the whole thing. Using a gun in self-defense is only done in extreme situations and only when if fear of your life. Not because you get in an argument with someone or get chased or whatever other reasons you cited. Americans don't do this as you seem to suggest we might with your ridiculous and insulting assumptions about American gun owners. I don't mind having...
No idiots involved, clearly. http://www.ibtimes.com/accidental-gun-deaths-involving-children-are-major-problem-us-2250568

An excerpt:
By the end of 2015, about 265 children under 18 picked up a firearm and shot someone by accident, and 83 of those shootings were fatal, according to research compiled by the gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety. Some 41 of those deaths involved the shooters themselves, and most of the shootings involved toddlers or teens who were playing recklessly with the guns.
Nearly 1.7 million children live in households where guns are stored either loaded or not locked away, according to the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. This makes American children 16 times more likely to be unintentionally killed by a gun, compared with similar countries.


Unarmed black child shot dead: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2112385/Family-black-teenager-shot-dead-Neighborhood-Watch-went-buy-candy-brother-demands-justice.html
So this child was more of a threat to an armed fully grown man in a car than what happened to me as I described above?
  • #732
  • Oct 31, 2016 9:59am Oct 31, 2016 9:59am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Well .... it is hard to disagree with that .... However I would argue that having 79 countries who are 'intelligence impaired' seems a bit excessive. If the list was a measure of education I would find it more believable. ....although I have met one or two from St.Kitts and Nevis 85 is the threshold of disability in the UK. People with IQ of 85 and below are entitled to help with basic things such as looking after their children.
I believe it is 70 where a person is deemed to have mild learning difficulties. An IQ of 85 is quite common... Scroll down to the bottom of that list I linked to - scary or what!
  • #733
  • Oct 31, 2016 10:35am Oct 31, 2016 10:35am
We're just not that into massacres here.

Quote (one of the opinions from a link I posted earlier):
South African sprinter Oscar Pistorius shot and killed his supermodel girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, at home in February 2013. That he shot her is not in dispute. He claims he mistook her for an intruder; other accounts suggest that they might have had an argument and the shooting occurred in the heat of the moment - at the time of writing, his trial is underway.
I don't think we'll ever truly know what happened that night - no-one else was there. But I do think we can be 100% certain of one thing:
Whatever the reason for the shooting, had Pistorius not had an easily accessible gun in his home, Steenkamp would still be alive today.
Page on wikipedia.org
Similarly, had Adam Lanza not had easy access to a semiautomatic rifle (apologies for getting the type of gun wrong at first), 20 children and 6 adults in Sandy Hook would be alive today (and so too, probably, would Lanza). Interestingly, just hours before the Sandy Hook shootings, a man in China entered a primary school with a knife. He stabbed 23 children and an adult woman. Total number of deaths: 0.
Chenpeng Village Primary School stabbing
These two examples show why, in my experience, almost all Brits I know find it utterly baffling that the US is so against gun control of any kind, and why we're very happy with the status quo here.
  • #734
  • Oct 31, 2016 10:45am Oct 31, 2016 10:45am
In the UK less than 1 person is killed by law enforcement every year. In the USA about 1 person per day is killed by law enforcement.
On a population adjusted basis the USA rate is 70x that of the UK rate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_killed_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_Kingdom
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_in_the_United_States,_2013
  • #735
  • Oct 31, 2016 11:38am Oct 31, 2016 11:38am
Quoting jen101
{quote} No idiots involved, clearly. http://www.ibtimes.com/accidental-gun-deaths-involving-children-are-major-problem-us-2250568 An excerpt: By the end of 2015, about 265 children under 18 picked up a firearm and shot someone by accident, and 83 of those shootings were fatal, according to research compiled by the gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety. Some 41 of those deaths involved the shooters themselves, and most of the shootings involved toddlers or teens who were playing recklessly with the guns. Nearly 1.7 million children...
So 83 children died from obtaining a firearm they shouldn't have been able to get in the first place. In the US there are MILLIONS of gun owners. In fact the above statement says "Nearly 1.7 million children live in households where guns are stored either loaded or not locked away, according to the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence" Again 84 died as a result.

"Despite a 43% drop in road crash deaths of children 12 and younger from 2002-2011, more than 9,000 children in that age group died in crashes during that period, says a new report from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

So not only should we take away everyone's guns we should also take away their cars too.

