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Experience as a trader

  • #21
  • Mar 2, 2015 9:22am Mar 2, 2015 9:22am
Hi

I've been failing at trading for about 4 years now. Mix of paper and real trading both loosing. Anyway I stuck rigidly to paper trading a system and was profitable for 3 months and making paper money consistently. So I've just moved back to real money (small amounts) about 2 weeks ago, and done nothing but lose money. I don't get it, same rules, same stops but just get stopped out, just p****d off. Just taking one loss after another is grinding me down, felt like throwing my computer through the window today. I'm trading smallest amount possible so thankfully not losing ££££s. I've honestly backtested this system till I'm sick of if testing and recording every single paper trade I've made but real money it just blows up in my face.
  • #22
  • Mar 2, 2015 11:21am Mar 2, 2015 11:21am
Well well... I blow many live account, not because of my trading, is because of scaming commercial EA. There is so many environment factors which could possibly contribute to failure of these EA, even thought the owner live account is still working great. Not sure the real reason, and I won't trust any of these valuable EA.

Learn myself of how to code EA, indicator, scripts, somemore work with VBA excel language. Code with my bare hand give me reliable of the system result. However, I have tested so many system with EA that coded by myself, all couldn't be standstill in the end. So it is hard for a trading strategy to be applied into systematic trading model.

Done some research on trade and money management, know how these model work. So I define and build myself few models. Eventually, it helps with trading result.

Is time to summary all my finding based n several years of trading experience, it seem that I have understand some hindsight concept, now I could trade successfully, with 20% minimum return monthly. Good to go.
  • #23
  • Mar 2, 2015 2:10pm Mar 2, 2015 2:10pm
Quoting ~bull.bear~
Well well... I blow many live account, not because of my trading, is because of scaming commercial EA. There is so many environment factors which could possibly contribute to failure of these EA, even thought the owner live account is still working great. Not sure the real reason, and I won't trust any of these valuable EA. Learn myself of how to code EA, indicator, scripts, somemore work with VBA excel language. Code with my bare hand give me reliable of the system result. However, I have tested so many system with EA that coded by myself, all...
those who can't trade, teach. I am always skeptical of people selling their strategies. Strategies eventually die unless it is tweeked to changing market environments.
Trade what you see, not what you think!
  • #24
  • Mar 2, 2015 2:45pm Mar 2, 2015 2:45pm
Quoting littlemary01
Hi I've been failing at trading for about 4 years now. Mix of paper and real trading both loosing. Anyway I stuck rigidly to paper trading a system and was profitable for 3 months and making paper money consistently. So I've just moved back to real money (small amounts) about 2 weeks ago, and done nothing but lose money. I don't get it, same rules, same stops but just get stopped out, just p****d off. Just taking one loss after another is grinding me down, felt like throwing my computer through the window today. I'm trading smallest amount possible...
Its very frustrating, and understandably so.. I would advice, in order for you to examine what is going wrong, because theoretically if you are doing something "consecutively" It is good, now it might sounds crazy but in essence you are hitting with precious the problem is your accuracy. Your trades end up in the opposite lane, now you need to examine the larger picture of where the problem lays, you said you get stopped out.. is your stoploss to low for volatility? Do you feel your taking revenge trades, it comes down to a process of trying to fix something, you know something isn't working properly so you need to diagnose the problem, so you need to go over every aspect and determine, am I doing this right? or am I doing that right? Sometimes we as traders tend to use things that don't work.. but we are "comfortable" with them change is a hard thing, and sometimes a complete change is needed. Throw out the old strategy, and do something completely different, and then compare that to your previous results. Not only on black and white basis, but in the long run is there any changes better trades/mixed results etc.. Becoming profitable and consistent is not as easy as black and white sometimes small result change can open a path to a more better strategy by tweaking things in its favor.

