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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #2,601
  • Aug 20, 2012 8:35pm Aug 20, 2012 8:35pm
Quoting realjumper
I mentioned earlier on how I have the ATR indi on my M15 chart so I don't clutter my M5 chart, and Olivia explained how the ATR works. See the pic below.....today's expected ATR is 73 pips....and so far we have covered 71.6 pips.

So to go lower....or higher than todays extremes, I would need a pretty strong signal.

It's just one of things to bear in mind when trading

Believe it or not, there is a lot more information hidden inside the basic ATR indicator. In fact, I took the basic calculation for ATR (which is nothing more than an average of the candle's High-Low) and tweaked it through several versions until I came out with an indicator that outputs seven (7) different modes, or signals. So, from the ATR, you can extract at least seven (7) more characteristic, or behavioral outputs that tell you a bit more than just the High-Low average to be expected.

The ATR (my version is called something different) can be a really good Timing Indicator, which is something that most traders have yet to discover. Its value as a Timing Indicator is probably more than its value as a Magnitude Indicator. However, you have to observe it in the right chart time frame, in order to see its true value and worth as a tool for Timing the move of the market (not its direction). It is not a directional indicator by any means.

Gee - maybe I should spend some time on this subject just a bit somewhere on the forum.

Regards,
StealthTechnology
  • #2,602
  • Aug 20, 2012 8:44pm Aug 20, 2012 8:44pm
Quoting ohammond
Here's the perfect example of the retest I was talking about. I know this was through news but this is what to look for as the safest way to trade counter trend: Price looks to have bounced off the pivot and we have a signal counter trend, but it comes back down to retest it and then back up again, ...

This was a classic Harmonic Pattern set-up and even I can see it without measuring for it and without the advantage of a candle stick chart!

What you call the "Re-Test" was actually Point "C" in the BC leg of the pattern. Yes, they are some of the best counter-trend patterns in existence. So, that part you got right.


Quoting ohammond
I would take the second signal not the first.
Taking the "second signal" is what I call the CD Intercept. You were actually entering a classic Harmonic Ratio Pattern at Point "C" with a move to Point "D" - after that, if the patterns remains Harmonic, you will note that price will make a move back towards the "trend" but from a more elevated price level. Or, the CD leg could extend for as much as 168% of of the XA leg, which I did not identify earlier in this post.

Again, understanding why the market is behaving the way it is - will help you to project better entry, exit levels plus it will help you determine better hold decisions.

I feel a Harmonics 101 course coming on....lol!


Regards,
StealthTechnology
  • #2,603
  • Aug 20, 2012 8:50pm Aug 20, 2012 8:50pm
on END you will blow your account heispark.
  • #2,604
  • Aug 20, 2012 8:59pm Aug 20, 2012 8:59pm
Quoting magdelen
Alrighty, lining up for my next trade:
Looking for a sell on this one coming off resistance, will wait for a signal
You are really looking for the next DP leg in the Harmonic pattern. After that, you will note that for this pair the Genesis Matrix will enter a another 'period' of less than feel good moments given the whipping action that will take place relative to its signals. That's because the market does not always fit a Standard Harmonic Ratio Pattern.

Sometimes those ratios go beyond the simple Fibonacci tool that ships with the trading platform and you really have to dig into the Fibonacci Ratios to be able to calculate the next relevant set of ratios. This is the part about Fibonacci Ratios that they do not teach at most Trading Bootcamps.


And, yes - it is fun and it feels good when the market remains inside a Standard Harmonic Patter, because those patterns are more well known to most traders. However, it is the Non-Standard Harmonic Ratios and Cycles that most traders don't follow and don't seem to understand very well. Yet, those are the dominant frequencies within the range of all Fibonacci Ratios (Non-Standard Ratios).

Anyway, I'm going to keep reading (I'm trying to get caught-up in this thread) to find out how that DP leg turned out:

1) Did the market remain in a Standard Harmonic Pattern allowing the Short trade from Point "D" to Point "P" (the Projection point)?

2) Did the market turn Non-Standard and begin spewing less well known Harmonic Ratios to the upside, forcing the market into a brand new bullish trend?

Stay tuned!

Regards,
StealthTechnology
  • #2,605
  • Aug 20, 2012 9:06pm Aug 20, 2012 9:06pm
Quoting x58
on END you will blow your account heispark.
I don't trade either Genesis or QQE with my real account. Actually I trade only with one hour chart. THis is an experiment. Thank you for your advice anyway.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #2,606
  • Aug 20, 2012 9:12pm Aug 20, 2012 9:12pm
Quoting KennyForex
I am long from here will it work out??
Its a basic AB=CD Pattern. You should be fine. It is low risk when Point "B" is a an actual failed AB leg of a standard Harmonic - which is what you have right here. It would be a standard Harmonic, but Point "B" is higher than Point "X," which terminates the standard Harmonic and turns it into a basic AB=CD Pattern.

