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Building an equity millipede

  • #4,741
  • Aug 3, 2011 1:12pm Aug 3, 2011 1:12pm
Quoting cameron1st
I also have rules about how many losers I can have in a week and other things like that, very tight rules, 2 losers reaching SL in a week (SL is 10 pips for me including spread), and I sit on my hands until the next week. This kind of pressure helps me stay focused and taking only the setups I consider "sure".
Hi Cam,

With this SL, I assume you are trading the 5 min or the 15 min chart and possibly one pair, maybe EU. Coz other pairs have higher spread. How has your experience been with such a small SL and the limit of 2 full losses per week? Have you been trading this way for a long time or just starting?
  • #4,742
  • Aug 3, 2011 1:48pm Aug 3, 2011 1:48pm
Quoting kcravey
I have found that my edge for entries is knowing the currency, its patterns, its trendlines, etc. Getting into it's rhythm. Its kind of like the ocean, it ebbs and flows, the tide comes in and goes out.

I trade only G/U and have 20 charts and every time frame opened to see it from every possible angle. I have my charts labeled with BUY ZONE for the bottom half of the trend and SELL ZONE on the top half of the trend. Like swing trading - when you reach the high, you sell and when you reach the bottom, you buy on the retracement.

So,...
Hello.

I am excitedly working my way through the this thread and I noticed your post about your chart setup and method. It sounds very logical and it looks like a very good way to guide you in the correct direction.

Can you post a picture of one of your charts (or a template would be fantastic) so I can try to re-create it.

Thanks!
  • #4,743
  • Aug 3, 2011 2:26pm Aug 3, 2011 2:26pm
Quoting Eklavya
Hi Cam,
With this SL, I assume you are trading the 5 min or the 15 min chart and possibly one pair, maybe EU. Coz other pairs have higher spread. How has your experience been with such a small SL and the limit of 2 full losses per week? Have you been trading this way for a long time or just starting?
Hi Eklavya,

I replied to you privately, would rather keep the thread on the topic of millipede

Kindest Regards,

Cam
  • #4,744
  • Aug 4, 2011 7:31am Aug 4, 2011 7:31am
Hi everybody,

I would just like to share my experience with regards to building an equity millipede. The idea behind building a millipede and what it could do was very interesting to me. However i am a lazy guy and i chose to do things the easy way out. I didnt follow the 3 months rule of doing 3 trades a day and chose to go with the easiest method of setting orders every 100 pips up and down of current prices. And then again i wasnt very diligent in refreshing those orders when they were stopped out. But anyway here goes.....

I started out with 194.20 SGD in my oanda account in april 2011 and created a sub account where each account would be for orders in 1 direction. I looked around for a currency that was moving decisively in 1 direction and was not in consolidation. I found USD/CHF. Deciding to do a test, i used the smallest unit available in oanda which is 1 unit. Yes, it reads 1/1000 of a micro lot. the pip value was almost nothing which was great since all i wanted was to do some testing.

Along the way, my first leg of the millipede was in losses for long time. it took me 1 month letting that millipede run until i had enough in floating profit to cancel out the losses incurred at the same time had positions to bring it into the long term holding positions.

slowly i became used to building a millipede. i develop a thinking that breakevens are winners. In the first leg, i would only change the stoploss of a position to breakeven when it was a 100pips up. From then on, whenever i saw a position in profit, eg. minimum 20pips or so, i brought them to breakeven straight. it saved me alot on incurring positions with a full 100pips SL.

A week or 2 back, i was looking at the profit my open positions was sitting on and decided i could start increasing the lotsize and upgraded the default lot size to 5 units now( ya i know, big deal =p) but i would like to take a steady approach to bring the units up.

4 months now, this are my results. i have taken 1100pips in profit. Well it really isnt spectacular since i have used 1 unit and it resulted in only a 0.39% increase in my account balance. but i think the most important thing to show is the open positions i have currently.

i have positions at this levels,
0.92
0.89
0.88
0.83
0.82
0.81
0.80

Well i will be continuing to slowly increase my lotsize as we go along and see how things go. Meanwhile i wish the best to all traders trying to build up their millipede.

B
  • #4,745
  • Aug 4, 2011 3:53pm Aug 4, 2011 3:53pm
Quoting Autumm
Hi everybody,

I would just like to share my experience with regards to building an equity millipede. The idea behind building a millipede and what it could do was very interesting to me. However i am a lazy guy and i chose to do things the easy way out. I didnt follow the 3 months rule of doing 3 trades a day and chose to go with the easiest method of setting orders every 100 pips up and down of current prices. And then again i wasnt very diligent in refreshing those orders when they were stopped out. But anyway here goes.....