Life is dangerous and we can't protect everyone from themselves. And please don't give me the argument "If even one life can be saved......"

There is no argument that when examined carefully is sufficient to justify disarming the public.

I am freer because I have the right to not only own a firearm but I also have the right to defend myself with one if such a situation were ever to arise. Disarmed societies are completely at the mercy of others for their self defense unless you have been trained in self-defense.
  • #736
  • Oct 31, 2016 12:10pm Oct 31, 2016 12:10pm
Quoting jen101
We're just not that into massacres here. Quote (one of the opinions from a link I posted earlier): South African sprinter Oscar Pistorius shot and killed his supermodel girlfriend, Reeva Steenkamp, at home in February 2013. That he shot her is not in dispute. He claims he mistook her for an intruder; other accounts suggest that they might have had an argument and the shooting occurred in the heat of the moment - at the time of writing, his trial is underway. I don't think we'll ever truly know what happened that night - no-one else was there. But...
The US does not rank No 1 in mass shootings. There are 0.15 mass shooting fatalities per 100K in the US. Norway has 1.3 per 100k, Finland 0.34 per 100K and Finland 1.7 per 100K.

The trend of this thread seems to be to paint the US as something it is not. I do believe we are the free-est country in the world. That is why our President is often referred to as the leader of the free world. Being "more" free (less government intervention in individual's lives) does have consequences. At the same time giving up freedoms to feel "more safe" also has consequences (more government intervention in individual's private lives). I prefer to limit government and keep them out of my private life.

“Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.” Benjamin Franklin
  • #737
  • Edited 12:40pm Oct 31, 2016 12:26pm | Edited 12:40pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} So 83 children died from obtaining a firearm they shouldn't have been able to get in the first place. In the US there are MILLIONS of gun owners. In fact the above statement says "Nearly 1.7 million children live in households where guns are stored either loaded or not locked away, according to the San Francisco-based Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence" Again 84 died as a result. "Despite a 43% drop in road crash deaths of children 12 and younger from 2002-2011, more than 9,000 children in that age group died in crashes during that period,...
Yeah, only 83 children. Well, where I come from we value the lives of our children.

Cars, buses, planes, trains, horse and cart etc. is another argument altogether.
  • #738
  • Oct 31, 2016 12:49pm Oct 31, 2016 12:49pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} You are very wrong about gun owners understanding of the 2nd amendment. They fully understand it and that is why they bristle every time it is attacked. This simple but very true phrase is one of many things that makes America exceptional. Many would die to keep this right intact. It is under attack but I believe it will survive. I guess one has to be American to really understand. Furthermore if you've never owned a firearm, shot one or assumed the responsibility that comes with gun ownership then it really is difficult to understand the...
I am 100 % in favor of an armed citizenry, provided they see it as a privilege and a responsibility and not a right.
I don't see anything to be proud of.
Militia, by definition, does not mean "anybody", and it also implies "professional" and "training".
Anyone with the mentality that they must have a gun because it is their right would be useless in actual combat.
  • #739
  • Oct 31, 2016 12:54pm Oct 31, 2016 12:54pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} Yeah, only 83 children. Well, where I come from we value the lives of our children. Cars, buses, planes, trains, horse and cart etc. is another argument altogether.
You miss the point completely. You can't protect everyone from everything. People die.
  • #740
  • Oct 31, 2016 1:02pm Oct 31, 2016 1:02pm
Quoting Mingary
{quote} I am 100 % in favor of an armed citizenry, provided they see it as a privilege and a responsibility and not a right. I don't see anything to be proud of. Militia, by definition, does not mean "anybody", and it also implies "professional" and "training". Anyone with the mentality that they must have a gun because it is their right would be useless in actual combat.
In the US it is a right.

I am very proud of it.

You don't understand "militia" as it is referred to in our constitution. It has nothing to do with the military or anything like that. A little studying will reveal the real intent of an armed militia was the ant-federalists and federalists wanting to be able to protect themselves from an overly powerful government in addition to being able to protect themselves in general.

Regarding your comment "useless in combat": You assume all of us gun owners buy a gun and do nothing else. the vast majority of gun owners practice shooting their weapons and many do undergo some form of training. I have been operating firearms since I was 6 years old. I assure you I can operate my weapons exceedingly well and I to date have no formal training. You don't need to undergo combat training to be able to protect yourself. It's really just a ridiculous assertion.
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