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Where is the EDGE in trading? The most important thing in trading!

  • #701
  • Aug 16, 2011 8:07pm Aug 16, 2011 8:07pm
Quoting pa18
candles look the same whatever the timeframe, do you agree?
no they don't.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #702
  • Aug 16, 2011 8:20pm Aug 16, 2011 8:20pm
Quoting nubcake
no they don't.
Really Nubcake? Give me a few minutes and I will post a couple of monthly charts and a couple of 1 min charts (the time frame and the price will be of course hidden) and I challenge you to tell me which is which.

Game?
  • #703
  • Aug 16, 2011 8:21pm Aug 16, 2011 8:21pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Really Nubcake? Give me a few minutes and I will post a couple of monthly charts and a couple of 1 min charts (the time frame and the price will be of course hidden) and I challenge you to tell me which is which.

Game?
make them clear to see. make them with enough data.... something in the ballpark of 2000 bars. i think i've got a chance.

i'll save you the trouble... don't bother. on 1m you get clear gaps during the morning as well as obviously over the weekend. on 1m you also get a lot of doji's rolling through in the morning. no brainer.

further to that just from the ATR movements during a 24hr period i can tell the 'sessions' on a 1m chart.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #704
  • Aug 16, 2011 8:42pm Aug 16, 2011 8:42pm
Quoting nubcake
make them clear to see. make them with enough data.... something in the ballpark of 2000 bars. i think i've got a chance.

i'll save you the trouble... don't bother. on 1m you get clear gaps during the morning as well as obviously over the weekend. on 1m you also get a lot of doji's rolling through in the morning. no brainer.

further to that just from the ATR movements during a 24hr period i can tell the 'sessions' on a 1m chart.
Well let's see about that. Look at the following chart, monthly or 1 min chart? And more importantly, how can you tell?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: chart1.png Size: 51 KB
  • #705
  • Aug 16, 2011 8:46pm Aug 16, 2011 8:46pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Well let's see about that. Look at the following chart, monthly or 1 min chart?
considering you didn't provide the required amount of data as requested in an effort to rig it in your favor, combined with the fact that you didn't scrub out the 2010 2011 yearly markers at the top of the chart... i can only take a guess that it's monthly. but since you didn't provide enough data you could have shopped the top markers to throw the game.

also, the granularity of some of the doji's suggests there is too much precision possible and therefore is a higher timeframe chart instead of a 1m. but that might just be the image compression playing tricks.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #706
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:01pm Aug 16, 2011 9:01pm
How about this one, daily chart or 15 min chart? And again, how can you tell?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #707
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:12pm Aug 16, 2011 9:12pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
How about this one, daily chart or 15 min chart? And again, how can you tell?
i said 1 minute charts. again, you have provided not only the wrong timeframes, but also still not enough data.

but to take a guess.... it's 15min. why? if they were daily bars their atr's are very wild, whereas a 15min is likely to spike from small bars or doji's to large bars as this chart appears to. but then again, i don't know what the vertical scaling is and it could very-well be exaggerated.

so? 0, 1, or 2 out of 2 so far? considering they are educated guesses based on criteria far outside of what i specifically said!

just tell me my score and be done with it because this game bores me. you aren't even providing the requested data.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #708
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:13pm Aug 16, 2011 9:13pm
Quoting nubcake
considering you didn't provide the required amount of data as requested in an effort to rig it in your favor
Nubcake, even if I go back to the year 2000, there are only about 132 monthly bars (12 months x 11 years = 132) I can post on the screen.
  • #709
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:18pm Aug 16, 2011 9:18pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Nubcake, even if I go back to the year 2000, there are only about 132 monthly bars (12 months x 11 years = 132) I can post on the screen.
then why choose monthly. you could just as well have chosen 1m versus 1hr, or 1m versus daily.

so, no score? whatever. game over.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #710
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:21pm Aug 16, 2011 9:21pm
Quoting nubcake

but to take a guess.... it's 15min. why? if they were daily bars their atr's are very wild, whereas a 15min is likely to spike from small bars or doji's to large bars as this chart appears to.
Wrong Sherlock, those are daily bars from the USD/NOK, from February 17 to now We can continue all night and your score will be near 50% correct answers (random predictions).

See how difficult it is to tell the difference when the time frame is hidden?

But granted, the lower the time frame, the bigger the noise, that we all agree on.
  • #711
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:26pm Aug 16, 2011 9:26pm
Quoting Mr Breakout
Wrong Sherlock, those are daily bars from the USD/NOK, from February 17 to now

See how difficult it is to tell the difference when the time frame is hidden?

