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Genesis Matrix Trading

  • #2,421
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:25am Aug 17, 2012 5:25am
Quoting realjumper
Huh???
that there was hilarious...
  • #2,422
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:26am Aug 17, 2012 5:26am
Quoting vnathwani
> In terms of the better trades to take, my initial observation has been that if I was taking trades, I would take shorts when price is above the Pivot point and longs when below. (Provided all the other conditions are met). i guess what i am saying is that I would filter which trades I take based on this. Any thoughts on this?
Hi,
Please have a look at Wiz's post on the subject: all is not what it seems...
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...iz#post5917188
Oli
  • #2,423
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:26am Aug 17, 2012 5:26am
Quoting Mini Trader
Hey,
Is this "PRINTED 15mn arrow" an indi?
Can you plz upload it?
Thanks.
Yes it is an indicator Sir..its uploaded somewhere in the thread..do a search for 'MTF Arrow'
  • #2,424
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:28am Aug 17, 2012 5:28am
Quoting Thoughts
Yes it is an indicator Sir..its uploaded somewhere in the thread..do a search for 'MTF Arrow'
Oh I see......I posted here about that....in short.....we are still testing it and will get back to you later
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #2,425
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:29am Aug 17, 2012 5:29am
Quoting Mini Trader
Hey,
Is this "PRINTED 15mn arrow" an indi?
Can you plz upload it?
Thanks.
i was referring to the MTFarrow indi that you can find here ...what i meant by printed is that since you are looking at a 15mn signal on a 5mn chart, the signal may flash on and off until 15mn candle closes, so you need to wait for 15mn candle to close and arrow to PRINT
  • #2,426
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:33am Aug 17, 2012 5:33am
Quoting realjumper
Oh I see......I posted here about that....in short.....we are still testing it and will get back to you later
You know youre a gem RJ, really do have to thank you personally
  • #2,427
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:34am Aug 17, 2012 5:34am
Quoting ohammond
I was just going to post the same thing and as someone has said they are not 100% correlated and one will always move more than the other, another thing is sometimes a news event can affect one and not the other, so its not the same thing at all. If you choose just one of them you can bet anything you like it will be the other one that moves most
That guy went long with EJ and EU one hour before Frankfurt open (on a friday) with no urgent news in front for hours (especially not for US and JPY). So this high correlation will stands and both pairs will run similiar at least until this afternnoon (Prelim UoM Consumer Sentiment) . So no need (for me) to trade both of those highly correlated pairs. This is business and I dont trade to get my broker rich.
  • #2,428
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:34am Aug 17, 2012 5:34am
Did anyone else just take this trade?
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  • #2,429
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:39am Aug 17, 2012 5:39am
Yes (5min) as an add-on to an earlier long. Price continuing to make HHs/HLs, but it's right around yesterday's high and i have RJ's H4 hidden divergence at the back of mind too ...nice and low SL though and for me, worth a punt.

edit: bailed out for -5.
  • #2,430
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:39am Aug 17, 2012 5:39am
Quoting antantnz
If he'd doubled the lot size then on most brokers that would also double the amount the broker gets ... So in that sense, no real difference in the brokers income between two trades on correlated pairs and one double lot size trade on one pair, except of course for any spread differences between pairs.
Thats why a broker is a broker, getting rich by collecting all those pennies from the small traders with their micro-accounts. Mostly blowing away their accounts by (intraday) overtrading.
  • #2,431
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:40am Aug 17, 2012 5:40am
If anyone wants to trade the M5 chart but want the added security of correlated M15 direction, then Bubola's explanation with chart is as good as it gets (in case you missed it)...
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...14#post5936414

On a different note Bubola, have you done any long-term analysis/backtest about the positions of the M5 & M15 Stox relative to each other? (if that is what you implied by "5MN STOCH DIPS AND CROSSES 15MN)
  • #2,432
  • Edited 6:01am Aug 17, 2012 5:47am | Edited 6:01am
Quoting sidefx
Yes (5min) as an add-on to an earlier long. Price continuing to make HHs/HLs, but it's right around yesterday's high and i have RJ's H4 hidden divergence at the back of mind too ...nice and low SL though and for me, worth a punt.

edit: bailed out for -5.
Im sitting -5 right now, may bail out soon.
closed -12 and entered a short.
  • #2,433
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:49am Aug 17, 2012 5:49am
Quoting joker24
That guy went long with EJ and EU one hour before Frankfurt open (on a friday) with no urgent news in front for hours (especially not for US and JPY). So this high correlation will stands and both pairs will run similiar at least until this afternnoon (Prelim UoM Consumer Sentiment) . So no need (for me) to trade both of those highly correlated pairs. This is business and I dont trade to get my broker rich.
That guy went long AFTER Frankfurt was opened...
Everything is possible!!! Step by Step...
  • #2,434
  • Edited 6:04am Aug 17, 2012 5:49am | Edited 6:04am
Quoting olivierforex
If anyone wants to trade the M5 chart but want the added security of correlated M15 direction, then Bubola's explanation with chart is as good as it gets (in case you missed it)...
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...14#post5936414

