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EUR/CHF

  • #13,781
  • Jan 15, 2015 10:41am Jan 15, 2015 10:41am
Quoting OMGtrader
{quote} I agree this is not an idea of over-leverage but terrible oversight and policy by the SNB. What the SNB has done is by creating market imbalance or market inefficiencies. This hampers the credibility and trust of the SNB in eyes of the global world. As policy makers they are responsible in easing the drop/rise of any currency movements. They essentially just dropped a nuke on the markets instead of dropping a nuke on the markets with a parachute, hard landing vs soft landing. It is obviously they would eventually get rid of the peg system...
I can't really attest to the SNB's action(s). I mean, I can agree that just dropping it on the world like that is going to have negative consequences somewhere down the line. I agree, in order to make money in the foreign exchange, one needs a degree of leverage. However, what's considered "good" money is relative to the individual trading. A person who, let's say, dumps their life savings into an FX account needs to make money more so than say, I do. The funds I trade aren't static. I didn't just fund an account and say "this is it, my one and only shot" - I'm the kinda person who funds, trades, and withdraws money from my account with the goal of having net positive equity at the end of a given month. Everyone's situation is different.

I leverage myself in accordance with the size of my account. I know some people around here (and across other forums) trading $1,000 accounts at 50-100K lots. Now, that's their business, I won't judge 'em for it but I wouldn't do that myself. Hell, I traded 1K lots for the longest time despite having a respectable balance. I never began this "venture" with the idea of million-dollar months and gold-plated Ferrari's in my head. Lots of folks do and the retail landscape is littered with the corpses of their blown accounts and shattered dreams.
  • #13,782
  • Jan 15, 2015 10:42am Jan 15, 2015 10:42am
People directing rage to SNB are absolutely right. But not because SNB had to protect traders - each trader has to protect himself.

Because SNB has the constitutional mandate to guarantee exchange stability in the interest of the confederation.

They culpably failed in that, have made the domestic stock market crash, export and tourism industry suffer significantly from a day to another. They have caused common people (working class) to loose their jobs, while helping rich Swiss with their shopping abroad and exploiting the situation..

They should be kept accountable, fired, prosecuted and (I think) sentenced.
  • #13,783
  • Jan 15, 2015 10:46am Jan 15, 2015 10:46am
Quoting OMGtrader
{quote} I agree this is not an idea of over-leverage but terrible oversight and policy by the SNB. What the SNB has done is by creating market imbalance or market inefficiencies. This hampers the credibility and trust of the SNB in eyes of the global world. As policy makers they are responsible in easing the drop/rise of any currency movements. They essentially just dropped a nuke on the markets instead of dropping a nuke on the markets with a parachute, hard landing vs soft landing. It is obviously they would eventually get rid of the peg system...
Logic thinking. Swiss NB did this disaster from panic. They got afraid more than market buyers and sellers, so decided to throw the towel very early and unnecessary, could had applied - 0.75% and waited for reaction until next week ECB, they effected the whole market with today's reckless action!

Nobody expected them to keep their "promise of utmost and unlimited" forever but not throw the towel this fast and childishly!
  • #13,784
  • Jan 15, 2015 10:51am Jan 15, 2015 10:51am
Quoting alaneth
I was here 2 yrs ago when 1,20 was in place. Lost everything due to over-leveraging of course like most of everyone else. Now I'm signing off. This is my last post. Farewell my friends....... I will be back only if SNB regrets their decision when too strong CHF causes bad deflation & damages their economy and SNB has no choice but to repeg EC again. Who knows this unpredictable bank.
SNB is a mofo
They didn't keep their oath. They also lost their credibility. It's already proved they have not that power to defend the market flow.
You cannot learn better without losing
  • #13,785
  • Jan 15, 2015 10:51am Jan 15, 2015 10:51am
I had a few entry orders on the board when I went to sleep with 20 - 25 pip stop losses. My broker is FXCM. As you can see from the attachment, my USD/CHF and GBP/CHF orders were filled at best price. However, my stop losses were filled at up to -1900 pips a few hours later. It doesn't seem that FXCM made any effort at all to fill my stop loss at best price. They just kind of shut down. I was willing to accept negative slippage. I've been trading for a long time and I've been on the wrong end of rate decisions and high impact data. Generally, negative slippage is on the order of 20-30 pips. I understand it's the nature of the market that a broker cannot stop an order at the requested price, but -1900 pips beyond a stop loss is pretty ridiculous. It makes it impossible to trade over time. This time it was CHF, next time JPY or USD. Terrorist attacks happen, banks fail, assassinations occur.. There's always something to shock the market. The lesson is that if you use entry orders, your account will eventually be wiped. I feel sorry for the people who were using their savings accounts to fund larger positions. They could have been long on USD/CHF for many months and built up a very profitable position only to have their account completely wiped. Luckily, I was just using a micro account to test FXCM's new pricing model. It did not work out too well

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  • #13,786
  • Jan 15, 2015 10:51am Jan 15, 2015 10:51am
Quoting OMGtrader
{quote} I agree this is not an idea of over-leverage but terrible oversight and policy by the SNB. What the SNB has done is by creating market imbalance or market inefficiencies. This hampers the credibility and trust of the SNB in eyes of the global world. As policy makers they are responsible in easing the drop/rise of any currency movements. They essentially just dropped a nuke on the markets instead of dropping a nuke on the markets with a parachute, hard landing vs soft landing. It is obviously they would eventually get rid of the peg system...
Its harsh but the reality is that the large banking institutions and the Central banks care not for the citizens. All the distrust for the banks that created the financial meltdown has done nothing for the average citizen. The disconnect and indifference the central players have with the citizens can be seen simply in the banks ability to further indebt society for the gains of a few.

