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  • #5,281
  • Aug 8, 2012 12:57pm Aug 8, 2012 12:57pm
Quoting Barbossa
Just a remark I'd like to make...
You did not understand me here. Say, you have a single position at +100 pips which you decide to close in a diversification. By closing it, you transfer it's value from equity to balance, right? Then, in a sense, you freeze the growth of that very position. You may think of it like it's still there, but frozen forever at +100 pips. That was what I was referring to by "can no longer grow or shrink", the value of a position, not the value of the equity.

Hope that clears the misunderstanding.

Best regards,
Barbossa...
No misunderstanding at all. As you said it yourself... this is true only when you have a 'single' trade/position. If you have multiple trades open, closing just one trade does not freeze your account balance 'forever' It appears that way but far from reality. Perhaps we are saying the same thing...peace
Staying in my lane...
  • #5,282
  • Aug 9, 2012 8:35am Aug 9, 2012 8:35am
Hi guys.

Just a random question about resetting your stop to BE. Not sure if it has been covered yet as I'm only up to page 64 so apologies if it's been done.

But say you've made a breakout trade and your entry is below the the range and you're off on a winner, much like my dollar-loonie short from .9956 last night. I closed half when I got home tonight and feeling good about it - promptly moved my stop to BE. Thing is that this means my stop is now on the south side of the .99613 S/R I drew prior to the trade. Puts it in danger of a bounce. To my reasoning, pretty much all breakout trades will have this feature as price should eventually come back to test the support that broke prior to entry.

Sure there's that consolidation above .9930 that developed over the course of today (these are all AUS times by the way) but to my reading, the .993 area isn't as significant as .9960.

Do more experienced traders take this into account? Do you say "well ok, I've taken 40 pips so I'll still risk losing 10 on the remaining half of my trade just to have another line of defense?" Or is it more important to protect the capital and remove the risk to zero? Especially considering this part of the move really started 100 pips further back?
  • #5,283
  • Aug 9, 2012 9:58am Aug 9, 2012 9:58am
Quoting TheMadMonk
Hi guys.

Just a random question about resetting your stop to BE. Not sure if it has been covered yet as I'm only up to page 64 so apologies if it's been done.

But say you've made a breakout trade and your entry is below the the range and you're off on a winner, much like my dollar-loonie short from .9956 last night. I closed half when I got home tonight and feeling good about it - promptly moved my stop to BE. Thing is that this means my stop is now on the south side of the .99613 S/R I drew prior to the trade. Puts it in danger of a bounce....
Graeme's main focus on this thread (as I'm sure you're seeing as you read through it) is to get a trade to break even and then let the market decide what will happen to it. No where did he indicate, or can I imagine him doing so, any effort on his part to monitor the trade from that point on. He would consider it a successful trade at BE.

Of course he wouldn't have closed half the position either reasoning that how would you feel 2 years from now if that position was worth 2000 pips instead of the 40 or so pips you closed out for.

Having said that, everyone has to find there own balance and make it mesh with they're trading style. I can imagine holding my stop above that 10 pip range for a layer of protection and then moving it down as soon as price action warranted.
  • #5,284
  • Aug 9, 2012 5:28pm Aug 9, 2012 5:28pm
Appreciated. And I hear what you are saying about not closing half.

Back here in the early pages though he mentions smoothing the equity curve by taking 2 positions and closing 1. Being used to intraday, I'm running with that with my chosen system until I can get used to holding for the higher timeframes and getting stopped out. Especially since I didn't get in at the top of this move.
  • #5,285
  • Aug 14, 2012 12:52am Aug 14, 2012 12:52am
Hi everyone. I am from Sydney Australia, my broker is with GFT but they use the first in first out rule.

This means when I set BE or any other protect stop it always cancel out my first trade which will normally be the earliest trade which I want to keep for long term.

Does anyone know how I should go around this or maybe suggest another broker in Australia?

Thx all!