On a different note Bubola, have you done any long-term analysis/backtest about the positions of the M5 & M15 Stox relative to each other? (if that is what you implied by "5MN STOCH DIPS AND CROSSES 15MN)
no, not long-term analysis, oli, but watching closely to see if these crosses can add something to genesis...best signals SEEM to occur when crosses happen very close to OB/OS areas..please compare with EU long signal: same situation, waiting for a long after 15mn arrow and matrix rotation, but look where the cross happened, near OB area...coincidence?
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  • #2,435
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:50am Aug 17, 2012 5:50am
Quoting sidefx
Yes (5min) as an add-on to an earlier long. Price continuing to make HHs/HLs, but it's right around yesterday's high and i have RJ's H4 hidden divergence at the back of mind too ...nice and low SL though and for me, worth a punt.

edit: bailed out for -5.
If we get much above todays high, that divergence will be invalidated...
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #2,436
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:58am Aug 17, 2012 5:58am
Quoting joker24
Thats why a broker is a broker, getting rich by collecting all those pennies from the small traders with their micro-accounts. Mostly blowing away their accounts by (intraday) overtrading.
Look. There is many reason and examples from history when very correlated pairs have very different results during the day. One pair can reach target but another one no. At the same move! EU and EY are the most volatility pairs for now. Its corelation is very good confiramtion to go trade. There is no realy big difference to go with one trade by 2 lots or with two trades by 1 lot = its simple mathematics. The commision will be the same. But doing so I am doing some kind of hedging. If something will happend with one pair very probabbly I will be still able to get some profit with second one. Try to collect exampes from the history, its should be stay much more clear for you after it.
Everything is possible!!! Step by Step...
  • #2,437
  • Aug 17, 2012 5:58am Aug 17, 2012 5:58am
Quoting joker24
So no need (for me) to trade both of those highly correlated pairs. This is business and I dont trade to get my broker rich.
But if you had taken both trades, in this case, you would've made double the profit ... yes, your broker would have made double too, but you would've made the most gain from the situation. But again, whether you had double lots on one pair, or normal lots on two pairs, the cost is the same.

Quoting joker24
Thats why a broker is a broker, getting rich by collecting all those pennies from the small traders with their micro-accounts. Mostly blowing away their accounts by (intraday) overtrading.
I sense an anti-broker thing here ... at the end of the day, brokers need traders, traders need brokers ... simple.

If a trader doubles their lot size and makes double his/her profit, then who cares if the broker also benefits. That's simply the cost of doing business - in any business, there's a cost of doing business.
1 pip at a time ... if the entries are strong, the rest will follow ...
  • #2,438
  • Edited 6:44am Aug 17, 2012 6:00am | Edited 6:44am
Quoting Jandre
Did anyone else just take this trade?
I didn't take it for 2 reasons, 1 of them not strictly a core Genesis part so just take my answer for what it is:
.M15 stox had already started to come down from OB levels and was pointing down
.M15 stox was showing a bearish divergence: after the 2374 high, we made a new high in price at 2381 but at that point the Stox didn't make a new high (sorry I can't post a chart at the moment).

Genesis bit to consider if you went long there at 2371 but there were enough pips in between your entry and a cluster of potential Resistance above:
.R1 at 2399
.big round number 2400
.Weekly R1 at 2406
.80% (first line) ATR at 2409

So purely on Genesis, one could have entered Long as the M15 arrow was Long too (unless I missed something) but bear in mind those stox divergences (often they tell more of a story than purely the stox level itself).

Edit (using someone else's chart, sorry): see the bearish divergence (yellow lines) in the M15 Stox (white line) and also that the M15 Stox was already pointing down when the M5 Long signal appeared (blue line)
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  • #2,439
  • Aug 17, 2012 6:01am Aug 17, 2012 6:01am
Quoting realjumper
If we get much above todays high, that divergence will be invalidated...
I have traded 1h divs for years.... best treated as a heads up and pa to confirm but i don't need to tell you that rj.

this pic could be of interest to others though.

kind regards

Note the div at area's of s&r
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  • #2,440
  • Aug 17, 2012 6:02am Aug 17, 2012 6:02am
Quoting bubola
...best signals SEEM to occur when crosses happen very close to OB/OS areas
ie, the M5 stox crossed above the M15 stox not long after the M5 stox had been OS?
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