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Profitunity (Chaos) Trading System by Bill Williams

  • #1,501
  • Oct 27, 2015 3:26pm Oct 27, 2015 3:26pm
Quoting cornetin
Hello everyone! I've read all three of Bill Williams' books and I'm making some nice profits already, although I'm still learning and making some mistakes. Now I have a question for all of you guys who use this system. In New Trading Dimensions the first signal to take is the fractal and after this you take all signals in that direction. Then in Trading Chaos 2 you use a divergent bar as your first signal and add on with the AO and the fractal. The question is, being your very first entry a divergent bar, do you add on with all of the signals explained...

i will trade the latest one book (trading chaos 2) as per home study course
Novice Trader
  • #1,502
  • Nov 4, 2015 2:40pm Nov 4, 2015 2:40pm
Quoting cornetin
Hello everyone! I've read all three of Bill Williams' books and I'm making some nice profits already, although I'm still learning and making some mistakes. Now I have a question for all of you guys who use this system. In New Trading Dimensions the first signal to take is the fractal and after this you take all signals in that direction. Then in Trading Chaos 2 you use a divergent bar as your first signal and add on with the AO and the fractal. The question is, being your very first entry a divergent bar, do you add on with all of the signals explained...
Very good question; too bad you never got an answer. I think just start off with the BW basics and be patient can pay off big time. For example, Fractals -

Fractals

Fractals generate the following signals:

• If a buy fractal is above the Alligator's teeth (the red line) we would place a Buy Stop one tick above the high of the up fractal;

• If a sell fractal is below the Alligator's teeth (the red line) we would place a Sell Stop one tick below the low of the fractal sell signal.

• We would not take a buy if a fractal is formed below the Alligator's teeth.

• We would not take a sell if a fractal is formed above the Alligator's teeth.