But granted, the lower the time frame, the bigger the noise, that we all agree on.
no great loss. it was not only not the timeframe i specifically said, it was also not the amount of data specifically requested. i'm not about to agree with you when you don't even provide the data and i admit they are simply guesses.

but if you were to have done those things you would have to risk being proven wrong that you can in fact pick a 1m chart over others when you have enough data to scrutinize. maybe if you spent just a little bit of time looking at 1m data you would see clearly the markers that make it as obvious as day that the chart is a 1m chart... and not only that it's a piece of piss to mark off the exact times on the chart if you have over a weeks worth of data... it's simple stuff.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #712
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:33pm Aug 16, 2011 9:33pm
you can't seriously tell me that just by looking at the bar data alone that you can't see where the day starts, end, and where the london session begins! seriously. i'm not even going to bother hiding shit... the point is obvious just by looking at the chart. it's clear as day.

anyway. i'm over it. you won't believe it even when it's staring you in the face.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #713
  • Aug 16, 2011 9:38pm Aug 16, 2011 9:38pm
Quoting zznbrm
Please don't stop...it's like an Abbott and Costello bit, Forex style!
The goal of this little experiment was to prove that it is very hard to distinguish between lower and higher time frames, given let's say 200 bars of data.

Reres claims that is impossible to make money on the 5 min bars for example because these bars are "different" (??) than the daily bars . Well there are dozens of powerful EA that make consistent profits daily on the 5 min time frame, day in and day out.

Of course these EA's make very small pips on each trade, but since they trade 20 or 25 times a day on autopilot, the profits quickly add up.
  • #714
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:11pm Aug 16, 2011 10:11pm
fact - time frame doesn't matter, they all look and behave the same

if I'm trading smaller time frame, why do I need 2000 bars (on the smaller time frame) of data? I'm trading in the moment and with the recent history, not 5 years back.
  • #715
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:21pm Aug 16, 2011 10:21pm
Quoting pa18
fact - time frame doesn't matter, they all look and behave the same

if I'm trading smaller time frame, why do I need 2000 bars of data? I'm trading in the moment and with the recent history, not 5 years back.
you don't need 2000 bars of data you muppet! i was asking for that much so i had enough data to conclude that i was looking, or not looking, at a 1m chart. this has nothing to do with trading, and was only about the fact that a 1m chart IS different to higher timeframe charts and can be identified on the basis of purely looking at enough data (HENCE THE REQUEST FOR 2000 BARS!). get the point, or keep quiet.

fact... timeframe matters. if you think the volatility on a 1m chart over a day scales upwards and resembles the volatility on a daily chart or higher then you have no clue.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #716
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:22pm Aug 16, 2011 10:22pm
Quoting pa18

if I'm trading smaller time frame, why do I need 2000 bars of data? I'm trading in the moment and with the recent history, not 5 years back.
Exactly

Personally my systems only need the last 100 bars to generate buy sell signals, that's it.

Because let's face it, who needs support and resistance lines dating from War World 1 to trade, anyway?
  • #717
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:30pm Aug 16, 2011 10:30pm
wow. you guys really can't understand simple concepts. even when it's spelled out for you. is ignorance really bliss? i wouldn't know, so someone clue me in plz!


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...sT_upiUOM4h4RQ
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
  • #718
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:34pm Aug 16, 2011 10:34pm
Oh, hey.... you guys found something new to argue about..... right on.
  • #719
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:38pm Aug 16, 2011 10:38pm
Quoting nubcake
you don't need 2000 bars of data you muppet! i was asking for that much so i had enough data to conclude that i was looking, or not looking, at a 1m chart. this has nothing to do with trading, and was only about the fact that a 1m chart IS different to higher timeframe charts and can be identified on the basis of purely looking at enough data (HENCE THE REQUEST FOR 2000 BARS!). get the point, or keep quiet.

fact... timeframe matters. if you think the volatility on a 1m chart over a day scales upwards and resembles the volatility on a daily...
Look at this image Nubcake, it's called a fractal image (google for "fractal images" and see how beautiful they are). It has been generated by a computer using a complex mathematical formula.

At first glance it seems like a unique image, but if you keep zooming you will quickly notice that the same exact motif keeps repeating itself over and over and over and over.

Well the market behaves the same exact way. Like I said in another post, the market is fractal in nature, what goes on the monthly chart also happens on the 1 min chart, just like this fractal image.
Attached Image
  • #720
  • Aug 16, 2011 10:52pm Aug 16, 2011 10:52pm
the market is not a fractal. it simply appears that way to idiots who don't know what the hell they are talking about....

show me some of the infinite zooming in going down in timeframes a few levels past the 1m chart. what is that? you can't? why? why can't you if the market is a fractal? oh that's right, it's not a fractal.

the market charts are ALL generated from ticks. that's as low as it goes. period. and from that the first summary is the 1m chart... and upward we go. then you have effects from different hourly participants creating patterns of volatility within each day... then different days of the week having unique patterns again of volatility... finally hitting the weekend when everyone is out of the market.

iteratively re-summarizing data over and over does not a fractal make!!!

so keep believing in your own lies. i'm done talking to people who TRULY don't know any better. i posted a clear example of a 1m chart that clearly shows the start and end of the day as well as makes it obvious where the london crew start for the day, and these type of markers are evident day after day. yet you can't see it. it's right there. but no, you can't see it.

ok. all charts are the same baaaah baaaaaah, someone lead me to the slaughter plz quick!!!!! idiots.
Congratulations ScalaFX for coming out of the closet!
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