It all comes down to understanding that, I am on the path. I just need to adjust my bearings. Examine everything from your behavior to your strategy, and don't be afraid to make a change, can always come back to what you were previously doing.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #25
  • Mar 2, 2015 2:48pm Mar 2, 2015 2:48pm
Quoting OMGtrader
{quote} those who can't trade, teach. I am always skeptical of people selling their strategies. Strategies eventually die unless it is tweeked to changing market environments.
Yup, sometimes were in a perfect bullish market.. and strategy works like a charm until we enter the sideways market for the next year and that strategy becomes completely useless. A good strategy is one that was created to handle most market conditions that have been observed, can't create something for the unknown, but my idea is that if situations re-create themselves the strategy is already "adjusted" to be able to trade in them. If there is 6 different scenarios between market volatility the strategy is able to handle them without requiring to adjust.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #26
  • Mar 3, 2015 3:45am Mar 3, 2015 3:45am
Quoting palabara
{quote} Yup, sometimes were in a perfect bullish market.. and strategy works like a charm until we enter the sideways market for the next year and that strategy becomes completely useless. A good strategy is one that was created to handle most market conditions that have been observed, can't create something for the unknown, but my idea is that if situations re-create themselves the strategy is already "adjusted" to be able to trade in them. If there is 6 different scenarios between market volatility the strategy is able to handle them...
You are right. Market environment will change after a period of time. Even if to know which strategy to be used, but EA couldn't recognize how to apply which strategy for current market environment. The only way I do is entry based on manually, other than that according to EA for management.
  • #27
  • Mar 3, 2015 7:41am Mar 3, 2015 7:41am
So I was just thinking, things been sorta quite from Greece since they reached the 4 month agreement.. Euro kind of sank on the fact that QE is coming next week, like offically. Otherwise there is a quite in the markets no dramatics. Markets have sorta been in a tight range though for the last month. Just my observations, not forecasting anything.. Just describing the view from my chair lol.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #28
  • Mar 3, 2015 8:18pm Mar 3, 2015 8:18pm
I was just thinking today.. what if more people were successful in Forex. What would this forums be like? How would things be like in general? Would Forex have more or less money to go around as more people would be drinking from the well? Would everyone want to be a Forex trader? Its an interesting this discussion from another perspective of "What if" things were opposite.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #29
  • Mar 8, 2015 1:54pm Mar 8, 2015 1:54pm
I was thinking about my experience, like reminiscing and the lowest point of my trading was 7 years ago, when I was trading for 7 years. Even though at that point, I've had a lot of experience. I was still failing to be consistent. I'd have a few good months build up nice % and then lose it all, and it would be really big devastating blows. I felt at that time, I've been trading for so many years and I was still on step one. That I couldn't break out of my cycles, and it just felt really depressing. I started to doubt about ever learning or making it in Forex, and felt like a loser. I can't control my self to be able to keep the profits I was making, I felt lot of anger and resentment.

I wanted to share this with people.. I'm sure it can relate to a lot of people, and looking back at it now. Still seems depressing lol. Still managed to overcome the lowest period of my trading career, well that and when I first started and my reality or riches got shattered right away.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #30
  • Mar 11, 2015 5:31pm Mar 11, 2015 5:31pm
Quoting palabara
I was thinking about my experience, like reminiscing and the lowest point of my trading was 7 years ago, when I was trading for 7 years. Even though at that point, I've had a lot of experience. I was still failing to be consistent. I'd have a few good months build up nice % and then lose it all, and it would be really big devastating blows. I felt at that time, I've been trading for so many years and I was still on step one. That I couldn't break out of my cycles, and it just felt really depressing. I started to doubt about ever learning or making...

Yes, I can truly understand your feeling. I too have almost 3 years of live trading and 5 year of demo trading. However, perhaps you should change your trading mindset related to this forex trading. Forex trading should treat it as business, achieving consistency is very very important. I have seen many of the people try to bet big when it comes to trading. This will have two results, either win BIG or lose BIG! But in the long run, the probability of losing will be very high. That's why almost 90% of the trader end up in losing money. I didn't say professional trader don't losing money too. The major different between professional trader and newbie trader is the mindset itself.

Wishes you all the best yeah in trading carrer
  • #31
  • Mar 13, 2015 10:00am Mar 13, 2015 10:00am
Quoting TradeProfit
{quote} Yes, I can truly understand your feeling. I too have almost 3 years of live trading and 5 year of demo trading. However, perhaps you should change your trading mindset related to this forex trading. Forex trading should treat it as business, achieving consistency is very very important. I have seen many of the people try to bet big when it comes to trading. This will have two results, either win BIG or lose BIG! But in the long run, the probability of losing will be very high. That's why almost 90% of the trader end up in losing money. I...
Indeed, I was just relating previous experience. I appreciate the comment. Makes me feel like I'm not having a conversation with myself. By resonating experiences to other trades its a cycle that is shared by all and even though all the paths are individual we all walk the same one just at different paces.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #32
  • Edited 9:36pm Mar 13, 2015 9:21pm | Edited 9:36pm
great thread and very promising!
i'll share my experience with you as soon as i'll have some time to do so.
right now i'm on my way to the airport (going home). just arrived.

