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Symphonie Trader System

  • #3,061
  • Nov 26, 2011 12:33am Nov 26, 2011 12:33am
Hi everyone,

The goal issue is interesting.....yes I have a goal and it's a weekly one: 500 pips that I'm achieving at about 60% of weeks....trading for living you need a goal and a plan....it's been very well said here be4...

I have 2 reasons for my weekly goal:
1) I don't like trading on Friday....Big Boyzs in the City like to quit early when they had a good week.....they just need some time to spend all their money LOL.....
2) I'm nearly a professional (playing main events of professional poker tournaments) Texas Holdem tournaments poker player (already won some in casinos in France and Vegas....)....so I need time too, as usually I don't play poker on my trading days....my poker week starts on Friday.

Trading mechanically 100% according to the plan is another issue....and I don't want to be long....so I'll just say I trade according to my plan about 90% of time....for the other 10% I achieve better results trading differently than trading with my plan

Last but not least, I trade London and half NY, observe 30 pairs and trade only those showing the best trending potential...I choose them every morning.....based on my own formula.

So I take the best of my system, similar to Eval's, which shows best results in trending markets...

Now time for entertainment and poker

Good week-end for everyone
Non licet omnibus adire Corinthum
  • #3,062
  • Nov 26, 2011 1:32am Nov 26, 2011 1:32am
Hi MJ,

I would like to send you a PM, so please send me one to tell me how to do it

Thanks
Non licet omnibus adire Corinthum
  • #3,063
  • Nov 26, 2011 2:21am Nov 26, 2011 2:21am
Quoting davidt76
Thanks, Cee -

For some reason, I can't view ex4 files in my list of custom templates and can only add mq4's manually. A weird problem that only a few people seem to have. Anyways, If you don't have the mq4 file, could you just put it up again attached to a tpl file? I can load it that way.
sorry i don't have an mq4. So heres a tp --strange behaviour.

best of luck
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl stmtfalert.tpl   1 KB | 426 downloads
  • #3,064
  • Nov 26, 2011 7:16am Nov 26, 2011 7:16am
Quoting jurn_e
MJ,

I did not notice the vouch until now.
Wow, thanks for my 1st Vouch.
Happy feet~

Since i got my 1st vouch.
Gonna share my graph, this live account was started trading on 15/11/2011.
70%+ trades are done using SEFC.
I would say its just normal performance, nothing to shout about.
Still need to trade more of SEFC to really get the feel of it.
nice trades!
may I ask how you manage your trades?
it looks like you have solid 20pipsTP for 15m. so, why dont you trail?
and do you use 20pipsSL as well? as 1:1 RR?
just want to know how you do your MM

keep it up!
J
  • #3,065
  • Nov 26, 2011 9:35am Nov 26, 2011 9:35am
Quoting Geges
[/b]

Also thanks for making the pdf your hard work is greatly appreciated.


Attachment
Hi,

This system is good as it is, no need to add the third generation MAs for extra confirmation.
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,066
  • Nov 26, 2011 9:56am Nov 26, 2011 9:56am
Quoting Jhfx
nice trades!
may I ask how you manage your trades?
it looks like you have solid 20pipsTP for 15m. so, why dont you trail?
and do you use 20pipsSL as well? as 1:1 RR?
just want to know how you do your MM

keep it up!
J
My weakness is my TP. But i will still share how i TP.

Here is my opinion:

Basically if i trade 5min my TP is +11pips.
If 15min my TP is +20 or more.
After i enter the trade, i see the momentum of the trade.
If its strong, the move will be fast and swift and the 15mins candle will have small wicks and bigger bodies. Then i will hold on to my trades longer until price reach extreme spike or a pivot or previous day high low or current daily open line.
I also look at market correlation, i have a mt4 platform with 6 charts on it.
EU, GU, USDCHF, EURJPY, GBPJPY, USDJPY
As you know EU and USDCHF is inversely correlated.

