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Sonic R. System

  • #38,221
  • Aug 1, 2012 7:35am Aug 1, 2012 7:35am
Quoting emmanuel7788
well don't work when trading spot forex.

Now into SELL.

Kind of getting hang doing this.
Excellent trading today Emmanuel. You took A/U long with tight stop and reasonable targets, just as you should. And managed it well.

The more you trade the less you will take dragon into consideration. I know, I know... dragon is part of the system, but Price Action trumps all indicators. So you took the more risky approach and shorted @ resistance when price made Lower Low. It was important for price to be at resistance for you to take this higher risk trade. It could go very well for you, so I guess I would not blame myself for taking it.
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #38,222
  • Edited 8:15am Aug 1, 2012 7:38am | Edited 8:15am
Quoting alexbs
Eu long

ep : 1.2316

sl : 1.2300

tp : 1.2347

Edit :

Cut Loss my Long -5, I look my short setup.. now I'm short..

EP : 1.1311

SL : 1.2323

TP : 1.2290

Also short AU..

EP : 1.0528

SL : 1.0544

TP : 1.0504
EU short TP hit, +20 and cut loss -5 from first long trade,

At first i took Long trade then after i realize my mistake on chart reading, I change my trade direction.. ^^ +15 for today, still waiting for AU that i was lower my SL to BE.. Miss my enter on GU short that time, just took EU and AU trade..

Not bad for testing for sonic scalp setup ^^

edit :

Too bad AU got at BE..
  • #38,223
  • Aug 1, 2012 7:42am Aug 1, 2012 7:42am
Valid SonicR ?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: sonic_valid_.gif Size: 52 KB
  • #38,224
  • Aug 1, 2012 9:43am Aug 1, 2012 9:43am
Quoting Domas4
What were those mistakes?
Mostly improper SL position, which is sort of a money-managment issue.

Got to learn to exit a bad trade earlier.
  • #38,225
  • Aug 1, 2012 11:15am Aug 1, 2012 11:15am
Quoting FrenchTrad
Valid SonicR ?
U'r a good trader, your chart always had a good position.. But thats not sonic, when pa create
a H, L, LH and when pa break L u enter the trade..that's sonic setup

The wave that creating from H to L must break the dragon..

But now, a lot of people entry before price break the low for short setup.

Trade u'r own system as long as its suits you... If u'r not comfortable with sonic, it's not wise to force this system for u..
  • #38,226
  • Aug 1, 2012 1:31pm Aug 1, 2012 1:31pm
Quoting traderathome
GU: Entered short per attached.
GU: TP2 reached and trade closed for 101 pips gained EP1 to TP2.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: aug 2012 - 002.gif Size: 32 KB
  • #38,227
  • Aug 1, 2012 1:49pm Aug 1, 2012 1:49pm
Quoting traderathome
AU: A possible "bias changing" PA waveform is developing. Three TPs are illustrated, all within a 100+ pips possible swing down. An EP that is higher than the black horizontal might be considered. This is just a "heads up" illustration.
Quoting traderathome
AU: Entered short per attached.
AU: TP1 reached and trade closed for 51 pips gain EP1 to TP1. Moved SL a bit higher yesterday before the higher volatility crept in. This could go lower. However, it is late in the day, so I'm taking profits now and will wait to see if there might be a pullback tomorrow for higher re-entry.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: aug 2012 - 003.gif Size: 32 KB
  • #38,228
  • Aug 1, 2012 3:03pm Aug 1, 2012 3:03pm
Here's an example of how my week has gone.

PA just barely touched the SL and then the very next candle the PA fell 50 pips.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 8-1-2012 4-00-43 PM.png Size: 23 KB
  • #38,229
  • Edited 9:20pm Aug 1, 2012 5:35pm | Edited 9:20pm
Quoting ArtfulDodger
Here's an example of how my week has gone. PA just barely touched the SL and then the very next candle the PA fell 50 pips.
First off, I'm not suggesting to not use a SL (though I have often traded in the past without one, and even now they are rarely hard SLs). I am suggesting that as much as the early LS can involve whipsawing, the king of whipsawers hides out in the US session. In any case, when you full well should suspect there will be sudden position building drives, or whipsaws, then you either should not be in a trade, or you should give your trade breathing room so it is less likely to be stopped out and you can stay in and enjoy those really good runs.

Unfortunately, there is no ideal, or secret formula for setting a SL under such conditions. Either you believe in the trade and are willing to take the risk of a wide SL (or no SL), or don't be in a trade at all and simply wait until the after the likelyhood of whipsawing is over and done with.

Remember, any hard SL is seen by your enemy, either the broker or the market moving Big Wigs. So, if your SL is tight, and if a bunch of other traders have done the same, then forget it. You all will be wiped out. As much as you think a SL is for your protection, as far as the market moving Big Wigs are concerned, they are welcomed stepping stones along the path of their sudden drives to build positions ahead of a nice run in the opposite direction. And I flatly challange anyone to deny with substantiation the truth of that!

