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  • #4,661
  • Jul 17, 2011 2:22pm Jul 17, 2011 2:22pm
the point is when you can easily make 3x20

u should be able to easily make 3x21

or 3x22

or 3x200

or 3x1000

which way u'll go?

u definitely will go higher numbers, right?

if not, you miss the whole point of this thread.

Quoting MidKnight
Hi all,

I'm going to ask a question that has been nagging me since Graeme first mentioned the 3x20 pip exercise early in the thread. If anyone can successfully do 3x20 pip per day, why bother at all with this long term trading approach? Grabbing 60 pips per day consistently would give a far far less volatile equity curve than doing these millipedes and create much less frustration than watching ones legs die repeatedly.

This is a serious question, I'm not trolling here.

With kind regards,
MK
  • #4,662
  • Jul 17, 2011 2:37pm Jul 17, 2011 2:37pm
Quoting MidKnight
Hi all,

I'm going to ask a question that has been nagging me since Graeme first mentioned the 3x20 pip exercise early in the thread. If anyone can successfully do 3x20 pip per day, why bother at all with this long term trading approach? Grabbing 60 pips per day consistently would give a far far less volatile equity curve than doing these millipedes and create much less frustration than watching ones legs die repeatedly.

This is a serious question, I'm not trolling here.

With kind regards,
MK
He actually said you could, if you get skillful enough.
  • #4,663
  • Jul 17, 2011 5:35pm Jul 17, 2011 5:35pm
Quoting MidKnight
Hi all,

I'm going to ask a question that has been nagging me since Graeme first mentioned the 3x20 pip exercise early in the thread. If anyone can successfully do 3x20 pip per day, why bother at all with this long term trading approach? Grabbing 60 pips per day consistently would give a far far less volatile equity curve than doing these millipedes and create much less frustration than watching ones legs die repeatedly.

This is a serious question, I'm not trolling here.

With kind regards,
MK
Hi MK,
logic would have it that if you where upskilled enough to be consistant with the 3x20 exercise, you may just be able to make it work, a lot of work though.
i think the reasoning behind the exercise was to upskill our price interpratation, not to show us we could be great at scalping, but to hone our skills in seeing how the market reacts, and learn when to load up and when to tippy toe.
i could be wrong though
  • #4,664
  • Jul 17, 2011 6:20pm Jul 17, 2011 6:20pm
Quoting MidKnight
Hi all,

I'm going to ask a question that has been nagging me since Graeme first mentioned the 3x20 pip exercise early in the thread. If anyone can successfully do 3x20 pip per day, why bother at all with this long term trading approach? Grabbing 60 pips per day consistently would give a far far less volatile equity curve than doing these millipedes and create much less frustration than watching ones legs die repeatedly.

This is a serious question, I'm not trolling here.

With kind regards,
MK
Like what charvo said...if you can scalp a 20 pip winner why not just set your stop at B/E and let the trend determine its fate. So if you can put on 3 positions a day win minimal losses you are likely to catch a major trend for major profit.
Twitter: @zusch_ -- Preselecting trending pairs, stocks on a weekly basis.
  • #4,665
  • Jul 17, 2011 7:32pm Jul 17, 2011 7:32pm
Good morning all,

Yes, I understand the point of the exercise was to improve price interpretation and get your trades to BE. I'm in no way questioning the goal of the exercise.

My question was more of if one could master the exercise, why would you want to hold on for long term gains. Holding on for the long term gains means you get a ton of BE results and small losers and can also go months without pulling in a profit, and the volatility of the equity curve will be so much higher. I personally see it as being less work going for 3x20 (20 is just an example, I would never be so rigid) than it would be putting a trade on, setting it to BE after 20p is reached and then leaving it run.

If anyone thinks they can get 3x1000 a day - GOOD LUCK with that dream! LOL.

All my best,
MK
  • #4,666
  • Jul 17, 2011 11:07pm Jul 17, 2011 11:07pm
Quoting MidKnight
My question was more of if one could master the exercise, why would you want to hold on for long term gains. Holding on for the long term gains means you get a ton of BE results and small losers and can also go months without pulling in a profit, and the volatility of the equity curve will be so much higher. I personally see it as being less work going for 3x20 (20 is just an example, I would never be so rigid) than it would be putting a trade on, setting it to BE after 20p is reached and then leaving it run.