Roy
  • #5,286
  • Aug 14, 2012 2:13am Aug 14, 2012 2:13am
hi Darkone -
you can try Esteem, they are based in Australia and don't have the FIFO rule as per GFT. I used to trade on GFT and converted to Esteem recently. No issues so far.
Kim
  • #5,287
  • Aug 14, 2012 8:46am Aug 14, 2012 8:46am
Quoting Darkone
Hi everyone. I am from Sydney Australia, my broker is with GFT but they use the first in first out rule.

This means when I set BE or any other protect stop it always cancel out my first trade which will normally be the earliest trade which I want to keep for long term.

Does anyone know how I should go around this or maybe suggest another broker in Australia?

Thx all!

Roy
Hi Roy -
I am a new member so not able to revert you via messaging. In reply to your query, spread for both Esteem and GFT are comparable.
Kim
  • #5,288
  • Aug 18, 2012 9:12am Aug 18, 2012 9:12am
Quoting Darkone
Hi everyone. I am from Sydney Australia, my broker is with GFT but they use the first in first out rule.

This means when I set BE or any other protect stop it always cancel out my first trade which will normally be the earliest trade which I want to keep for long term.

Does anyone know how I should go around this or maybe suggest another broker in Australia?

Thx all!

Roy
They work for me
  • #5,289
  • Aug 24, 2012 2:27am Aug 24, 2012 2:27am
Is Graeme ever coming back? Does anybody have his contact info? Thank you.
  • #5,290
  • Aug 24, 2012 7:41am Aug 24, 2012 7:41am
Quoting fxterrapin
Is Graeme ever coming back? Does anybody have his contact info? Thank you.
Hi fxterrapin,

To tell the truth I don`t think so. However his leaving was pretty unusual from the kind of person he is, according to the endless amount of posts he posted.
I would have expected some sort of "goodbye post" back then, although I wasn`t aware of this topic at that time. We can do nothing but to hope that he is fine.

Anyway in my opinion he left far more information what one needs to be successful with his/her trading. I would recommend reading only Graeme`s posts from the beginning like thousand times, which I do/did as well.
(I printed the .pdf, so I dont need to stare the computer for hours )

Zoltan
  • #5,291
  • Aug 24, 2012 8:57am Aug 24, 2012 8:57am
Quoting fxterrapin
Is Graeme ever coming back? Does anybody have his contact info? Thank you.
I always had small, lingering doubts about his story, his experience, the whole "Joe" thing (it was almost funny how “Marion” registered and dropped in for one post to validate the story), and his "I am a man of my word - I do everything I say I will do" promise of "the book". When "Joe" dropped by, my bullshit-o-meter redlined. THE BOOK is where?

Be honest, there are some glaring inconsistencies in his story. Have any of you read his posts on other threads prior to his starting this one? It is enlightening if you do so, and I highly recommend anyone who is setting up to spend their next few months of their valuable time on this to read his early postings first. You may have a change of heart. He is most certainly not the guy he paints himself to be, experience wise. He was scratching around a bit directionless, then spent a month early in 2010 on “Strats Stress Free Trading” and proclaimed himself the saviour. $7 million – um.. right.. As for his association with famous traders and business people all over the world…

I was very interested in the thread for a month or so, and was a bit of a fan of the concept, but for many reasons, I'm not surprised he's no longer here. This entire thread could form the basis of a very detailed dissertation on crowd/mass psychology.

I'm not saying the guy was a charlatan, as his time and effort were incredible. (Maybe just a lost soul looking for validation and “fame”). It's more that with so many still left scratching their heads as to just how to put this together to gather the "infinite rewards", I am personally wondering what it was all about. It's like "what was that?"

The fact that so few have made anything of his contribution here (it is still being discussed exactly how to make this work properly), maybe says something as well.

More recently, a few posters here have come VERY close to what I think is the main failing of this method. I will mention that it occurred to me very early on that if I spent months building, say, 36 staggered positions short on an extended move, and it reversed back to it's starting point, then I would lose a FORTUNE, not just BE as many think, because it would take a long time to build an equal and opposite 36 long positions. The unbalanced net position structure would slay you.