palabara,
some people like to forecast. there's something mystical in predicting the future. others like to have the cassandra syndrome (by warning everyone and ending with "i've told you"). few have the guts to swallow their forecasts, and i refer to the extreme weather heavy signs about to happen, and put as little as $100 on their ideas.
forecasts come mainly from influential figures. gurus don't matter here that much. from people that move the markets or that are at the top of this trophic chain. i remember david tepper screaming of optimism at cnbc and reducing the same day his entire long position.
forecasts have a mystical allure (some are crazy, some are genius, some are random). other forecasts have a function.

before going to buy a coke from the vending machine. i still like the farmer that knows there are seasons. and plants and harvests his crops based on this robust and simple knowledge. if she/he was to listen to the daily forecast... i'm mostly a scalper nowadays, and still believe in seasons. it's about the nature of everything and not about everything in nature.

good luck and promise to return here!
  • #33
  • Mar 13, 2015 10:59pm Mar 13, 2015 10:59pm
Quoting heph
great thread and very promising! i'll share my experience with you as soon as i'll have some time to do so. right now i'm on my way to the airport (going home). just arrived. palabara, some people like to forecast. there's something mystical in predicting the future. others like to have the cassandra syndrome (by warning everyone and ending with "i've told you"). few have the guts to swallow their forecasts, and i refer to the extreme weather heavy signs about to happen, and put as little as $100 on their ideas. forecasts come mainly from influential...
Thanks heph.

I've seen your discussion on the FXCM thread, sorry you've had a bad experience with them. I've also had my run of the mill with FXCM early in my trading career. I've find it amusing how my comments always get dodged by their PR department, they can't deny what I'm saying nor wish to head into that territory.

It's always funny with the loud spectacle traders of all markets on TV how they contradict themselves left and right and still don't lose credibility at least not to get booted or be like they don't know what they are talking about, I mean they do get criticized, but if this was any other field you'd be out of a job tomorrow lol.

I've read a while back an interesting story about the great depression of 1930.. Part of the depression reflected from 2 variables. 1) regular joe's tried to follow the loud mouths of back in the day the super traders.. So those traders what they did was they would announce what they were doing (the way they announced it was through the grape vine on purpose) and the mob would follow. Once the super traders will call them achieved their goals they sell position and flip it, and left all the beg holders holding the bags. 2) people had access to a lot of margin.. so they traded WAY above their balances so when they were left holding the bags they took losses into the negative no margin call in the 1930's. It was one of the biggest reason of the bear run that lead the depression.

85 years later.. things have not changed by a lot.. people still follow the loud mouth traders only the impacts now are more subdued from market controls, but people stilled get burned regardless.. My philosophy is when you follow someone else you don't know where they'll lead you. Insert the tune blinded by the light replace with cash lol.

I'm looking forward to hear your story and transition to a scalper.
There are those who know, and there are those who don't know.
  • #34
  • Edited 3:02am Mar 14, 2015 1:14am | Edited 3:02am
Oh, FXCM, i didn't forget my clinch with Jason. They were a bunch of morrons from the very beginning. They were agresively cornering their clients with every trick in the book. Then they found a monopoly they could play with in the US because of the narrow niche of brokers allowed by the regulatory restrictions/impositions on capital. They had the capital and they also had a pipe dream. They discovered they were a great broker, the greatest, the biggest of them all.

It's like a dictator going full-retard. They sell things that are otherwise free. They invent and initiate things other invented or initiated a long time ago. They aren't the biggest, the greatest or anything like this. But they said it until they started to really believe it was true. If they felt insecure, they started to say they were a loved broker in a world of hated brokers. And let's put it this way, they found risk-management after the 15th of January!

Since they are now the true pundits, these superb mandarins of risk-management, they have become prime-time educators when it comes to liquidity traps (you've seen the video? because I didn't). It makes me remember of British Petroleum before they spilled all they had over the coast, they were also obsessed with risk-management. If one was going down the stairs with a cup of coffee in one's hand, they had a standard procedure to stop silly things like this to happen. So when they spilled their tanks over the coast, they realized they had no plan B!