On SL wise, i don't have a fixed stoploss. I know this sounds crazy, but after trading for some time, i find that having a variable stoploss suits me better.
My stoploss is something like this. If price goes against me by -20pips, i will wait for a pullback to either -10 or breakeven, i will close the trade. If price goes against me by -30 to -40pips, i will cut loss at around -20 to -25pips.
This is based on the concept of Price does not move in a straight line.

This may not be the best R:R for trading. But it suits my trading style and psychology because when i see my position in negative, i won't freak out because i know market will always pullback to let me get out with a smaller loss.

I hope you get what i mean.
Pivot Boss in the making~
  • #3,067
  • Nov 26, 2011 12:15pm Nov 26, 2011 12:15pm
Quoting MaryJane
hi interesting question, i'm eager on replies.

I'd like to tell you my goals but i can't.. firstly i'm not a pro (fulltime traders apparently use them), secondly i can understand the merit of having a loss limit per day/session (mkt conditions, not feeling well etc - any subjective or objective reason) but i never understood the reasoning behind profit goals (i know the reasons being told in books etc but can't comprehend).

Limiting goals (aka 'got my pips and calling it a day') have a single one sensible reason: quitting the boring...
You have the same logic as I do this is what I always been thinking. However, there are still lots of people emphasizing on setting daily goals and limits. I guess these guys are the ones that are trading with a system that have a high % hit rate while their tp and sl is fixed and usually sl > tp. For them, their system works most of the time but when it doesnt work, account will drop a lot. So for obvious reasons, taking fewer trades usually means they have positive profit but when taking more trades (in the long run) they may be broken even or even having negative profits. Having said that, if they limit themselves to 2-3 trades per day seems like they are having consistent profit over weeks. They do not understand that the sample size of taking fewer trades are also smaller and are not an accurate view of the profitability of their system.
  • #3,068
  • Nov 26, 2011 3:20pm Nov 26, 2011 3:20pm
Quoting johnjwong
..there are still lots of people emphasizing on setting daily goals and limits. I guess these guys are the ones that are trading with a system that have a high % hit rate while their tp and sl is fixed and usually sl > tp.
i don't think so... especially not those trading for a living. RJ summed it up very nicely and even dimwit me can grasp the point:
Quoting realjumper
So, to wrap it up......I have a goal to reward myself with....
He treats it as a business and that's the way to go. I'm still in a freaky phase when i'm drinking, eating and almost sleeping it. I guess this will change with time.
Quoting realjumper
If I didn't have a goal, then I might be still be trading at 3 or 4am (greed), and then by the end of the week I'd be a ratty, shitty man to be around!!!
The nicest part, and very true. btw thank you RJ.

Another valid reason: the system resources of a human are limited as well. Imagine driving a car - nothing physically constraining, no puzzles to be solved (usually) - but you get tired too and your performance as a driver necessarily declines. Now, in addition to all the traffic turmoil and unexpected events you normally encounter on the road, imagine the road itself morphing before you in a highly unpredictable fashion (that's trading) - it can be really exhausting. The degree of the fatigue doesn't have to be striking at first sight (especially if your judgement is befogged by greed), the only indicator is the outcome of trades taken later in the session over an extended period of time. I can't disagree with this reasoning and will limit myself too if stats tell me. But as long as they don't, i will take every setup i would take the next day (or anytime) if i feel 100% sane and have the chart before my eyes - why not? why would i tell myself: 'hey, you can't today.. but if it was tomorrow, you could'.. i can barely imagine higher level nonsense, lol.. but especially this is preached by many.. 'make your pips then if you have free time watch the charts, trade demo, but not live'. i can't get it but agree that what's nonsensical to me can have great sense for many others (and vice versa). It can make sense to the kind of people who innately need some 'authority' above themselves - this authority can be a time unit - nothing against it if it helps!