Yes, I know you will all say "DIVERSIFY! DIVERSIFY!!" like loyal acolytes, but seriously, you'd be better off just trading "normally" than going to all the trouble and risk, and it must be said that a majority of folks here still don't have a grasp of his "diversification". My "fraught with danger" radar is pinging away madly....

As stated by an interjector like me early in the thread, if I could do the 3 x 20 exercise with my eyes closed, I would not need to look anywhere else for my fortune. Seriously. And I'd be working a helluva lot less, sleeping better, not running 56 charts and massive spreadsheets, taking a HUGE risk with a broker and a floating profit etc etc..

I feel somewhat let down by Graeme, or whatever his name really is, as I reckon we've all been sent on a bum steer. I’m glad I realised it early on – some of you have spent years on this.
  • #5,292
  • Edited 11:04am Aug 24, 2012 10:49am | Edited 11:04am
[quote=ToeCutter;5957385]I always had small, lingering doubts about his story, his experience, the whole "Joe" thing (it was almost funny how “Marion” registered and dropped in for one post to validate the story), and his "I am a man of my word - I do everything I say I will do" promise of "the book". When "Joe" dropped by, my bullshit-o-meter redlined. THE BOOK is where?


---
Simple disagreement from here. This is just an other example of "one sees what he/she wishes to see".You do so, we do so. Of course if you "want" this thread and its owner to be a scam then you can find your reasons (?) for that, like you did with the book, Marion, sudden missing etc.
For example what if something happened to him? Hope not, but what if?
What if the very next day of his last post he had a very bad experience about something, and completely changed views? What if he had an accident? What if he had serious medical problems? What if... ? We can list thousand scenarios. He placed too much effort. I tried to keep this post as short as possible, but everybody could speak about this till the end of the year.
Not ironically, thanks for posting this opinion as well, because everybody can learn from "negative posts" if they think about it.

Edit: When "Joe" dropped by, my bullshit-o-meter redlined. --- I dont understand this one. Like if he has up-the-sky-high motivation to stay here until the end of time. Anyway people are never run out of questions, so Pipeasy trapped himself when he started it.
  • #5,293
  • Aug 24, 2012 12:26pm Aug 24, 2012 12:26pm
Quoting ToeCutter
I always had small, lingering doubts about his story, his experience, the whole "Joe" thing (it was almost funny how “Marion” registered and dropped in for one post to validate the story), and his "I am a man of my word - I do everything I say I will do" promise of "the book". When "Joe" dropped by, my bullshit-o-meter redlined. THE BOOK is where?
I respect your opinion and also have doubts about "Joe" and "Marion" being real people. However I don't think that is important and Graeme had his reasons for doing that. Who cares about the book if all the information you could ever need is within this thread?

Quote
I was very interested in the thread for a month or so, and was a bit of a fan of the concept, but for many reasons, I'm not surprised he's no longer here."
A month is far too little time for a method like this to really sink in as it focuses on the big picture and building positions along the monthly trend. You can't learn how to trade by reading this thread. You learn how to trade by trading and that takes time. Graeme states that you will never to witness roughly 50 volatile breakouts before you are ready so if you only followed the thread for a month I can safely assume you did not witness 50 live volatile breakouts because they don't happen every day or even every week.

I encourage you to give this method another try because following the monthly trend is what the real professionals/banks/hedge funds do and I believe that to be a fact. If you believe that day traders have a higher chance to be successful than position builders following the monthly trend then maybe you need to fail a few times like I did.

