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  • #6,201
  • Mar 15, 2014 2:03pm Mar 15, 2014 2:03pm
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} I am position trading although I don't use Graeme's entry or diversifying techniques. Which is what he suggested anyway. The profits are far greater than anything intra-day can offer.
Diversifying technique if I am not wrong could be initiated anytime when your positive trades is heading into a precipice. He called it diversify in place of closing. To think of several layers of stack positions in a given pair and the market suggesting a reversal . Either you have to close several of your positions or use the power of hedging. At the onset I had the understanding that Graeme never use SL, but people kept insisting a need to have one.
  • #6,202
  • Mar 15, 2014 8:33pm Mar 15, 2014 8:33pm
Hi all,
Just stumbled across this thread - been using a similar method to this for a while now and IMHO it's the only way to trade..
Thing I still have trouble with tho is hedging my positions
  • #6,203
  • Mar 17, 2014 4:57pm Mar 17, 2014 4:57pm
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} Yes I use hedged orders for various reasons, works fine for me. The secret with any of it is to remember what our end goals are, not to win, not to be great traders or analyst's, but to make profit.
Can you share how your method?
  • #6,204
  • Mar 25, 2014 3:52pm Mar 25, 2014 3:52pm
Hey 60min

Can you emphasis more on your stoploss, I read somewhere Graeme never used a stoploss?
  • #6,205
  • Mar 25, 2014 6:00pm Mar 25, 2014 6:00pm
Quoting pullice
Hey 60min Can you emphasis more on your stoploss, I read somewhere Graeme never used a stoploss?
I think Graeme suggested he would take an entry and if it didn't go his way quickly he would just close it out. He also suggested moving to break even fairly quickly.

Im looking for the high of the day (or week) in a downtrend and vice versa in an uptrend, so I just place my stop the other side.

here's a current example on sp500, its a h4 at the low of the week.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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tradewith60
  • #6,206
  • Mar 25, 2014 10:26pm Mar 25, 2014 10:26pm
i think what pipsEASY was doing is using small time frame (at some S/R based on his discretion), maybe 5m or 15m, trade momentum, meaning, every candle closed above the high of the previous up candle in a up trend (or below the low for a down trend). with momentum, the entry price is not easily re-visited immediately so that he could move the SL to break even ASAP, free trade.

in his flying budda explanation, his buddy trader will put the SL above the high plus some buffer (20-30 pips or so?), my interpretation is, every candle, regardless its time frame, define a range (of its own time frame of course), the range is broken as long as the next candle CLOSED above its high or below its low. this is very important. only by CLOSE, the range of that time frame is concluded broken. so if you just put 1 or 2 pips above the high and below the low, very likely, it will be taken out and price move in your expect direction.

with small time frame, and monitoring the price (sitting in front of screen), i believe it can be done easily WITHOUT pre-setting a hard SL, just wait for the price to conclude and close the trade manually if it turns out to be against you. but if you don't have the luxury to sit in front of screen, a hard SL has to be in place and very often, positions will be shaken out, that's frustrating.

i guess what pipsEASY was practising is more likely to be, close the trade if the entry candle did not manage to close above the previous candle high (for up trend) or below the previous candle low (for down trend) on a 5m chart so that he could claim his cut loss is very small, within 20 pips range (for some pairs, 20 pips cut loss can be applied to 15m chart). he also requested followers to play the 20 pips game if you recall, i strongly believe it can be done (due to the lack of screen time, i only managed to do a few rounds with success), as long as the chart is read correctly. he has always been promoting screen time and practice, read the chart like the back of the trader's own hand, that's what he meant.