We all love risk-management. It's such an abstruse and exquisite word that some people really get aroused by using it, physically I believe. How can you resist to ineffable sounds such as I work in the risk department or from a risk-management point of view? It's like saying everyone's going to heaven. But does anyone agree to die one day? Because we have to!

Now they are the victim/hero of forex. At least, they are selling Lucid! Some of the orders might finally hit other LPs than their own division! Today I suspect was champagne day for them! They survived! They were believed! They weren't! Revenues fell 41% from january to february and they will stay the same until the next quarter. Stock will tank again sooner or later. Not that the stock is the real thing here - but competent people, if they have any left, will leave the firm.

Let me start with my story and I'll go on tomorrow. Someone asked me what I was doing for a living. I worry!
This is what I do! But I don't want to worry for my broker(s) or because of my broker(s).

Good luck!
  • #35
  • Mar 14, 2015 4:36pm Mar 14, 2015 4:36pm
My beginnings are humble. I had no background in finance or business nor have I felt that I was ever qualified to pursue this path. So what made me approach this field? I was playing poker on-line, where I was a moderate winner on PokerStars, which made me think about probabilities all day long. One day i found out a friend of mine started to invest in the stock market. He took all his savings and invested in a stock. He had books, he was talking gibberish like S/L, T/P, broker is doing this, broker is doing that, in one word he had the microbe, the fever, and all. Three months later he was down 75%. He cashed out and never ever wanted to hear about investing again. Then my brother-in-law had a foreign exchange account – which I remember sounded very esoterical to me. He showed me what he did, how he back-tested indicators, strategies, etc. The best part is that he helped me download a demo account with FXDD, which stayed in my computer for another year untouched. His story is that he had lost big time, twice, and now was coding/decoding/compiling/decompiling just to have a margin of safety for another try. Years later he was talking price action, the hell with indicators, nothing works but price action. I asked him periodically how was his trading (for my own entertainment), he said he was breaking even, had to work more, etc. Nowadays he runs a small business and he doesn’t care for trading, price action or anything. Which is totally fine, and brave!

Before starting my own journey, I already had this feeling that people end up losing money and finally give up. I had to promise myself that I would be different. But how different could I be, knowing that 90% lose money in the long run? I had this heretical idea, which I still have, that there’s something like a shared knowledge, established, socialized and authoritative knowledge that makes most of the aspiring traders learn how to trade, that ends up being nothing but a pile of garbage. I can find it on FF in almost any thread. One guy is successful, or smart, or someone with reputation, and starts teaching others how to trade. And everyone learns. If you’re „smarter” than the average FF member, you’re most likely to learn mathematics, statistical modelling, quantitative crap, portfolio allocation, from a professor at university, from a Nobel Prize winner (if you have the brains, the money, or the chance to get into an Ivy school). And guess what? You’ll learn, because they teach, because they have the authority to teach! And guess what? That’s good! Because you’ll get a good job (or become popular yourself on FF)! I’m not trying to be sarcastic!

Humans act collectively, while specializing individually, to survive collectively and not individually. Keep that in mind. We do not differ much from ants. Some are workers, some are warriors, few have the chance to screw the Queen and contribute to the survival of the colony! If an ant finds a piece of a biscuit, it will release tons of chemical traits for other ants to find the source and appropriate it collectively. I’d say that the process of selecting and developing qualities both for ants or for humans is random. Chemical traits for humans are nothing but information. You are good, you are smart, you are ugly, you suck at math. We don’t need many proofs – all is needed is to exchange several chunks of information and facilitate the selection. We need selection and specialization. Why? That’s complex! That belongs to the realms of complexity. So feeding yourself with trading knowledge means to adhere to this (pre)selection. And you kind of know that collectively we are all losers.