We have in Australia, 4 major banks that make billions in profits every year, yet they still charge high fees, they charge you $2 to both look at your account at an ATM and to withdraw money from an ATM ($4 dollars if you check first to see if you have the funds to remove). It amazes me really at where we are today.

In the US, the biggest beneficiaries of the GFC were the banks who caused the problem, got a bail out and then used the Bail Out money from the Fed (not the government) to buy up homes, land and businesses that failed. That people put their trust in an entity like the SNB that used its power to steal money from the deposits of people through negative interest rates, which they have just compounded, instead of the usual tactic of theft ie Printing of money is so hard to comprehend and further more, considering the GFC is not even a decade old it just makes me wonder. Do people not learn anything.... For most, unfortunately not.
  • #13,787
  • Jan 15, 2015 10:57am Jan 15, 2015 10:57am
Forgetting about this pair, being a bull for so long, profiting from it despite today's loss. Honestly, despite the big shock today, I looked at the loss as if a number not money because I was prepared to afford it................

Looking at today's Swiss NB scandal from neutral point of view, couldn't understand it either!

Many criticism to the Swiss NB by people in different sectors within Switzerland. This is not easy, no game, no joke, CHF strengthened madly vs every currency on this planet. How can Swiss NBullXXXX deal with this now? Would they intervene? To 1.20 again? when they were able to do it to 1.30 before? Stupid CB
  • #13,788
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:01am Jan 15, 2015 11:01am
Quoting Harris27
Forgetting about this pair, being a bull for so long, profiting from it despite today's loss. Honestly, despite the big shock today, I looked at the loss as if a number not money because I was prepared to afford it................ Looking at today's Swiss NB scandal from neutral point of view, couldn't understand it either! Many criticism to the Swiss NB by people in different sectors within Switzerland. This is not easy, no game, no joke, CHF strengthened madly vs every currency on this planet. How can Swiss NBullXXXX deal with this now? Would...
No, they accepted long term plan by increasing negative deposit rate from -0.25 to -0.75
-2% was better to discontinue the cap. Trader's wouldn't hold franc too long
You cannot learn better without losing
  • #13,789
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:02am Jan 15, 2015 11:02am
Quoting OMGtrader
{quote} I agree this is not an idea of over-leverage but terrible oversight and policy by the SNB. What the SNB has done is by creating market imbalance or market inefficiencies. This hampers the credibility and trust of the SNB in eyes of the global world. As policy makers they are responsible in easing the drop/rise of any currency movements. They essentially just dropped a nuke on the markets instead of dropping a nuke on the markets with a parachute, hard landing vs soft landing. It is obviously they would eventually get rid of the peg system...
The way I look at it, this is the first domino. You can pretty much figure out which dominoes will follow. And it will follow.
  • #13,790
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:09am Jan 15, 2015 11:09am
Quoting ranger_lp
{quote} The way I look at it, this is the first domino. You can pretty much figure out which dominoes will follow. And it will follow.
I think some brokers can go bancrupt. My acc balance is -155 993 EUR
  • #13,791
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:12am Jan 15, 2015 11:12am
Last comment on the matter, at least for now anyway as it is 1.00 in the morning and I have had my fun.

IF people cannot see it I will try and break it down because so many think that the SNB bailed.

What happens to a high tensile spring as you enforce more load on it? What happens when the load is unleashed unexpectedly?

What happens to a gas cylinder when it reaches its maximum and you just add that little bit extra?

The SNB has promised for years to hold the peg. It has printed Billions, STOLEN purchasing power of the Franc so that the Swiss citizen lose out. It has STOLEN money directly from Swiss citizens bank accounts through the introduction of negative rates. All the while what has been happening in the world, particularly the EUR. The US dollar has strengthened (figuratively, not economically but I won't get into that here). The EUR has dropped for 1.38 to 1.30 to 1.25 to 1.20 and all the while the Swiss has been trying to devalue its currency against the weight of the EUR.

What chance does it honestly have? How much more compression weight from a devaluing EUR can the Swiss take. They chose not to reinstate their gold levels and instead found a new mechanism to avoid printing but that spring was get compressed harder, that Gas bottle was reaching critical point.

IF the SNB managed to intervene, they would have just delayed the inevitiable. It would have crashed at some point. That SPRING would have gone BOING, that GAS bottle EXPLODED. Can you control at the click of your fingers an exploding gas bottle?

Those blaming the SNB would have reinforced their beliefs in the Peg and continued trading recklessly had it risen this time. It would have delayed the inevitable crash in which you would have still come here and bitched and moaned about the SNB being a bunch of bastards.