You guys really should learn the basic behind your entries.

In fact, I haven't looked forward in this thread, so I can't see what the outcome will be until I read that far.

Let's see how it turns out.

Regards,
StealthTechnology
  • #2,607
  • Aug 20, 2012 9:23pm Aug 20, 2012 9:23pm
Quoting StealthTech

I feel a Harmonics 101 course coming on....lol!
Not in this thread, thank you.

It's quite clear on Post #1, we are system traders here and we do NOT do predictions here, no matter how they are arrived at.

There are hundreds of other threads here at FF that specialise in predictions using harmonics, fibs, Elliot waves, moon cycles and a whole host of other methods. This thread does not do that, nor are we going to begin now.

You joined ForexFactory today, and already you are bombarding our thread with your posts. Go grab a chair, sit down in the back of the room and spend a few days catching up on the thread. That way you will not be making posts that are off topic here.

Thank you.

RJ
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #2,608
  • Aug 20, 2012 9:23pm Aug 20, 2012 9:23pm
Quoting realjumper
Possibly, but the trap is the we are never going to to know whether, for example, this is going to retest S1 or perhaps it is a genuine reversal.....

Yes - indeed you can know! Replace all your S's and all your R's with Fibonacci Confluence Zones (CZ's) and you will have a much tighter picture of what's coming around the corner with respect to a new Market Swing, or a Continuation.
  • #2,609
  • Aug 20, 2012 9:33pm Aug 20, 2012 9:33pm
Quoting realjumper
Not in this thread, thank you.

It's quite clear on Post #1, we are system traders here and we do NOT do predictions here, no matter how they are arrived at.
Actually, Genesis Matrix is by definition a Predictive Method. The reason it is technical a predictive method, is precisely because you are trading against the trend. By definition - that makes it predictive.


Quoting realjumper
There are hundreds of other threads here at FF that specialise in predictions using harmonics, fibs, Elliot waves, moon cycles and a whole host of other methods. This thread does not do that, nor are we going to begin now.
Sorry - I'm just calling a spade a spade. An Oscillator has no inherent forward predictive nature and that is what's being relied upon in the protocol for the Genesis Matrix entry. So, when I see what are clearly Standard and Non-Standard Harmonic Ratios (so vividly) and I know that they've been aground for ages, I simply call the spade as I see it.


Quoting realjumper
You joined ForexFactory today, and already you are bombarding out thread with your posts. Go grab a chair, sit down in the back of the room and spend a few days catching up on the thread. That way you will not be making posts that are off topic here.
Its foolish to ignore the obvious, but you can continue to do so if you wish. I'm new to this thread and FF, not trading. I've been a profitable trader for almost a decade and I've seen Oscillator based predictive entry methods before.

No need to get your feathers ruffled. Like I said, I simply called them like I saw them, that's all. I actually thought I was helping some of these poor souls who were jumping into a trade, obviously without having a fundamental understanding of why they were doing it, other than some signal told them to. But, I can see that such enlightenment is not appreciated in this thread, so no - I will not post here anymore.


Quoting realjumper
Thank you.
Since you were so polite - you are very welcome.
  • #2,610
  • Aug 20, 2012 10:34pm Aug 20, 2012 10:34pm
Yelena, please leave your posts, the reason people on FF are prepared to share their methods, is that we are not competition to each other. Even if thousands of us take a trade you post at the same time, it will not influence your profit at all.
Retail traders has no influence on a market that is estimated in Sep 2011 to be 7 trillion US per day.

Your trades are an inspiration to me and I am sure to many others that Currency Trading is not just an impossible dream.

Please, please!
Vandag is die dag.....
  • #2,611
  • Aug 20, 2012 10:42pm Aug 20, 2012 10:42pm
Quoting StealthTech
This was a classic Harmonic Pattern set-up and even I can see it without measuring for it and without the advantage of a candle stick chart!

What you call the "Re-Test" was actually Point "C" in the BC leg of the pattern. Yes, they are some of the best counter-trend patterns in existence. So, that part you got right.




Taking the "second signal" is what I call the CD Intercept. You were actually entering a classic Harmonic Ratio Pattern at Point "C" with a move to Point "D" - after that, if the patterns remains Harmonic, you will...
I couldn't care less about harmonic patterns, elliot waves, fib ratios or anything else remotely like them. That is how quite a few people I know have got into trouble with their trading, taking notice of things that change every 2 minutes to actually mean something else entirely. I'm glad that you know how to trade them properly, but really, if you do....you would not be on this thread.
  • #2,612
  • Edited 11:46pm Aug 20, 2012 10:52pm | Edited 11:46pm
Quoting heispark
I don't trade either Genesis or QQE with my real account. Actually I trade only with one hour chart. THis is an experiment. Thank you for your advice anyway.
Heispark, I want to show you something.
I hope you know rules of QQE using.
Sell - if signal lins crossed from up to down the main line and main line crossed or under level 50.
Now look below. There are CCI chart (20 as used in matrix) and QQE.
QQE has 3 parameters:

  1. rsi period - I placed 10
  2. WP - widering period - rsi*2-1
  3. and smoothing

Now, try to find real big difference
For sure, if you will use different inputs for QQE it will be different chart, but in this case why not to use different inputs for CCI?
But we are using "default" settings of Matrix because its prooved by Masters!