Fractals are valid until they are either triggered or a new fractal in the same direction appears (in this case the previous signal has to be ignored and the pending order has to be deleted).
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5-11-2015 6-34-30 AM.png Size: 41 KB
It takes a lot for me to IGNORE you, but you can try.
  • #1,503
  • Jan 5, 2016 7:23am Jan 5, 2016 7:23am
Hello All,
Dear FED77 I am using the indicators you have posted. Is there any way to change the color of the FIBO LEVELS of
indicator 1-2-3 Pattern MTF v3.1.mq4. The color of the Fibo can be changed but I couldn't find the line relating to the color of the FIB LEVELS they are YELLOW, and I'd rather use a white background.
Thanks
  • #1,504
  • Jan 16, 2016 3:26pm Jan 16, 2016 3:26pm
Quoting Erebus
{quote} Very good question; too bad you never got an answer. I think just start off with the BW basics and be patient can pay off big time. For example, Fractals
Hi guys!
Haven't been here in forever, used to post on this system years ago when I really started learning it.
Until today I am still actively trading it, and loving it, too With enough patience, this system being applied correctly can make you the profits you desire .. to underline this and the above quote I am attaching a current trade this system has provided. It's on USD/CAD and a weekly TF, this may seem extremely long for some of you, but it produces nice trends.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: USDCADWeekly.png Size: 62 KB
The Essentials of Trading: Emotions, Risk Mgt, Price.
  • #1,505
  • Edited 9:17pm Jan 17, 2016 1:37pm | Edited 9:17pm
I'm still doing it too, my login used to be Green River but I lost my login, hence the new handle. Slight's weekly approach has kept him in the game making money (good to hear you're around Slight). For awhile there I think most were frustrated in the daily charts as seen in the historic under performance of trend following managers. I took 3 years off (from full time trading) but I'm starting up again now. Here's to 2016!
John
  • #1,506
  • Jan 18, 2016 10:37am Jan 18, 2016 10:37am
Quoting Cirrus123
I'm still doing it too, my login used to be Green River but I lost my login, hence the new handle. Slight's weekly approach has kept him in the game making money (good to hear you're around Slight). For awhile there I think most were frustrated in the daily charts as seen in the historic under performance of trend following managers. I took 3 years off (from full time trading) but I'm starting up again now. Here's to 2016! John
Hey Cirrus! Good to hear from you, I wrote an email to you a while ago, but it didn't get delivered.
Weekly trading is advisable these days, esp. since I am using the method for trendfollowing only - no BDBs or anything. You are right saying that underperformance was visible with hedge funds using the approach, too. However, that's the nature of the game and can happen anytime again... The weekly is the best timeframe to do trendfollowing in my opinion, seems market noise has found it's way from intraday charts onto the daily timeframe You just need a lot of patience to trade so high up there.
The Essentials of Trading: Emotions, Risk Mgt, Price.
  • #1,507
  • Feb 5, 2016 7:48pm Feb 5, 2016 7:48pm
Quoting Slight
{quote} Hey Cirrus! Good to hear from you, I wrote an email to you a while ago, but it didn't get delivered. Weekly trading is advisable these days, esp. since I am using the method for trendfollowing only - no BDBs or anything. You are right saying that underperformance was visible with hedge funds using the approach, too. However, that's the nature of the game and can happen anytime again... The weekly is the best timeframe to do trendfollowing in my opinion, seems market noise has found it's way from intraday charts onto the daily timeframe ...
Welcome back slight. seem this Chaos trading will come to alive again. I have question, why you not use BDB again ?
  • #1,508
  • Feb 6, 2016 3:57am Feb 6, 2016 3:57am
Quoting pipfirst
{quote} Welcome back slight. seem this Chaos trading will come to alive again. I have question, why you not use BDB again ?
Hi!
BDB is for top and bottom fishing. Not what the system is designed to do, it's a trend trading system. They are also not profitable in the long run when used as entries.
That's why I never use them, only sometimes for exits when there is huge angulation between the moving averages and price.
The Essentials of Trading: Emotions, Risk Mgt, Price.
  • #1,509
  • Feb 8, 2016 2:49pm Feb 8, 2016 2:49pm
Quoting isto
Hello traders, I recently found out chaos system and read the books about it (by Bill Williams). I was convinced by the reading I tried the system for a while... I seems worthable for me and I didn't find discussions here about this trading system and here it is: Profitunity System On the chart apply following tools Alligator - Three SMAs (13/8/5) with a future offset of 8/5/3 respactively. Fractals - 5 bars sequence where middle one has highest High / lowest Low and its preceded and followed two bars have lower highs /...
Thanks for share your system! Can you please upload a .tpl file so can be more easy for us to install it? Ty ^^
  • #1,510
  • Feb 8, 2016 3:30pm Feb 8, 2016 3:30pm
Quoting JCAlcalde
{quote} Thanks for share your system! Can you please upload a .tpl file so can be more easy for us to install it? Ty ^^
It's not his template. It's been developed by Profitunity.
You can easily apply the indicators using the what seems the most popular charting platform: Metatrader 4. They are buildt-in: Alligator, Fractals, Aweseome Oscillator.
The Essentials of Trading: Emotions, Risk Mgt, Price.
  • #1,511
  • Feb 14, 2016 11:14am Feb 14, 2016 11:14am
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE PURPLE LINE IN ...... itradeAIM is.

Looks like MA of some sort

can you share the parameters with me please

http://www.forexfactory.com/attachme...1&d=1365703829
  • #1,512
  • Feb 15, 2016 7:26am Feb 15, 2016 7:26am
Quoting jvp999
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT THE PURPLE LINE IN ...... itradeAIM is. Looks like MA of some sort can you share the parameters with me please {image}

you could always buy the system, you may find out then.....

just a thought....
  • #1,513
  • Feb 17, 2016 1:04pm Feb 17, 2016 1:04pm
These signals all repaint and are statistically proven to not give an edge. Really wonder why some still follow this.
  • #1,514
  • Feb 17, 2016 3:24pm Feb 17, 2016 3:24pm
Quoting Sonofsin5
These signals all repaint and are statistically proven to not give an edge. Really wonder why some still follow this.
Repaint? Within 11 years I haven`t noticed this once. Statistically proven it won`t work? Show me the proof. Why still use it? Maybe we just make money?
  • #1,515
  • Feb 17, 2016 6:15pm Feb 17, 2016 6:15pm
Quoting Forex37
{quote} Repaint? Within 11 years I haven`t noticed this once. Statistically proven it won`t work? Show me the proof. Why still use it? Maybe we just make money?
Repaint is like a expression used by people that do not understand that almost all things repaint to some extent. And it doesn't matter because real traders are using the price bars for entry and the indicators for entries.