and it's true if this technique is mastered, anyone can take a number of pips off table every day without following him on building up multiple positions. it doesn't matter, find anything suitable. personally i think what he was doing in building up positions was very similar to hedge funds practice. not sure if hedge funds diversify, but i think hedge funds do hold both long and short positions at some point of time, i think that's when pipsEASY found no clue where the market will go and he diversifies. that's more than enough for a retail trader, i believe.
  • #6,207
  • Mar 26, 2014 1:39pm Mar 26, 2014 1:39pm
Quoting zxdtrader
i think what pipsEASY was doing is using small time frame (at some S/R based on his discretion), maybe 5m or 15m, trade momentum, meaning, every candle closed above the high of the previous up candle in a up trend (or below the low for a down trend). with momentum, the entry price is not easily re-visited immediately so that he could move the SL to break even ASAP, free trade. in .
You really summarized it man. Tq.
-happyTrading, maaj-
  • #6,208
  • Mar 26, 2014 3:13pm Mar 26, 2014 3:13pm
Quoting zxdtrader
i think what pipsEASY was doing is using small time frame (at some S/R based on his discretion), maybe 5m or 15m, trade momentum, meaning, every candle closed above the high of the previous up candle in a up trend (or below the low for a down trend). with momentum, the entry price is not easily re-visited immediately so that he could move the SL to break even ASAP, free trade. in his flying budda explanation, his buddy trader will put the SL above the high plus some buffer (20-30 pips or so?), my interpretation is, every candle, regardless its time...
Did anybody ever take this exercise 20x3 for 6 months? Did it make any difference in your trading in seeing charts and predicting price better?
  • #6,209
  • Mar 26, 2014 5:57pm Mar 26, 2014 5:57pm
Quoting zxdtrader
i think what pipsEASY was doing is using small time frame (at some S/R based on his discretion), maybe 5m or 15m, trade momentum, meaning, every candle closed above the high of the previous up candle in a up trend (or below the low for a down trend). with momentum, the entry price is not easily re-visited immediately so that he could move the SL to break even ASAP, free trade. in his flying budda explanation, his buddy trader will put the SL above the high plus some buffer (20-30 pips or so?), my interpretation is, every candle, regardless its time...
great post sir
tradewith60
  • #6,210
  • Mar 26, 2014 8:36pm Mar 26, 2014 8:36pm
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} I think Graeme suggested he would take an entry and if it didn't go his way quickly he would just close it out. He also suggested moving to break even fairly quickly. Im looking for the high of the day (or week) in a downtrend and vice versa in an uptrend, so I just place my stop the other side. here's a current example on sp500, its a h4 at the low of the week. {image}
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Staying in my lane...
  • #6,211
  • Mar 27, 2014 6:49am Mar 27, 2014 6:49am
Quoting pullice
{quote} Did anybody ever take this exercise 20x3 for 6 months? Did it make any difference in your trading in seeing charts and predicting price better?
6 months in front of the screen, everyday and all day, will do wonders for anybody's analytical/trading skills. Sadly not everyone has the time or money to be able to do this.

Always think of learning to trade as similar to being a good Doctor or Lawyer - it takes time, patience, hard work and experience (which is related to time) regardless of how clever you may be. For example, the brightest and best medical student in the world isn't going to be a top heart surgeon the day after he/she graduates from medical college. Perhaps within 3-5 years etc.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #6,212
  • Mar 27, 2014 7:49am Mar 27, 2014 7:49am
Quoting Calculus
{quote} 6 months in front of the screen, everyday and all day, will do wonders for anybody's analytical/trading skills. Sadly not everyone has the time or money to be able to do this. Always think of learning to trade as similar to being a good Doctor or Lawyer - it takes time, patience, hard work and experience (which is related to time) regardless of how clever you may be. For example, the brightest and best medical student in the world isn't going to be a top heart surgeon the day after he/she graduates from medical college. Perhaps within 3-5...
Calculus, sorry for my ignorance. This exercise is meant to perfect your entry skills. To my understanding no 2 trades are exactly the same, nor does the market have history and market is so random. Although you might have a perfect set up on a chart but the outcome would not be the same. Could you please elaborate more on this topic and once again I apologise for my ignorance.

Lets say for argument sake for perfection my entry skills would you suggest a 5 minute chart.
  • #6,213
  • Mar 27, 2014 8:11am Mar 27, 2014 8:11am
Of course no 2 patterns are the same, everything is always different although many trades can setup in similar ways.

G's 6 month advice was for entries but to find entries you're going to have to do some analysis so analysis/entires are the same IMHO. As for the 5m sure, if you're comfortable in that timeframe, I also like the 20m. But what's good for Mr A might not be so good for Mr B etc so the right timeframe for you is the one you prefer.