A SL is a big white sign with a big red bulls-eye and lettering that states, "Here I am! Come get me!" And the market moving Big Wigs will, they absolutely will, if your SL and a bunch of others is economically reached by them. The further out you make it, the less economical it is for them, and the less likely there will be others in the area to make the drive to it worth while for them. Of course, if your SL is mental, it won't even be included with others in the same area. It won't add incentive for the market moving Big Wigs to take a position building drive to that area. A SL should be something that helps you avoid undue losses, not something that helps the market moving Big Wigs make you lose. Think about it.

There are those that say we should not be so conceited as to believe our measly little trades with their SLs are of any importance to the "market", that the "market" does not hunt them. On an individual basis, true. But, on the aggregate basis, FALSE, FALSE, FALSE!!! An individual trader's SL is not targeted. But the aggregate of tens of thousands of individual trader SLs are. They constitute the rungs of a ladder that help the market moving Big Wigs step prices up or down.

Master Sonicdeejay knows how this all works. When recently asked what a "tight" SL was for trading EU, his reply was "80 pips." Nobody wants to lose money. And a wide SL, if hit, can cause you to lose money. But a tight SL is far more likely to be hit, and almost guarantees you will lose money. Be real picky about the setups you trade. That should help a lot. Use a SL, but make it wide enough to accomodate the market's attempts to stop traders out before good runs. And remember that any hard SL is a rung in the ladder the market uses to drive prices for it's own position building, stopping out traders as it does so.

-traderathome
  • #38,230
  • Aug 1, 2012 10:01pm Aug 1, 2012 10:01pm
Quoting ArtfulDodger
Here's an example of how my week has gone.

PA just barely touched the SL and then the very next candle the PA fell 50 pips.

same with me artfuldoger, that candle before fell hit my SL too, but in my case, i stoped at BE ^^..

If u target a big movement, you should put your SL on H, not LH...

Edit : my SL touched at your LH ^^..
  • #38,231
  • Aug 1, 2012 10:05pm Aug 1, 2012 10:05pm
EJ: Entered long per picture.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: aug 2012 - 004.gif Size: 30 KB
  • #38,232
  • Aug 1, 2012 10:53pm Aug 1, 2012 10:53pm
Quoting traderathome
First off, I'm not suggesting to not use a SL (though I have often traded in the past without one, and even now they are rarely hard SLs). I am suggesting that as much as the early LS can involve whipsawing, the king of whipsawers hides out in the US session. In any case, when you full well should suspect there will be sudden position building drives, or whipsaws, then you either should not be in a trade, or you should give your trade breathing room so it is less likely to be stopped out and you can stay in and enjoy those really good runs.

Unfortunately,...
A good article TAH.. Put SL and TP always a hard thing to do...

Remember to cut the loss and let the profit run?

for me if u not use SL and use TP, its like cut the profit and let the loss run..

So, i'm always use hard SL and TP...

But yap, its depend on the trader style.. Yap i look closely TAH's trade lately, TAH get a lot of small loss coz of hard SL, before that TAH's trade was almost always on profit without SL.. So I wont says that TAH system about SL is bad, but its just don't work on me. It was very frustating for me looking at floating trade had a huge loss..
  • #38,233
  • Aug 2, 2012 1:37am Aug 2, 2012 1:37am
Hi,

Read this before you start trading to today.

Better still, pin this in front of your trading PC as constant reminder.

Trade Well!
Attached File(s)
File Type: pdf Doug Zalessky 25 points Mantra.pdf   122 KB | 620 downloads
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #38,234
  • Aug 2, 2012 1:56am Aug 2, 2012 1:56am
Quoting ArtfulDodger
Here's an example of how my week has gone.

PA just barely touched the SL and then the very next candle the PA fell 50 pips.

Quoting alexbs
same with me artfuldoger, that candle before fell hit my SL too, but in my case, i stoped at BE ^^..

If u target a big movement, you should put your SL on H, not LH...

Edit : my SL touched at your LH ^^..
Guys. Did it occur to you that the price has not broken LH... thus your SL should not have been hit? Your SL was placed wrong then. Price can touch LH, but only if it breaks it - then your SL should trigger. Of course if your broker has variable spreads, then it's harder to determine how many pips above LH SL should be placed. Otherwise - it's just a rookie mistake.