I started out with...
Hi Autumm.

I am doing a similar exercise to learn this method. I have a live account where I am trading small positions. I start each position with 0.02 lots ($2000) which works out to be $0.20 cents per pip.

When the position hits +100 pips, I automatically close half of the position and let the remaining half run.

Like you, I was also initially leaving the stop loss at 100 pips, but now I have really tightened them up as price action allows and it has helped my results a lot.

I started this on July 20th, 2011.

I have made 115 trades

59 winners (51%)
26 break even (23%)
30 Losers (26%)

Closed positions net +802 pips

9 open positions running... currently +1940 pips.

This has been a complete paradigm shift for me and I am really enjoying it.

As my confidence has increased, so has my lot size.

Cheers to all !
  • #4,746
  • Aug 4, 2011 4:28pm Aug 4, 2011 4:28pm
Quoting Runway
Hi Autumm.

I am doing a similar exercise to learn this method. I have a live account where I am trading small positions. I start each position with 0.02 lots ($2000) which works out to be $0.20 cents per pip.

When the position hits +100 pips, I automatically close half of the position and let the remaining half run.

Like you, I was also initially leaving the stop loss at 100 pips, but now I have really tightened them up as price action allows and it has helped my results a lot.

I started this on July 20th, 2011.

I have made 115 trades

59...
Nice work Runway It's a joy to see others also making good progress.
After a few stacks that sticks it really takes of doesn't it
The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent.
  • #4,747
  • Aug 4, 2011 6:26pm Aug 4, 2011 6:26pm
Quoting Eklavya
The market did not go as I wanted it to go. So I just followed it. Here is my current status on the pair.
Realized profit - 850 pips
Realized Loss - 359 pips in going long. 41 pips in going short.
Unrealized profit - 550 pips. 3 Short and 1 Long positions open.
Markets seems to be abnormal today. A straight drop like a stone with no retrace whatsoever. Anyway, a quick update. Was able to stick in three more shorts. Have not been able to get in anymore shorts.

Unrealized profits - 2250 pips.

Is this the start of something huge??
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #4,748
  • Aug 6, 2011 4:53am Aug 6, 2011 4:53am
Quoting EmeraldEyes
I demo'd this mindset from Feb-Apr and it's still growing. Currently @ 300% increase.
I logged in to my papertrade acct just to see what its at.. now @ 880% profit! lol
  • #4,749
  • Edited 7:48pm Aug 6, 2011 5:43pm | Edited 7:48pm
Just curious to see what kind of response we might get to this question:

Is there an 'edge' in this approach to trading? If yes, what is it?

EDIT:
excluding growth, participation and low risk entries, price action, hindsight, anticipation etc which I view as foundational elements to be successful.
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,750
  • Aug 6, 2011 9:05pm Aug 6, 2011 9:05pm
Hi V,

I'm not sure exactly what you are asking here as there is no objective trading approach in this thread, so if they are following the posts here any edge is due to the traders discretionary abilities. Your edit excluded what in IMHO is the main thrust of this thread and the key points to adopt - participate, anticipate, growth, and trade both ways. How traders choose to take those points and use it in a consistently profitable approach would be a complete series of separate threads to which any edge could be discussed. I really don't feel there is any edge presented in the content within this thread.

All my best,
MK
  • #4,751
  • Aug 6, 2011 9:32pm Aug 6, 2011 9:32pm
Quoting VEEFX
Just curious to see what kind of response we might get to this question:

Is there an 'edge' in this approach to trading? If yes, what is it?

EDIT:
excluding growth, participation and low risk entries, price action, hindsight, anticipation etc which I view as foundational elements to be successful.
i believe the edge in this approach is that it forces the trader to practise the common saying of "Cut your losses early and let your profits run". Something which most traders are not able to follow once they see that they have a large floating profit
  • #4,752
  • Aug 6, 2011 11:13pm Aug 6, 2011 11:13pm
Quoting VEEFX
Just curious to see what kind of response we might get to this question:

Is there an 'edge' in this approach to trading? If yes, what is it?

EDIT:
excluding growth, participation and low risk entries, price action, hindsight, anticipation etc which I view as foundational elements to be successful.
Hi Vee,

I actually think the things you mention in the Edit are actually part of the edge, ie, lets take 'participation': regularly participating in the market with consistency, this is an edge over someone who ceases to participate when their losses mount up and then miss a nice move. Thus not enabling the randomness to aid them.