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ccivsqqe.gif Size: 34 KB
Everything is possible!!! Step by Step...
  • #2,613
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:03am Aug 21, 2012 12:03am
bad entry? Closed out for a loss
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ea.gif Size: 24 KB
Pursuit of happiness
  • #2,614
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:04am Aug 21, 2012 12:04am
Quoting DmitryFX
Heispark, I want to show you something.
I hope you know rules of QQE using.
Sell - if signal lins crossed from up to down the main line and main line crossed or under level 50.
Now look below. There are CCI chart (20 as used in matrix) and QQE.
QQE has 3 parameters:

  1. rsi period - I placed 10
  2. WP - widering period - rsi*2-1
  3. and smoothing

Now, try to find real big difference
For sure, if you will use different inputs for QQE it will be different chart, but in this case why not to use different inputs for CCI?
But...

Thank you Dmitry. Now I understand why you said CCI is the same as QQE.... Ok, I better stick to original 5-15 combination.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
  • #2,615
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:12am Aug 21, 2012 12:12am
Quoting DmitryFX
Heispark, I want to show you something.
I hope you know rules of QQE using.
Sell - if signal lins crossed from up to down the main line and main line crossed or under level 50.
Now look below. There are CCI chart (20 as used in matrix) and QQE.

QQE has 3 parameters:

  1. rsi period - I placed 10
  2. WP - widering period - rsi*2-1
  3. and smoothing

Now, try do find real big difference)
For sure, if you will use different inputs for QQE it will be different chart, but in this case why not to use different inputs for CCI?
But we are using...

Dmitry, you are not using the same version of QQE as Heispak.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...00#post5941800
I haven't looked at it properly yet but in certain markets entries provided by QQE (orange lines) can be similar to Genesis (green lines) but they generally come after Genesis although the difference in pips is very little.
On some occasions it can keep you in a trade for longer but on others it will whipsaw you too.
I'm not convinced yet that it can operate as an extra entry filter or as an extra confirmation, but someone needs to do some serious backtesting first on at least one instrument before we can say any more.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EA QQE.png Size: 41 KB
  • #2,616
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:18am Aug 21, 2012 12:18am
Quoting Poh
bad entry? Closed out for a loss
I don't trade that pair so I can't speak much about it other than to say that the trend has been down all day. The PA has bounced off S1 a couple of times and been unable to reverse the downward trend. For that reason I would not have entertained a long here, and I would not entertain a short until S1 gets broken.

There was a similar trade on EU, but the trend is UP, not Down on that pair.
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #2,617
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:30am Aug 21, 2012 12:30am
Quoting Poh
bad entry? Closed out for a loss
I think that this was one of those trades....the trend had been down but we were ranging within 20 pip for the last 5 hours so it could have gone either way; on longer TF we could be basing and maybe you were just 1 long signal too early...
  • #2,618
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:35am Aug 21, 2012 12:35am
Quoting olivierforex
Dmitry, you are not using the same version of QQE as Heispak.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...00#post5941800
You are right. My "QQE adv" has inputs to change RSI period. His QQE doesn't.
It's from the code of simple QQE:

int RSI_Period=14;
int Wilders_Period;

Quote
I haven't looked at it properly yet but in certain markets entries provided by QQE (orange lines) can be similar to Genesis (green lines) but they generally come after Genesis although the difference in pips is very little.
On some occasions it can keep you in a trade for longer but on others it will whipsaw you too.
I'm not convinced yet that it can operate as an extra entry filter or as an extra confirmation, but someone needs to do some serious backtesting first on at least one instrument before we can say any more.
Yes, shure! Better to make backtesting. Check the picture below. I indicated the same inputs for both QQE's and for both CCI's (usual and from Matrix):
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ccivsqqe_2.gif Size: 26 KB

Try to find big difference again
Everything is possible!!! Step by Step...
  • #2,619
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:37am Aug 21, 2012 12:37am
Morning EJ trade. Yuuupiii
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 21_ej.jpg Size: 115 KB
  • #2,620
  • Aug 21, 2012 12:40am Aug 21, 2012 12:40am
Quoting makron
Morning EJ trade. Yuuupiii
Unfortunately I missed this Bull run, oh well there is always another trade!
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