Here’s the $100 bucks question: what makes you want to learn to be a trader/loser (the most probable thing that’s happening to you right now)? The desire to be validated by someone in authority, by someone that has the power to validate. You can be a trader if someone pretending to be a trader, or someone that is a trader, or some professor, or some who cares who will say that you are a trader (like you’re not ugly, you’re not stupid, you don’t suck). You learn to listen, to follow, to be taught (things that you could learn by yourself) in order to call yourself a trader (and teach others to be traders). If you look around, you’ll see there are many teachers and many traders (i didn’t figure out a ratio). They are all losing for the long term. Whatever works today stops working tomorrow. They are all right and they are all wrong, depending on how you look at it. Why better not trying to see for yourself, with your own eyes, what’s to be seen for yourself and only by yourself? And see from there if you call yourself a trader, if you can make money, and so on.
Validate yourself!
What's wrong with being wrong? There's nothing wrong at all! But here is where the journey starts for most of us. We take the risk to stand against the crowd!
  • #36
  • Mar 14, 2015 5:01pm Mar 14, 2015 5:01pm
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we don't predict, we only ride
  • #37
  • Mar 14, 2015 5:25pm Mar 14, 2015 5:25pm
at the beginning of my journey....... i thought that this trading is easy and simple, just try to search or create "a system" trading and then plan by that system.
than ohhh many accounts blown up, and I am a stubborn person. try finding a system, buy some system etc and always ended blow the account. till finally i surender about the simple, and i shout ohhhh this is not a simple. I try to open my head my heart and asking for my self again again and again. finally i surrender and I ask to my self "How to be a trader" without words as simple, easy money or getting rich quick etc but just only one question statement "how to be a trader". from that point I totally do different thing from my experience before, I do all what must be do to become a trader, I learn again. learn, learn and learn. from the beginning about this world, from price, price bars, time, time framing, trend, channel etc, and now still learn and forever learn for me. I hope will become true master trader and i know that this is absolutely is not a simple and easy profession. I agree with some brothers in here that said this is hard business. and what i worry now is what happen to USDCHF, because oh my god....even I already become a master trader when that happen to a pair or commodity which i trade...ohhh I hope on lucky side.
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #38
  • Mar 14, 2015 6:29pm Mar 14, 2015 6:29pm
Been trading for 6 years. I DO NOT recommend demoing its better to open up a live account and throw in money you can live without.
Your going to lose but you have to think about it as a tuition for an education in an industry you want to make money in. Only thing demo is good for is to setup up your chart and get a feel for it. Once your ready open up a 200 dollar account and start trading. The sooner you go through the emotional roller coaster and get over it the sooner you will make money. The longer you demo the longer it takes for you to get over the real challenges in forex and that is your emotions.

Also i cannot stress this enough, MONEY MANAGEMENT. You have to stick to at least a 1:1 RR and not touch it. If that means you have to walk away from your trade then do it. Most ppl go bust because they hang on to losing trades and close out winning ones. Again that is your emotions you have to overcome.

Factor in broker spreads and other cheap shots all brokers use it makes it that much more challenging, but remember with a good money management system and getting your emotions in check all you have to do is win 30% of your trades and your in the green. Easier said then done...i know but it is the truth.

Everything else about systems, EA's, robots and so forth is garbage. Just read the charts, focus on certain times of day only and stay diligent with your RR and you will be successful. DONT GIVE UP, IT CAN BE DONE !
  • #39
  • Mar 14, 2015 6:50pm Mar 14, 2015 6:50pm
Quoting Chalkedon
Been trading for 6 years. I DO NOT recommend demoing its better to open up a live account and throw in money you can live without. Your going to lose but you have to think about it as a tuition for an education in an industry you want to make money in. Only thing demo is good for is to setup up your chart and get a feel for it. Once your ready open up a 200 dollar account and start trading. The sooner you go through the emotional roller coaster and get over it the sooner you will make money. The longer you demo the longer it takes for you to get...
oh my bro, "Everything else about systems, EA's, robots and so forth is garbage" you make me remembrance when i use that garbage a lot aaaaawwww ouch
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #40
  • Mar 15, 2015 1:05am Mar 15, 2015 1:05am
Quoting heph
My beginnings are humble. I had no background in finance or business nor have I felt that I was ever qualified to pursue this path. So what made me approach this field? I was playing poker on-line, where I was a moderate winner on PokerStars, which made me think about probabilities all day long. One day i found out a friend of mine started to invest in the stock market. He took all his savings and invested in a stock. He had books, he was talking gibberish like S/L, T/P, broker is doing this, broker is doing that, in one word he had the microbe,...
You are starting to see the light, just like I did. Avoid the Trading Systems at all cost. Imagine if you have found the Golden Goose. Will you share it? Heaven no! Many are naive to think that some gurus are willing to share their secrets with you at $199 per month. When you fail, they said you didn't follow the system or simply the market has changed! What the heaven! I have yet to seen any FF gurus showing any live statement, not one! Come on, they don't even have one proper month of profit t show? And they are having so many followers proclaiming the success of their beautiful indicators, and candlestick patterns. LOL.
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler.
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