Quote
Yes, I know you will all say "DIVERSIFY! DIVERSIFY!!" like loyal acolytes, but seriously, you'd be better off just trading "normally" than going to all the trouble and risk.
What is trading normally? Day trading? Day traders and position builders alike need to minimize risk as much as possible so to me the only difference between day trading and position trading is that position builders hold their positions overnight while day traders do not because they can't handle the potential of a retracement the next day. Risk is the same, but the rewards are much different.
Twitter: @zusch_ -- Preselecting trending pairs, stocks on a weekly basis.
  • #5,294
  • Aug 25, 2012 3:13am Aug 25, 2012 3:13am
Very harsh and bitter criticism of Graeme here-- criticism more appropriately leveled at the thousands of genuine charlatans and con-men who prey on the retail forex trader for financial gain. Graeme put a huge amount of effort into creating a really interesting and thought-provoking thread far better than 99% of the other threads out there and I'll be damned if there are any hints he was trying to profit by selling mentoring services, training services or any of the other myriad services offered by the 'gurus' out there. Of course no thread is able to make a low-quality, unsuccessful trader into a good one--- but you can't blame Graeme for your own shortcomings!
Quoting ToeCutter
I always had small, lingering doubts about his story, his experience, the whole "Joe" thing (it was almost funny how “Marion” registered and dropped in for one post to validate the story), and his "I am a man of my word - I do everything I say I will do" promise of "the book". When "Joe" dropped by, my bullshit-o-meter redlined. THE BOOK is where?

Be honest, there are some glaring inconsistencies in his story. Have any of you read his posts on other threads prior to his starting this one? It is enlightening if you do so, and...
  • #5,295
  • Aug 25, 2012 5:47am Aug 25, 2012 5:47am
[quote=Mjolnir17;5957674]
Quoting ToeCutter
I always had small, lingering doubts about his story, his experience, the whole "Joe" thing (it was almost funny how “Marion” registered and dropped in for one post to validate the story), and his "I am a man of my word - I do everything I say I will do" promise of "the book". When "Joe" dropped by, my bullshit-o-meter redlined. THE BOOK is where?


---
Simple disagreement from here. This is just an other example of "one sees what he/she wishes to see".You do so, we do so. Of course if you "want"...
Then again, didn't Jacko place too much effort? Just saying...
  • #5,296
  • Aug 25, 2012 5:53am Aug 25, 2012 5:53am
Quoting gssintokyo
Very harsh and bitter criticism of Graeme here-- criticism more appropriately leveled at the thousands of genuine charlatans and con-men who prey on the retail forex trader for financial gain. Graeme put a huge amount of effort into creating a really interesting and thought-provoking thread far better than 99% of the other threads out there and I'll be damned if there are any hints he was trying to profit by selling mentoring services, training services or any of the other myriad services offered by the 'gurus' out there. Of course no thread is...
True, but it doesn't mean he or his method aren't to be questioned ever. What I find more disconcerting than any questions regarding Graeme's method is the immediate "white knighting" response that one sees when guru's come under even a slight amount of scrutiny.

There are plenty of questions left unanswered re: this method. Firstly, I mentioned a while back (in 2010) that this method was really better suited for single stocks due to the ranging nature of long term fx. (look at E/U in 2005)

He also mention that only about 5% of his long-term legs survive. If you crunch the numbers you would have been better off simply being selective and lettering our trades run to 1:10 r/r or so... not 5% @ 1:100. Too much tracking, too many 'legs' for too little reward.
  • #5,297
  • Aug 25, 2012 6:30am Aug 25, 2012 6:30am
Quoting fxterrapin
True, but it doesn't mean he or his method aren't to be questioned ever. What I find more disconcerting than any questions regarding Graeme's method is the immediate "white knighting" response that one sees when guru's come under even a slight amount of scrutiny.

