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Symphonie Trader System

  • #3,081
  • Nov 27, 2011 11:13am Nov 27, 2011 11:13am
bman204,
I've had a look at my chart and there appears to be a bear signal on the Extreme Indicator on the next candle from where you entered - so basically you should have exited there.
Strange, because I can't see the signal on your chart - maybe because you hadn't refreshed your chart then?
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #3,082
  • Nov 27, 2011 11:46am Nov 27, 2011 11:46am
Quoting itsallover
bman204,
I've had a look at my chart and there appears to be a bear signal on the Extreme Indicator on the next candle from where you entered - so basically you should have exited there.
Strange, because I can't see the signal on your chart - maybe because you hadn't refreshed your chart then?
What do you mean by bear signal on the Extreme Indicator? Which indicator?
  • #3,083
  • Edited 12:29pm Nov 27, 2011 12:08pm | Edited 12:29pm
Quoting bman204
Hi, here's a recent attempt at a signal I received.
hi, thanks for the chart. i for myself don't let the system tell me the direction, i know the direction i want to trade in advance (overall price action, usd sentiment, recent SR, highs/lows... generally recent past - of course i can be wrong) and wait for the signal in that direction only - unless i'm scalping - but in that case, i don't wait for the trendline. i'm playing pattern breakouts instead (m1/m5; will try m3 this week - seems great in hindsight).

trade management is crucial with this method but i can't tell mechanical (pip) data.. it's like 'IF price rejected here AND consolidating there, THEN exit' etc and every situation is qualitatively similar yet quantitatively different .. sorry i'm not good at explaining this.. some thoughts on chart.

ps: in higher TF it was a bear flag.. holding the trade past the S turned R test was against probability.. just my 2¢
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: chart_extreme1.png Size: 193 KB
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  • #3,084
  • Nov 27, 2011 12:31pm Nov 27, 2011 12:31pm
Hi am posting my chart spikes on the Bman204 chart is not like mine ....

whether he tweaked the extreme indicator or am i missing some thing
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 1.gif Size: 18 KB
  • #3,085
  • Nov 27, 2011 12:55pm Nov 27, 2011 12:55pm
Quoting bman204
I looked at nonlag MA like you MJ are testing with. I'm using a 40 length and 0.5 PCT, it seems to eliminate some whipsaws like this one shown above. And I want to be clear, in no way am I putting down this system, it seems to be working very well for most of you. It's just that I have yet to master it and I am looking for anything that will help me do that. Thanks.
i have to agree on the comments of itsallover. but without looking at any other TF nor analysis and fundies, just this system, you could have executed better trades.

on the very first post, eval said, the 3rd way to exit is a change in trend color (absolute must for me). on nov 24 approx 13:50, the trendline turned blue. that was your queue to exit win or lose, that would have been a great stoploss event.

on the same picture, left most of your chart, you have a colored spike for short. at around 18:15 (?) the senti, emo, and trendline were all red. that should have been a wonderful re-entry at est 1.3337.

then a dot appeared - so once, there was a spike there, right before your "stopped out" price of 1.3314. that should have been your exit.

therefore, supposedly, you should have lost some 8 pips on the stop loss then gained 23 on the re-entry; which should have given you a total of +15. try to treat this system as mechanical as you can. once you see the signals, take it as it is.

better? yeah, this system needs baby sitting. that's why we are all anticipating for MJ's EA.... hehehehe... i'm a willing ginuea pig for this one!
  • #3,086
  • Nov 27, 2011 1:20pm Nov 27, 2011 1:20pm
Thanks all for the replies. I have just noticed something significant. My extreme signals on Oanda appear at different times then some of the other brokers I have looked at in demo, I do not understand why because it is the same indicators through out. Here's an example.

Oanda

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/r...t_extreme2.png

FX Clearing

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/r...t_extreme3.png

FX Clearing shows an extreme bottom and top, where Oanda only shows the 1 extreme top before the extreme bottom. It might be because of this that I am losing out on profits. But why is it different? Does it change when it is a live account? The issue eludes me.
  • #3,087
  • Nov 27, 2011 1:21pm Nov 27, 2011 1:21pm
Quoting vijayanscbe
Hi am posting my chart spikes on the Bman204 chart is not like mine ....

whether he tweaked the extreme indicator or am i missing some thing
it was a valid entry and he didn't tweak it nor changed the indicator. take a look at your chart, the spike after the dot wasn't a new low. it was just a spike and not a colored spike. so, there's no repaint there.