/enough rambling for a week or 2

Quoting jurn_e
Hi,

This system is good as it is, no need to add the third generation MAs for extra confirmation.
agree 1000%, and you're great. please keep it up and post trades, your attitude is the best example available to anyone following this thread. i mean it and thank you, really!

btw i took a look at that third generation MA and can't imagine how to use it - i like MAs because they lag, what is an extremely responsive MA good for when it whipsaws along with the price! ..maybe for some hft scalp (lol mt4) instead of price(!?).. no point in here.

btw sad news for anyone awaiting the ea, it will take more time than i initially thought and i apologize for early promises i can't fulfill on time - shame on me. Eval was 100% right, i ran basic tests and it doesn't make sense, whipsaws take it down. Even the most conservative component - the trendline bashed by many for its slowness - allows for many whips. I'm sure it will be doable with a totally different 'philosophy' - the EA can't work in the usual "signalA+signalB+....signalX = buy/sell/close" mode, it needs a more different decision logic (multi-tier, probability scoring and additional filtering). I have never made anything such before but i have some clues. The goal is to capture only worthy moves, some kind of zooming out a small TF to get the moves of a larger TF but maintaining the precision level of the small TF.... lol thats crazyyyyy

attached: currently inventing a 4th generation whipkiller MA

be well and trade carefully
Attached Image(s) (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: original.png Size: 27 KB
Click to Enlarge Name: devel.png Size: 28 KB
MarginTrader All Time Return: na
  • #3,069
  • Nov 26, 2011 5:43pm Nov 26, 2011 5:43pm
I can't seem to get positive results with this system. I keep seeing success all over the thread following Eval's specific rules but I cannot replicate this success live. I have tested this for a month now with a small live account I can spare for testing purposes, but still no positive results. Please inform me as to what I am doing wrong, I will describe my entries/exits below.
I enter buys on the 5M chart when the extreme cycle signal shows a bottom (dark blue) and when the sentiment and emotion both turn blue, I enter at the close of the candle when the trendline turns blue, I do the same process but opposite for sells.

This is where I lose money, before the trendline turns a different color the price will be pushed up or lower by a large amount, at the close of this candle after I see the trendline turn the color I want I enter my sell or buy. So my buy or sell excecuted point is already pretty far up or down compaired to where price was just recently, add spread in there and it will take a good run to get any positive pips. Now if it is a false signal and starts to reverse I'm in big doo doo and makes me close my trade in negative. Many times i have seen the price barely reach my entry point after its retraced then it reverses on me, making me lose more pips. When I do get a good run going with positive pips I close out too early because I see another extreme signal telling me to exit, so I do. This type of trading I'm doing results in more amounts lost than gained.

I have also tried the method of putting a pending order below or above the extreme signal in a strong movement to keep making money. This was the biggest money loss in the account as everytime I put in a pending order I'd see it filled only to see another extreme signal come right after telling me to exit, because of the spread I was negative every trade I tried this with. I use Oanda with a 1.4 spread usually at LO or NY. I only traded EUR and NY times and on the 5M chart.

What am I doing wrong? I'm an intermediate level trader, I know supply/demand and have a good sense of PA, TA and FA. I didn't take trades at stupid times, all I did was follow the signals at points in demand/supply zones and at pivots but got negative results. Anyone able to point out my flaws? Please, it would be appreciated.