There are plenty of questions left unanswered re: this method. Firstly, I mentioned a while back (in 2010) that this method was really better suited for single stocks due to the ranging nature of long term fx. (look at E/U in 2005)

He also mention that only about 5% of his long-term...
Problem is, aiming for a fixed R:R has a very interesting property... Being a programmer and somewhat familiar with statistics, I've done a lot of backtesting over many methods. Turns out that aiming for 1:1 R:R usually has about 50% win rate. Aiming for 2x the risk usually works out 1 out of 3 attempts. Aiming for 3x the risk - 1 out of 4. Notice the pattern?
  • #5,298
  • Aug 25, 2012 6:43am Aug 25, 2012 6:43am
Quoting gssintokyo
Very harsh and bitter criticism of Graeme here-- criticism more appropriately leveled at the thousands of genuine charlatans and con-men who prey on the retail forex trader for financial gain. Graeme put a huge amount of effort into creating a really interesting and thought-provoking thread far better than 99% of the other threads out there and I'll be damned if there are any hints he was trying to profit by selling mentoring services, training services or any of the other myriad services offered by the 'gurus' out there. Of course no thread is...
Hey hey, settle down tiger!

I at no point even hinted that I thought the thread starter was doing anything for money. I never suggested a scam for profit, and it never crossed my mind.

Your success with this method is to be admired. Good luck to you, sincerely. I'd suggest that you are in the minority in this regard. Looking at the plethora of early adopters dwindle month over month to where we are today with five or so diehards speaks volumes.

Your comments on my own abilities is juvenile and nonsensical.. If you'd actually thought about it first, instead of penning a pithy catchphrase, you would have realised that as I clearly don't use this technique, it would be quite odd for me to blame the thread starter for anything at all.
  • #5,299
  • Aug 25, 2012 7:01am Aug 25, 2012 7:01am
Quoting zusch
I respect your opinion and also have doubts about "Joe" and "Marion" being real people. However I don't think that is important and Graeme had his reasons for doing that. Who cares about the book if all the information you could ever need is within this thread?
You can imagine how much I need to see this book . My point was more like “so where is it?”. The thread starter was quite strong in his assertion that it would be produced, and mentioned his manly honour and so forth... Anyway, a small matter.


Quoting zusch
A month is far too little time for a method like this to really sink in as it focuses on the big picture and building positions along the monthly trend. You can't learn how to trade by reading this thread. You learn how to trade by trading and that takes time. Graeme states that you will never to witness roughly 50 volatile breakouts before you are ready so if you only followed the thread for a month I can safely assume you did not witness 50 live volatile breakouts because they don't happen every day or even every week.
I came to this quite a bit after it had started, so there was a volume of posts that could be read in a condensed time. I probably spent 60-70 hours reading and analysing it. I actually thought about it a lot, and made many notes and so forth.

Quoting zusch
I encourage you to give this method another try because following the monthly trend is what the real professionals/banks/hedge funds do and I believe that to be a fact. If you believe that day traders have a higher chance to be successful than position builders following the monthly trend then maybe you need to fail a few times like I did.
I’m sorry. “Turning” me into a believer might make you feel a bit better about it all, but that ain’t likely. Each to their own – I truly wish you the best with it.

Quoting zusch
What is trading normally? Day trading? Day traders and position builders alike need to minimize risk as much as possible so to me the only difference between day trading and position trading is that position builders hold their positions overnight while day traders do not because they can't handle the potential of a retracement the next day. Risk is the same, but the rewards are much different.
You are right, of course. Defining what is “normal” in this line of business is not possible, and I should not have phrased it that way. I would suggest that I meant “normal” as being any methodology that does not try to manage open positions for ever.
  • #5,300
  • Aug 25, 2012 8:32am Aug 25, 2012 8:32am
Quoting ToeCutter
I came to this quite a bit after it had started, so there was a volume of posts that could be read in a condensed time. I probably spent 60-70 hours reading and analysing it. I actually thought about it a lot, and made many notes and so forth.
No offense, but that is not enough effort. You need to witness it LIVE, not read about it in this thread in order for it to really sink in.

Quote
I’m sorry. “Turning” me into a believer might make you feel a bit better about it all, but that ain’t likely. Each to their own – I truly wish you the best with it.
Yeah I'm just trying to help. I'm not trying to turn you into anything. Best of luck with your trading.
Twitter: @zusch_ -- Preselecting trending pairs, stocks on a weekly basis.
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