The point I was trying to make is that sitting in front of a computer all day watching/trading/simulating can only help a trader. No different from working in a car mechanics garage for 6 months if you know nothing about cars or know something but want to learn more. You're going to pick things up just by seeing/observing/doing etc.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #6,214
  • Mar 27, 2014 9:40am Mar 27, 2014 9:40am
Quoting pullice
{quote} Calculus, sorry for my ignorance. This exercise is meant to perfect your entry skills. To my understanding no 2 trades are exactly the same, nor does the market have history and market is so random. Although you might have a perfect set up on a chart but the outcome would not be the same. Could you please elaborate more on this topic and once again I apologise for my ignorance. Lets say for argument sake for perfection my entry skills would you suggest a 5 minute chart.
the only skill required for entry is location, you must enter where price has a good chance of surviving.

Buy new lows, sell new highs --- then wait.

All that technical analysis stuff is bull, you can't use past price to predict future price, that's just stupid.

There is a cost involved in finding good locations so your only job is to insure you make enough profit when you are right.
tradewith60
  • #6,215
  • Mar 27, 2014 9:47am Mar 27, 2014 9:47am
As ever, try to trade at the edges.

As for TA being crap, there's certainly some truth in that. If so, why not try to work out how the majority use TA, then use that information to your advantage. One way to do this is if TA gets them in, then it gets them out - that's your level, and guess what, chances are that level will also be an extreme...
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #6,216
  • Mar 27, 2014 10:10am Mar 27, 2014 10:10am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} the only skill required for entry is location, you must enter where price has a good chance of surviving. Buy new lows, sell new highs --- then wait. All that technical analysis stuff is bull, you can't use past price to predict future price, that's just stupid. There is a cost involved in finding good locations so your only job is to insure you make enough profit when you are right.
Yes a lot of TA is bull, but with all due respect- Many very pofitalbe trading stategies are based on just that- ( past price to predict future pice) James16, S & D trading, are just a couple- so I think saying that its just stupid is WAY out there. And some would say that magic H4 engulfing cadles is just stupid, but you tade it very well, I asume.....
Live today like theres no tomorrow-- Prioritize like you will die today
  • #6,217
  • Mar 27, 2014 10:25am Mar 27, 2014 10:25am
Quoting Calculus
As ever, try to trade at the edges. As for TA being crap, there's certainly some truth in that. If so, why not try to work out how the majority use TA, then use that information to your advantage. One way to do this is if TA gets them in, then it gets them out - that's your level, and guess what, chances are that level will also be an extreme...
great post calculus... Knowing where the losers are is key, the majority are usually wrong.
tradewith60
  • #6,218
  • Mar 27, 2014 10:29am Mar 27, 2014 10:29am
Quoting iamsovereign
{quote} Yes a lot of TA is bull, but with all due respect- Many very pofitalbe trading stategies are based on just that- ( past price to predict future pice) James16, S & D trading, are just a couple- so I think saying that its just stupid is WAY out there. And some would say that magic H4 engulfing cadles is just stupid, but you tade it very well, I asume.....
You mis-read there:

I said, using past price to predict future price is stupid, anyone with some basic math knowledge will know you can't use variable A to find Variable A.
tradewith60
  • #6,219
  • Mar 27, 2014 10:42am Mar 27, 2014 10:42am
Quoting 60minuteman
{quote} You mis-read there: I said, using past price to predict future price is stupid, anyone with some basic math knowledge will know you can't use variable A to find Variable A.

Who mis-read who?, Now anyone with basic reading skills, would be able to see, thats what I said....

ohhhh, now Mr 60 second man is ignoring me, my feelings are hurt, go have a tantrum... seems to be your style
Live today like theres no tomorrow-- Prioritize like you will die today
  • #6,220
  • Mar 27, 2014 10:49am Mar 27, 2014 10:49am
Hey, let's calm down everyone

Both 60m and IAS are right, just coming from different angles.

IAS - Yes, billions have been made over the years via TA, a lot has been lost as well. What's interesting is that many of the very successful system traders in the past are really struggling lately. Michael Platt a big hedge fund guy employs some Brazilian lady who's supposed to be one of the best system developers on the planet and her funds have been really lousy for a few years.

I suppose the right thing to say is yes TA works, but not for the majority. Therefore the best way is to probably work out how the majority use it and then use that information to your advantage.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
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