i attached my chart. even the "goldsupercycle" i'm using plus the colored SEMA, both just recorded that very same low with a colored spike and the next repaint of a colored spike only occurred Nov 25 02:05.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: bman.jpg Size: 155 KB
  • #3,088
  • Nov 27, 2011 1:30pm Nov 27, 2011 1:30pm
Quoting bman204
Thanks all for the replies. I have just noticed something significant. My extreme signals on Oanda appear at different times then some of the other brokers I have looked at in demo, I do not understand why because it is the same indicators through out. Here's an example.
ah, yes. broker thing. they discussed that on the first 10 pages of this thread. hotforex and pepperstone seem to provide a rather consistent view all throughout. try hitting the refresh button prior to placing your order. other than that, can't give you a fix but to change your broker - at least the demo acct, for you to have a similar "indicator-experience."
  • #3,089
  • Nov 27, 2011 1:41pm Nov 27, 2011 1:41pm
Quoting yelena
ah, yes. broker thing. they discussed that on the first 10 pages of this thread. hotforex and pepperstone seem to provide a rather consistent view all throughout. try hitting the refresh button prior to placing your order. other than that, can't give you a fix but to change your broker - at least the demo acct, for you to have a similar "indicator-experience."
Yeah, must be a +2 GMT thing because FX Clearing is +2GMT as well as Pepperstone and Hotforex. Well, I'll just use the demo for looking at entries and exits and my actual strategy tester live account on Oanda for filling them. That way I won't miss important signals anymore.
  • #3,090
  • Nov 27, 2011 1:47pm Nov 27, 2011 1:47pm
Quoting MaryJane
Many posters are wondering they see a totally different plot and think it's difference in brokers. It's not.

The real problem with the cycle identifier is that it iterates across the whole chart history. The final readout (after refresh) depends on how many bars are actually in your chart. Two traders can use the same broker, same settings, yet their plot will almost certainly (and significantly) be different if their bar count differs.
And please believe me, it has nothing to do with time or the usual slight differences in broker feeds.. it's the concept in itself. As long as the alpha (and sometimes omega) of any trade is an extreme spike, trades will always be incoherent between different traders, unless someone recodes the indicator from scratch to give the same results to everyone.
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  • #3,091
  • Nov 27, 2011 2:44pm Nov 27, 2011 2:44pm
Quoting bman204
I can't seem to get positive results with this system. I keep seeing success all over the thread following Eval's specific rules but I cannot replicate this success live. I have tested this for a month now with a small live account I can spare for testing purposes, but still no positive results. Please inform me as to what I am doing wrong, I will describe my entries/exits below.
I enter buys on the 5M chart when the extreme cycle signal shows a bottom (dark blue) and when the sentiment and emotion both turn blue, I enter at the close of the candle...

bman204,

A few suggestions..

First, if you are trading in 5 min then you should expect alot of whipsaws in the market over the past 3 weeks. Because of the ever growing crisis in the world markets this has caused much whipsaw market action. I find that trading the higher timeframes to be more profitable. You may not trade as often but the pip profits are definitely better for me. Currently, I trade the 15 min but trade as you feel most comfortable. It also may lower your frustration levels....I know it helped mine.

Second, it is best to trade with the trends of the market and not against it. Look to the larger timeframes for confirmation of your entry points before placing an order. If you have a Symphonie Signal in the 5 min. then I would suggest looking to the 15 min for confirmation that the signal has enough power behind it to take you to profit. Look to the sentiment and emotion indikators to be in the same direction as your 5 min signal and you should find better results.

Lastly, see my post #2543 on trend identification. I have also attached an excellent indikator that makes a good add on to help to keep you trading with the trend and not against it. Trading with the trend will improve your pips....

Finally, I have posted many tips and tricks to help you better use the Symphonie Trader System. I hope you will read them as I think they will help you to trade successfully through the difficult market times and stay out of the bad trades.

Good Luck,

Evaluator.
  • #3,092
  • Nov 27, 2011 2:49pm Nov 27, 2011 2:49pm
Quoting MaryJane
btw sad news for anyone awaiting the ea, it will take more time than i initially thought and i apologize for early promises i can't fulfill on time - shame on me. Eval was 100% right, i ran basic tests and it doesn't make sense, whipsaws take it down. Even the most conservative component - the trendline bashed by many for its slowness - allows for many whips. I'm sure it will be doable with a totally different 'philosophy' - the EA can't work in the usual "signalA+signalB+....signalX = buy/sell/close" mode, it needs a more different decision...
MaryJane,

Sorry to hear but I knew you would have trouble adapting the Symphonie System to EA form. Adapting a manually (human) desgined trading system to an EA is a very difficult task even though the rules and outlines may seem straight forward. If you are interested, contact me and we can discuss offline for ways to adapt Symphonie into and EA form. I have some ideas that may assist you.