I guess, it is all by degrees. In the end maybe ones edge is how one applies all these things and adapts them to make oneself profitable.
  • #4,753
  • Aug 7, 2011 1:27am Aug 7, 2011 1:27am
Thanks for your responses. Here's my list...

1. "continuous cycle of generalized price action". It repeats and repeats on all timeframes. Knowing this would tell you when to trade and when not to trade. I guess one could consider this as price action but I don't. It ties well into the theory of inevitability discussed by Graeme in this thread.

2. 'Set to BE' as part of MM strategy during stacking/pyramiding to amplify account growth.

3. Follow the price in both directions resulting in freezing profits. I still struggle to get this straight in my head though.

4. Buy only above Daily Open and Sell only below Daily Open... this makes a lot of sense to me. Zoom out M5 chart and you will see how price reacts around 00 GMT.

5. I like this one too .... increase exposure not by increasing lot size or positions in one pair but by adding more pairs in your portfolio.
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,754
  • Aug 7, 2011 4:33am Aug 7, 2011 4:33am
Hi Vee, mates

My opinion is that "the edge" or "essential" to profitable trading at all, and in Building equity millipede in particular is having enough discipline, to be able to adopt it to right (potentially profitable) strategy.

Discipline here is not only stringent following of the strategy rules including greed and fear control, but also trust in strategy and enough patience to continue your journey through series of losses and profits.

Discipline means also having contingent thinking all the time just in case, because as we know market is ever changing and right discipline is not following exact rules all the time, irrespectively of the market, but also knowing when to defensively watch and when to start aggressive action.

One can argue that "good" strategy should include everything, all the rules for ANY market or your BALANCE conditions.
All you need is just following it strictly.

But I reckon profitable trading is not fully tangible discipline, like an art - you can explain in words what you need to do in order to paint a masterpiece of Van Gogh, but following those instructions strictly doesn't automatically make you Van Gogh in art.

Regards,
Alexander
  • #4,755
  • Aug 7, 2011 8:17am Aug 7, 2011 8:17am
Quoting VEEFX
Just curious to see what kind of response we might get to this question:

Is there an 'edge' in this approach to trading? If yes, what is it?

EDIT:
excluding growth, participation and low risk entries, price action, hindsight, anticipation etc which I view as foundational elements to be successful.
Hi Vee,

In my view, no system or method has an edge. It's the people that have an edge over others. There are traders making money out there with a very large variety of systems/methods...from scalping, to swing and position trading and there are others using exactly the same systems or methods that are losing money.

You can take this thread for example, probably a handful only are making money with this method whilst the rest are still demo trading, or trading with microlots etc. (there's nothing wrong with that, just pointing out that whilst we all have access to the same information, same method, still... only few are making money).

Kindest Regards,

Cam
  • #4,756
  • Aug 7, 2011 12:56pm Aug 7, 2011 12:56pm
Quoting cameron1st
Hi Vee,

In my view, no system or method has an edge. It's the people that have an edge over others. There are traders making money out there with a very large variety of systems/methods...from scalping, to swing and position trading and there are others using exactly the same systems or methods that are losing money.

You can take this thread for example, probably a handful only are making money with this method whilst the rest are still demo trading, or trading with microlots etc. (there's nothing wrong with that, just pointing out that whilst...
Thanks Cam. I enjoyed reading your recent posts.. clearly reflects that you have evolved into a bigger person in regards to your trading phycology. Something that we all will/should get there one day. I join others and appreciate learning from your wisdom.

On the current topic, I think human element is a biggest factor to anyone's success (unless you are into HFT/quant). I should have excluded that in my EDIT.

I must admit, I feel a bit disappointed with the responses. Graeme has spend countless posts on numerous trading approaches to market... i.e flying buddahs, Full Body Bars, 3rd H4 candle defining trend, daily open, 00 line, compelling momentum breaks and exiting the trade if it does not fire off in the right direction, 'know your pair like you know your wife' i,e completely understand the behavior of the pair you trade and use that as a statistical edge, theorems/opportunity cycles, forecasting future growth from your own trading statistics, techniques to be a position manager and the right mindset to manage a large portfolio of positions, weekend plan for hindsight/anticipation
etc
etc
etc

My intension was to stir up a dialogue among readers on what can be considered an 'edge' from the above list of 'active ingredients' to enable personal and professional growth as a trader. I guess I failed in my attempt !
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,757
  • Aug 7, 2011 1:23pm Aug 7, 2011 1:23pm
Vee, from your last post I feel like you wanted to discuss certain "good elements" of trading approach of Building Equity Millipede, but not the "edge" enabling to reach positive results as you asked.