IF you cannot see it then I am afraid there is nothing more anyone can say or do. There are laws that define all matter in space. Compression past a certain point, the stretching of elastic past its resistance break point and the breaking point of a gas valve past critical levels. All things have something in common (the SNB's promise included) and that is once that point is reach then Chaos occurs. This market is EXACTLY the same and todays results are absolute proof of it.
  • #13,792
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:28am Jan 15, 2015 11:28am
Quoting dd303
{quote} I think some brokers can go bancrupt. My acc balance is -155 993 EUR
Mines -351 278 SGD wow.

Multiply that by the number of clients your average broker have and take into account the amount of money your average broker have (a few mill, tens of mills for big brokers) and you can easily see them getting bankrupt.

But then again, most brokers are market makers, for all I know they could also be laughing all the way to the bank with all the money they made from their poor clients.
  • #13,793
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:30am Jan 15, 2015 11:30am
Childish uneducated comment^^^

"STOLEN purchasing power of the Franc so that the Swiss citizen lose out"

Hey do you know that 75% of those same citizens voted for the Swiss NB against the Gold referendum???

"IF the SNB managed to intervene, they would have just delayed the inevitiable. It would have crashed at some point"

We are smart enough to know that. Read what I said before, withdrawing profits......etc

We just wanted one or two 1.2097 not even intervention to give a bigger SXXt for a Swiss NB scandal like the one today!

Swiss NB ruined the market behavior for sometime.............
  • #13,794
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:32am Jan 15, 2015 11:32am
Quoting dd303
{quote} I think some brokers can go bancrupt. My acc balance is -155 993 EUR
95% have B-Books, never passed it to real market, this is why there's such negative balances.
  • #13,795
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:33am Jan 15, 2015 11:33am
This is what IB answers when you ask about negative equity:

"Dear Mr. xxx,

Should your account equity turn negative due to an event such as what happened today with the SNB and a fast moving market, then you would be responsible for making the account whole.

Regards,
Matt S."
  • #13,796
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:36am Jan 15, 2015 11:36am
Night cap reading

Its not only the people here that are bitter, but the followers of the person I posted charts of above. Human nature really to blame everyone else especially when your just following blindly, sitting at home hoping someone else will make you rich because your to inept and lazy to learn things for yourself.

The following Blind Faith comments pretty much sum up why evolution has failed to weed out those who just expect others to do for them and then blame those instead of looking at themselves. It might sound sadistic, but I had a good chuckle

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Funny, only 6 days ago he was the toast of the town! Ill bet those whose feed wasn't working are probably thanking their lucky stars

I'd say good night, but most of you probably won't sleep tonight, for those who do.... Good Night
  • #13,797
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:38am Jan 15, 2015 11:38am
Quoting Harris27
Childish uneducated comment^^^ "STOLEN purchasing power of the Franc so that the Swiss citizen lose out" Hey do you know that 75% of those same citizens voted for the Swiss NB against the Gold referendum??? "IF the SNB managed to intervene, they would have just delayed the inevitiable. It would have crashed at some point" We are smart enough to know that. Read what I said before, withdrawing profits......etc We just wanted one or two 1.2097 not even intervention to give a bigger SXXt for a Swiss NB scandal like the one today! Swiss NB ruined the...
You are an idiot, completely serious. You disregarded risk because you assumed the SNB had you back.

ITS YOU FAULT.

The snb had to shut down the peg because the euro might not even exist in a couple of years time, if you understood anything about central banks you would have realised that the snb has to sell those euros back into the market at some point in the future. If they take a loss on that, and it looks almost certain they will, the SNB passes on that loss to the swiss tax payers. That or face massive inflation because of the huge surplus of chf created to defend a worthless peg. The snb could not allow unlimited losses, or High inflation.

use you brain
  • #13,798
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:41am Jan 15, 2015 11:41am
For those of you who are unsure, you will need to pay back the negative amount stated in your account balance now.
I wonder how many people are going bankrupt because of this pair.
  • #13,799
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:44am Jan 15, 2015 11:44am
Quoting uslfd
For those of you who are unsure, you will need to pay back the negative amount stated in your account balance now. I wonder how many people are going bankrupt because of this pair.
My broker (fxpro) covers the loss so I dont care
  • #13,800
  • Jan 15, 2015 11:45am Jan 15, 2015 11:45am
Quoting Harris27
{quote} We conclude you are defending the Swiss NBullXXXX?? What reckless beliefs are you talking about? How many times they assured cap staying, last was few days ago. What overleverage are you talking about? What account could had resisted 500 pip fall in 1 minute and over -1500 pips in 5 minutes??? What technicals are you talking about? Eurchf was supposed to kiss 1.2080 smoothly. The reckless is in Swiss NBullXXXX removing the cap when they could had applied -0.75% alone, waiting for ECB next week or at worst do nothing, this stupid decision...
What did you expect them to do? What other way to abandon the cap do you see? The moment they announced their intention to remove the peg every bank, every hedge fund, every retail trader would have shorted like crazy. All of them would put an immense pressure on CB which would have had to absorb losses. They owe nothing to anybody.
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