Regards,
  • #3,070
  • Nov 26, 2011 5:57pm Nov 26, 2011 5:57pm
Quoting bman204
I can't seem to get positive results with this system. I keep seeing success all over the thread following Eval's specific rules but I cannot replicate this success live. I have tested this for a month now with a small live account I can spare for testing purposes, but still no positive results. Please inform me as to what I am doing wrong, I will describe my entries/exits below.
I enter buys on the 5M chart when the extreme cycle signal shows a bottom (dark blue) and when the sentiment and emotion both turn blue, I enter at the close of the candle...
It would be much easier to help you if could post charts showing your entry points. It's very difficult to analyse and diagnose your trades if we can't see them on a chart
Doing what you like is Freedom. Liking what you do is Happiness.
  • #3,071
  • Nov 26, 2011 7:26pm Nov 26, 2011 7:26pm
Quoting bman204
I can't seem to get positive results with this system. I keep seeing success all over the thread following Eval's specific rules but I cannot replicate this success live. I have tested this for a month now with a small live account I can spare for testing purposes, but still no positive results. Please inform me as to what I am doing wrong, I will describe my entries/exits below.
I enter buys on the 5M chart when the extreme cycle signal shows a bottom (dark blue) and when the sentiment and emotion both turn blue, I enter at the close of the candle...
My backtest results shows me by simply following the rules, you are not profitable. I have backtested for about 3-4 weeks and each day about 1-2 week in data. So thats a good 30 weeks I have tested, some weeks I can have good results like 10-30%. But some, I lose around the same. The idea is that this system will work but only during when market is predictable and certainly not ranging. During whipsaw we will lose. No system is perfect, must not follow them blindly.
  • #3,072
  • Edited 8:43pm Nov 26, 2011 8:42pm | Edited 8:43pm
Quoting bman204
I can't seem to get positive results with this system.
I agree with RJ- please post specifics on charts and we can perhaps give you specific feedback. Aside from that two things pop to mind. First, how many trades(what period of time) have you actually traded this? And secondly, how are you losing- are you getting stopped out( and if so, what SL are you using) or are you closing trades manually when they do not look like winners from your point of view? Answer these, and we shall see if we can make a difference for you, and for the other 'lukers' in here who have the same experience, and yet have not posted or asked as of yet. Thanks, and look forward to hearing back from you.
Blessings, Monk E.
  • #3,073
  • Nov 26, 2011 8:54pm Nov 26, 2011 8:54pm
Quoting MaryJane
I'm still in a freaky phase when i'm drinking, eating and almost sleeping it. I guess this will change with time.
I have to agree with you...I believe this will change in time, and that'll be when you get you groove on...by that I mean, you find what works for you in your personal trading plan/your results/balancing whatever other demands you have on you and your life. I am re-inveneting myself in that regard, and find the outlet to accompany myself on that new paradigm in this thread by some other highly accomplished and very well-studied peeps as well...seemingly all working towards the same end.

Some of the answers so far on goals are a reflection of were people are in their evolution as traders- you can just hear it. I always find it interesting to hear others share on this subject.

And while on this topic, I must add one very important aspect(IMHO) to anyone's establishment of or management of goals for trading in their life.
If you use a daily goal, like RJ's say, of 75 pips, and you don't hit it, or even worse, you have a loss, you must be complete with that day that the day is over- there's no making it up- and adding unnecessary pressure to your daily platter for the following day, or even piling it up over a week and letting your interpreted shortcomings become a burden in one's self imposed reality. Let it go and begin your new day( or session) anew- without having to make up anything that didn't happen in the past.
Bastante for now. Happy Weekend to all....
Blessings, Monk E.
  • #3,074
  • Nov 26, 2011 10:43pm Nov 26, 2011 10:43pm
Quoting realjumper
It would be much easier to help you if could post charts showing your entry points. It's very difficult to analyse and diagnose your trades if we can't see them on a chart
I promised the wife I wouldn't turn the computer on this weekend, so I'm stealthy posting from my phone lol. My entries are purely based on the rules of the system, no extra formulation comes from me besides knowledge of pivot points and supply/demand. My SL when entering a trade is -50 pips as stated in the rules. When the trade goes my way I move the SL up to last unbroken area so my loses are less if it goes against me. If it's in profit I move to B/E and generally target 20 pips or exit on the next extreme cycle indicator like Eval has suggested in his rules. But, with a starting -50 pips risk and a uncertain amount of profit it just hasn't worked out because of the high risk, bad R:R, but I wouldn't know how to fix it to complement the system.

@We_R_12 - Like I stated, I traded a months time with a live account I could afford to crash. Used proper lot sizes for account - example 0.03 lots for a 300 dollar account. I only traded the 5M chart and took all signals based on the original rules and system. I only traded LO amd NY sessions.
  • #3,075
  • Nov 27, 2011 12:07am Nov 27, 2011 12:07am
Quoting MaryJane

btw sad news for anyone awaiting the ea, .....I have never made anything such before but i have some clues. The goal is to capture only worthy moves, some kind of zooming out a small TF to get the moves of a larger TF but maintaining the precision level of the small TF.... lol thats crazyyyyy


be well and trade carefully
Hi MaryJane,

I am not trading using EA's and don't think I will change that soon. This doesn't mean that I don't like your project as such. I think it's quite interesting, as you have shown/shared some very good input to this thread.