Generally it is lack of understanding trading that causes people to remark re repaint.
  • #1,516
  • Feb 17, 2016 8:12pm Feb 17, 2016 8:12pm
Quoting Forex37
{quote} Repaint? Within 11 years I haven`t noticed this once. Statistically proven it won`t work? Show me the proof. Why still use it? Maybe we just make money?
I purchased Profitunity's course in the mid 2000's and studied and followed the methods intensely; also had regular conversations with Justine, Bills daughter.
I will paste a quote from another trader who used Bills method and used to be regular on this site, he also did the private mentoring. "Dr. Bill Williams made some changes a few years ago. He does not use the AC or the Zone add-ons any longer. He uses just the AO and now the RSI only, set at 80/20 with a period of 9.

He also added another simple moving average (the purple line) set at 6 with a displacement at 3. This is used to exit. If you have 2 bars that close below the purple line, the exit would be one tick below the lowest bar (if long) or one tick above the highest bar (if short). You can also use the green line if a bar closes below (long) it or above it (short). He uses the purple line close as he says it can keep him in the trend longer which it does."

If you have been trading this for 11 years and haven't noticed the AO or AC repaint I dont know what to say. That's another problem in entirety.
What I will mention is that this was at first designed for stocks, and with the rapid influence and changes in market behavior now done by algo's and black boxes I dont have any more reason to follow this.
If by some reason this method is winning for you then I would say keep at it and happy profits.
I have never met one profitable trader using these methods, but then again, I have never met many profitable retail traders.
Good luck!
  • #1,517
  • Feb 17, 2016 8:54pm Feb 17, 2016 8:54pm
I have made a few dollars with the system trading manually. and a few more with an EA that I made.

Many retail traders make some profits..... few of them disclose.
  • #1,518
  • Feb 27, 2016 8:26am Feb 27, 2016 8:26am
hi guys .. i been trading for n years and i tried lots of trading strategies and blah blah blah !!
for god sake if u actually read bill williams book u find that at least 2/3 of his books are about psychology aspect of trading .. i wonder why ?
he specifically says "there's no holy grail in trading" and after that he start to talk about 3 wise man signals ... do u get whats going on ?
if u experience enough u most already know that u need a "well written mechanical strategy" to trade cause human beings are prone to systemical errors
and we need to strategies to avoid them & bill williams gives us a AtoZ strategy ! that's good enough for me . it has price action & momentum in it and thats
just enough . beside that in all of his work u can see he's talking about market structure and elliott waves.
i know this for sure if u got good grasp of wave on analysis to found that where u are right now (correction or impulse) u can make money with alligator alone.
so stop complaining about strategies and try to look for loosing behaviors in urself.
p.s : it need some little adjustment to each instrument. for example i dont do add to position thingy using AO when i trade USOIL in m5 . or i personally use 2 pip
instead of 1 pip for below bar stops
  • #1,519
  • Feb 27, 2016 8:38am Feb 27, 2016 8:38am
Quoting KumoBreaker
hi guys .. i been trading for n years and i tried lots of trading strategies and blah blah blah !! for god sake if u actually read bill williams book u find that at least 2/3 of his books are about psychology aspect of trading .. i wonder why ? he specifically says "there's no holy grail in trading" and after that he start to talk about 3 wise man signals ... do u get whats going on ? if u experience enough u most already know that u need a "well written mechanical strategy" to trade cause human beings are prone to systemical errors and we need...
Any system is profitable provided one gets out early from losers and let the winners run.That's it.
Having said that Bill Williams not using his own original indicators anymore AO AC already speaks volumes about his system.
Most people don't realize that almost all Oscillators are based on moving averages so placing 3 MA's on the chart then adding 2 oscillators saying the same is overkill.
Regards
In trading, you have to be defensive and aggressive at the same time
  • #1,520
  • Feb 27, 2016 1:19pm Feb 27, 2016 1:19pm
Quoting Davit
{quote} Any system is profitable provided one gets out early from losers and let the winners run.That's it. Having said that Bill Williams not using his own original indicators anymore AO AC already speaks volumes about his system. Most people don't realize that almost all Oscillators are based on moving averages so placing 3 MA's on the chart then adding 2 oscillators saying the same is overkill. Regards
so there's two things :
1) it doesnt matter if B . W using his tool to trade or not cause we dont know whats he's after , as long as i know he's claiming he's tools are still profitable. thats all matters
2)i agree with u abuot over using MA s but if u read his last book he said signal which produced with 3 wise man (fractal - AO & alligator) are have 99.5% confidence level like signals created by their mainframe computer using nonlinear feedback calculus(exact word from book)
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