Eval.
  • #3,093
  • Nov 27, 2011 2:53pm Nov 27, 2011 2:53pm
Quoting bman204
@We_R_12 - Like I stated, I traded a months time with a live account I could afford to crash. Used proper lot sizes for account - example 0.03 lots for a 300 dollar account. I only traded the 5M chart and took all signals based on the original rules and system. I only traded LO amd NY sessions.

bman204,

Trading 0.30 on a 300 account balance is well outside the ARS ratios and I am not suprised that your account is suffering. ARS is designed to help you keep your account losses to a level that is not account blowing. I suggest you either start with a larger account balance and trade per ARS or trade lower lots.

Evaluator.
  • #3,094
  • Nov 27, 2011 2:54pm Nov 27, 2011 2:54pm
Quoting vijayanscbe
Eval... thanks for sharing the nice system

Honestly on the 1st day of ur thread .. i think one more thread in "Trading

system"... but the system and rules r nice ....

i really love ur " am waiting for the gotcha moment " i too hav some exp in

blowing the acc so i took couple of months to accept ur system.

am watching this thread for long time.... results r nice and am having some

idea to improve earlier entries and to make profit in side ways...

any how i have to see results of my tweak and i will post it here possibly

with...

Welcome....
  • #3,095
  • Nov 27, 2011 2:56pm Nov 27, 2011 2:56pm
Quoting bman204
Hi, here's a recent attempt at a signal I received. All indicators were valid saying it was buy, and it was at a monthly support level. Luckily I moved my SL up otherwise it would have been a -50 pip loss.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/r...t_extreme1.png

I looked at nonlag MA like you MJ are testing with. I'm using a 40 length and 0.5 PCT, it seems to eliminate some whipsaws like this one shown above. And I want to be clear, in no way am I putting down this system, it seems to be working very well for most of you....

I only see 3 of 4 indikators in agreement. Where was the Exterme indikator pointed? up or down?
  • #3,096
  • Nov 27, 2011 3:00pm Nov 27, 2011 3:00pm
Quoting yelena
it was a valid entry and he didn't tweak it nor changed the indicator. take a look at your chart, the spike after the dot wasn't a new low. it was just a spike and not a colored spike. so, there's no repaint there.

i attached my chart. even the "goldsupercycle" i'm using plus the colored SEMA, both just recorded that very same low with a colored spike and the next repaint of a colored spike only occurred Nov 25 02:05.

yelena,

What indikator are you using that paints a dot on the candlesticks? Does it repaint?

Evaluator.
  • #3,097
  • Nov 27, 2011 3:11pm Nov 27, 2011 3:11pm
Quoting Evaluator
bman204,

Trading 0.30 on a 300 account balance is well outside the ARS ratios and I am not suprised that your account is suffering. ARS is designed to help you keep your account losses to a level that is not account blowing. I suggest you either start with a larger account balance and trade per ARS or trade lower lots.

Evaluator.
You read that wrong I was not trading .3 lots with 300 dollars, I don't even think my broker would allow that. I was trading .03 lots = 3000 units.

Quote
I only see 3 of 4 indikators in agreement. Where was the Exterme indikator pointed? up or down?

It showed an extreme bottom before I looked for the sentiment, emotion and trendline to show the same direction, then I took the trade. However, I will keep reading and trading this system, hopefully one day I will get good enough with it. Thanks.
  • #3,098
  • Edited 4:55pm Nov 27, 2011 4:34pm | Edited 4:55pm
Quoting Evaluator
yelena,

What indikator are you using that paints a dot on the candlesticks? Does it repaint?

Evaluator.
Eval,
The indicator is the goldenfinger ... and yes it repaints though only slightly.
Attached File(s)
File Type: mq4 GoldenFinger.mq4   5 KB | 682 downloads
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #3,099
  • Nov 27, 2011 5:16pm Nov 27, 2011 5:16pm
Quoting bman204
What do you mean by bear signal on the Extreme Indicator? Which indicator?
...that would be the extreme bottom or rather, extreme top for your case
.... laughing all the way to the bank
  • #3,100
  • Nov 27, 2011 5:29pm Nov 27, 2011 5:29pm
Would have been a nice 10 pip winner ;-)

Quoting bman204
Hi, here's a recent attempt at a signal I received. All indicators were valid saying it was buy, and it was at a monthly support level. Luckily I moved my SL up otherwise it would have been a -50 pip loss.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/r...t_extreme1.png

I looked at nonlag MA like you MJ are testing with. I'm using a 40 length and 0.5 PCT, it seems to eliminate some whipsaws like this one shown above. And I want to be clear, in no way am I putting down this system, it seems to be working very well for most of...
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