In my view "edge" is a single thing or feature or skill, whilst all those you listed are merely techniques constituting the core of Graeme's trading approach.

Perhaps we have different understanding of what "edge" is, so you've got your disappointment over replies received whilst I got a feeling that you intended to ask about things which are different from what you have actually asked in my view.

Here I tend to agree to Cam's answer that it is people who are able to apply techniques correctly is a key to success, not the techniques themselves.
In my reply I named that feature or "edge" as "discipline".

Regards,
Alexander
  • #4,758
  • Aug 7, 2011 1:25pm Aug 7, 2011 1:25pm
Quoting VEEFX
Thanks Cam. I enjoyed reading your recent posts.. clearly reflects that you have evolved into a bigger person in regards to your trading phycology. Something that we all will/should get there one day. I join others and appreciate learning from your wisdom.
Thank you for the kind words Vee, I was only trying to reply to the topic at hand, if the posts helped anyone, that would be good, but I doubt that they are anything more than "interesting reading" for others.

Quoting VEEFX
I must admit, I feel a bit disappointed with the responses. Graeme has spend countless posts on numerous trading approaches to market... i.e flying buddahs, Full Body Bars, 3rd H4 candle defining trend, daily open, 00 line, compelling momentum breaks and exiting the trade if it does not fire off in the right direction, 'know your pair like you know your wife' i,e completely understand the behavior of the pair you trade and use that as a statistical edge, theorems/opportunity cycles, forecasting future growth from your own trading statistics, techniques to be a position manager and the right mindset to manage a large portfolio of positions, weekend plan for hindsight/anticipation
Most the items you listed are related to entries, the greatest thing I learned from Graeme about entries is risk management. Remember many times he said he would not try twice the same setup (except on very rare occasions). Most didn't get it... I didn't get it for a long time. Once I started applying that, it made an important difference in keeping my previously earned profits. As I wrote previously these days I stop for the week if two trades hit SL (but I can take up to 4 partial losses, when I close the trade before it reaching SL). Some wrote me on privately stating it's not a viable plan... which is fine, that's how an edge is created, you do something others don't want to do, others don't see a reason for.

Kindest Regards,

Cam
  • #4,759
  • Aug 7, 2011 2:18pm Aug 7, 2011 2:18pm
Quoting AlexanderSV
Vee, from your last post I feel like you wanted to discuss certain "good elements" of trading approach of Building Equity Millipede, but not the "edge" enabling to reach positive results as you asked.

In my view "edge" is a single thing or feature or skill, whilst all those you listed are merely techniques constituting the core of Graeme's trading approach.

Perhaps we have different understanding of what "edge" is, so you've got your disappointment over replies received whilst I got a feeling that you intended to ask about things which...
Perhaps I differ from others in their definition of edge. I view edge as 'something' that pushes the probability in your favor. Knowing your 'edge' in any trading system/method/approach is quite important imo. We all know by now, we cannot trade exactly like Graeme as there are no step by step rules to follow. That's what has really attracted me to this thread. It makes you think hard and create your own recipe for success.

So if you are successful in tweaking this approach into your trading plan, what is that edge? In Graeme's terminology, what is your "One Thing" that makes you profitable in your opinion (i.e. if at all you are profitable or getting closer to being profitable). I think it is important to know this element in order to shoot for consistency.

Thanks again for all your responses.

p.s. I got multiple 'One Thing' working for me at the moment and next few months (or another year) would define what type of trader/investor I want to be. Only then I would want to work on my business and trading plan (different from the weekly plan discussed earlier) and take this 'profession' by storm :-
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,760
  • Edited Aug 8, 2011 5:24am Aug 7, 2011 3:25pm | Edited Aug 8, 2011 5:24am
Ok, Vee, now it's much easier for me to articulate those "things" which help. Thank you for your detailed message.

Personally, stacking aggressively when iron is hot and holding positions for much longer are those two things which changed my results completely.

Can't yet say I'm consistently profitable, it's too early to make such conclusions, but those two things help me to overcome pipswise some bad habits which are still on my radar of improvement - namely sloppy entries, sometimes overtrading - more than one try per setup..

Regards,
Alexander
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