Quoting traderathome
[...]
TAH I have no words. You have been saying the same wrong thing for as long as this thread has been here. Why would Big Wigs need to hit your stops? Most brokers' do not even transfer their clients' trades to market so only broker can see them and broker does not move the market, banks and corporations do. They do not care about us, they do not hunt for our little stops and there is no benefit in doing that. Price always moves where there is least resistance; it's basic supply and demand laws. If price needed to spike one more time higher, let it be. It probably needed to test that level. Let your SL get hit and look for re-entry. You cannot know if it is going to be a spike or 500 pip move. It can seem that market is hunting for your stops, because all you focus on is getting a loss. If you ask any, any, any! disciplined successful trader ALL of them use hard stops and they do not move it unless it's to tighten it! So if you move your stoploss anywhere, but to make it tighter - you lost to the market. This friggin Big Boy conspiracy of yours give you reasons to move your stop loss or not to have it at all when market moves against you.

Here is an excerpt of Larry Williams:
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: sas.jpg Size: 131 KB
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #38,235
  • Aug 2, 2012 2:32am Aug 2, 2012 2:32am
Quoting traderathome
First off, I'm not suggesting to not use a SL (though I have often traded in the past without one, and even now they are rarely hard SLs). I am suggesting that as much as the early LS can involve whipsawing, the king of whipsawers hides out in the US session. In any case, when you full well should suspect there will be sudden position building drives, or whipsaws, then you either should not be in a trade, or you should give your trade breathing room so it is less likely to be stopped out and you can stay in and enjoy those really good runs.

Unfortunately,...
Very interesting post TAH, and that's a subject that will be around forever. Do the brokers really target stops? I have no idea, but I can imagine that, due to the powers of computers, they CAN. And it's been my experience that when it comes to money and greed, if somebody CAN do something, there's a good chance they WILL!

My downfall in this particular trade was the variable spread of my broker I think. And also, I thought I was placing the stop according to the latest pdf about the "SonicR Mindset." Before reading it, I was always placing my stops at least above the initial H, not above the LH as I did on this trade. Had I done that this time, I would have been just fine (unless the broker had my SL in their sights).

Another "rookie" mistake I made was forgetting about the difference between the Ask and the Bid. I guess that's a result of only seeing the Bid line on the chart(s). The Bid price never got to my SL setting level, but the Ask price sure as heck did - and ZAPPPPPP! When you look at the chart I posted you get the illusion that the SL was hit without the price ever having reached it.

One thing I have learned for sure. LEARNING CERTAINLY IS PAINFUL AT TIMES!

  • #38,236
  • Aug 2, 2012 2:38am Aug 2, 2012 2:38am
EU: Entered long per attached.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: aug 2012 - 005.gif Size: 33 KB
  • #38,237
  • Aug 2, 2012 2:39am Aug 2, 2012 2:39am
There is only one market and brokers cannot manipulate market to target your stops. If one broker shows different price action than what the market did - change the broker.
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #38,238
  • Aug 2, 2012 2:42am Aug 2, 2012 2:42am
Quoting Domas4
Excellent trading today Emmanuel. You took A/U long with tight stop and reasonable targets, just as you should. And managed it well.

The more you trade the less you will take dragon into consideration. I know, I know... dragon is part of the system, but Price Action trumps all indicators. So you took the more risky approach and shorted @ resistance when price made Lower Low. It was important for price to be at resistance for you to take this higher risk trade. It could go very well for you, so I guess I would not blame myself for taking it.
Hi Domas,

Thank you for your encouragement and your online coaching in this thread. I am sure many FF members following this thread appreciate this and also will benefit from all your postings.
I have been working on to wean myself away from using indicators for almost 2 years and so far has been good. Right now down to only MAs and one momentum oscillator.

I know that I will need more practice and get away from the MA/dragon thing and put more weight on wave patterns setups. The waves structure actually will give more trading opportunities and also support trade management.

Yesterday AU trade turned out well and I did not have to do much in trade management as I use an EA to manage most of my trades. Total gain in pips was 114 pips (20pips from earlier Buy trade, and 26+68 pips from the Sell trade). Good start for August.

Thank you and Kind Regards,
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: AU 1 Aug trade closed 2-8-2012 6-44-59 AM.png Size: 61 KB
Honesty is a very expensive gift. You wont find it in cheap people.WBuffett
  • #38,239
  • Aug 2, 2012 2:43am Aug 2, 2012 2:43am
Quoting traderathome
EU: Entered long per attached.
Very "thoughtfully" placed SL.
cut losses short, let profits run.
  • #38,240
  • Aug 2, 2012 2:48am Aug 2, 2012 2:48am
Quoting ArtfulDodger
Very interesting post TAH, and that's a subject that will be around forever. Do the brokers really target stops? I have no idea, but I can imagine that, due to the powers of computers, they CAN. And it's been my experience that when it comes to money and greed, if somebody CAN do something, there's a good chance they WILL!

My downfall in this particular trade was the variable spread of my broker I think. And also, I thought I was placing the stop according to the latest pdf about the "SonicR Mindset." Before reading it, I was always placing my...
the broker won't target your SL, if u think that way you can compare PA on other broker..
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