In your latest comment I think you made a good point. Using the precision of the smaller TF to shoot in the direction of the higher one. It makes sense with this system, although we are never able to tell if the trend in the higher TF will last.

When you use the spikes and arrows on the higher TF, wait for the shorter to fall back again and show some nice pa break to enter. Drawing lines for the shorter then will do, while always using proper MM. This really is not the promised land and it won't work under all market conditions, but in many cases you'll see that there is pull back after you get a signal. The shorter TF is perfect to watch that pull back and react when pa is clear again. This could be a little extra edge to trading the sytem, you will miss the hit and run on the higher TF though.

pbb
  • #3,076
  • Nov 27, 2011 4:13am Nov 27, 2011 4:13am
Quoting javajames
Hi MJ,

I would like to send you a PM, so please send me one to tell me how to do it

Thanks
I had PMs disabled from the very start.. i don't like background chit-chat.. but gave it a try:

Quoting javajames
Hi my dear MaryJane,

I saw your vouch to Jurn, OK no problem....BUT if there is someone who deserved your 1st vouch....he was of course EVAL.....so I'm surprised you haven' t done it....
If I were him I would be rather offended and upset with your first vouch.....not to be for him.
I know you enough from your posts (that I really appreciate) to allow me such a suggestion....There is nothing against you....but it's just I wouldn't like Eval to feel offended....so I'm sure you understand my point
Maybe you could PM to RJ about this point

Sorry if you don't agree with me .....no offence anyway... but I had to tell it...

Wish you all the best

Friendly yours
I vouched 4 people in this thread and Eval was the very first,
i gave my reasons - see bottom of this post,
then RJ and Jack Herer since i knew them from my lurking past and always appreciated their views,
then jurn_e for continued efforts and exceptional attitude.

btw the V's don't mean anything - look at myself
this is comedy, have fun. disabling the PMs again, this time for good.
bye#
MarginTrader All Time Return: na
  • #3,077
  • Nov 27, 2011 5:29am Nov 27, 2011 5:29am
Quoting MaryJane

I vouched 4 people in this thread and Eval was the very first,
well sorry, should have checked before
Non licet omnibus adire Corinthum
  • #3,078
  • Nov 27, 2011 7:21am Nov 27, 2011 7:21am
Quoting bman204
I promised the wife I wouldn't turn the computer on this weekend, so I'm stealthy posting from my phone lol.
cheers and keep the pc shut .. i'm sure we can elaborate on it but this is insufficient input.. RJ is right, we need context. looking forward to your charts later, gl
MarginTrader All Time Return: na
  • #3,079
  • Nov 27, 2011 8:39am Nov 27, 2011 8:39am
Eval... thanks for sharing the nice system

Honestly on the 1st day of ur thread .. i think one more thread in "Trading

system"... but the system and rules r nice ....

i really love ur " am waiting for the gotcha moment " i too hav some exp in

blowing the acc so i took couple of months to accept ur system.

am watching this thread for long time.... results r nice and am having some

idea to improve earlier entries and to make profit in side ways...

any how i have to see results of my tweak and i will post it here possibly

with in this week .

P.S. This is my 1st post after one year.
  • #3,080
  • Nov 27, 2011 10:55am Nov 27, 2011 10:55am
Quoting MaryJane
cheers and keep the pc shut .. i'm sure we can elaborate on it but this is insufficient input.. RJ is right, we need context. looking forward to your charts later, gl
Hi, here's a recent attempt at a signal I received. All indicators were valid saying it was buy, and it was at a monthly support level. Luckily I moved my SL up otherwise it would have been a -50 pip loss.

http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/r...t_extreme1.png

I looked at nonlag MA like you MJ are testing with. I'm using a 40 length and 0.5 PCT, it seems to eliminate some whipsaws like this one shown above. And I want to be clear, in no way am I putting down this system, it seems to be working very well for most of you. It's just that I have yet to master it and I am looking for anything that will help me do that. Thanks.
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