If anyone thinks they can get...
Explain how equity volatility would be so much higher with more diversified long term trades across the market than with limited profits on intraday trades. My personal experience is the opposite.

I believe the exersise is for new traders to get familiar with price action. ie; If you can tune your entries on an intraday chart to gain consistent 20 pips, then you can work it on a weekly chart to pull in 500.
  • #4,667
  • Edited 5:21am Jul 18, 2011 1:25am | Edited 5:21am
Quoting MidKnight
Good morning all,

Yes, I understand the point of the exercise was to improve price interpretation and get your trades to BE. I'm in no way questioning the goal of the exercise.

My question was more of if one could master the exercise, why would you want to hold on for long term gains. Holding on for the long term gains means you get a ton of BE results and small losers and can also go months without pulling in a profit, and the volatility of the equity curve will be so much higher. I personally see it as being less work going for 3x20 (20...
Good morning,

I remember from what I read here, Graeme was giving example of why focusing on fixed relatively small TP is a long-term way to account degradation in most cases unless your entries are very accurate and your winrate is very high. In his example he used 80 pp TP and the point was to check trader's good entries and see how far price went in favour of the trade after it was closed at merely 80 pp.
Conclusion was that risking so many SLs to get those trades and limiting their profits only to relatively small fixed TP of 80 or whatever pips is not best effective practice. If trader would hold those trades, profits would be much much bigger, but later.

HOWEVER, must say that everything is all relative and in ranging, indecisive markets 80 TP would work much better, creating good piles of profit. Note here - even Graeme when he was doing trading here with us for the sake of the thread, on few occasions was aiming just for 100 pp profit hard TP, leaving 1 position for free with BE. There were conditions on the market when price was bouncing for many weeks, 3-4 or more, so just to show that method works even in those conditions, but with small adaptation, he limited TP to 100 pp, STILL leaving 1 position at BE for long-term growth.


Best regards,
Alexander
  • #4,668
  • Jul 18, 2011 2:15am Jul 18, 2011 2:15am
Quoting EmeraldEyes
Explain how equity volatility would be so much higher with more diversified long term trades across the market than with limited profits on intraday trades. My personal experience is the opposite.

I believe the exersise is for new traders to get familiar with price action. ie; If you can tune your entries on an intraday chart to gain consistent 20 pips, then you can work it on a weekly chart to pull in 500.
In your personal experience that you are describing above, you are saying that your are consistently doing 3x20 per day? If not, then how can you compare your personal experience to my query?

Also, as I said in my prior post - I know what the point of the exercise was and I'm not questioning that.
  • #4,669
  • Jul 18, 2011 2:47am Jul 18, 2011 2:47am
I said my personal experience about equity curve volatility decreases as time goes on.

I didn't say per day. Its intraday charting. Some days are near impossible to trade profitably or its not your fault when a trade loses. I think you're describing a different strategy in your post so sorry for misinfo.
  • #4,670
  • Edited 7:08am Jul 18, 2011 4:40am | Edited 7:08am
Quoting MidKnight
In your personal experience that you are describing above, you are saying that your are consistently doing 3x20 per day? If not, then how can you compare your personal experience to my query?

Also, as I said in my prior post - I know what the point of the exercise was and I'm not questioning that.
Hey MK,

I guess it all depends on how many losses you incur on the way to 3*20. Assuming you can get 3 times 20 pips with limited losses then it just becomes a question of tolerance - whether you want that 20 pips or move to BE and wait for something bigger.

But you make a good observation. I guess, develop the skill of being able to grab 20 pips at will, with limited losses, then there are any number of ways to profit.

SJB
  • #4,671
  • Jul 18, 2011 12:05pm Jul 18, 2011 12:05pm
I don't think anyone can do the 3X20 exercise profitably over the long term. It is just not possible.

But if one does the exercise consistently, one will learn how to identify momentum based setups and learn patience. Remember, only one position at a time. If price does not move your way, it is excruciatingly painful to wait for it to hit SL(while you have setups over other pairs) before attempting another try.

Once one is upskilled to identify momentum based setups, one can use that on higher time frame to stack positions when those setups do work out.
  • #4,672
  • Jul 18, 2011 12:26pm Jul 18, 2011 12:26pm
The debate is interesting. I am enjoying it. 3x20 is not for me though.
  • #4,673
  • Jul 19, 2011 1:28am Jul 19, 2011 1:28am
Quoting Trendylines
The debate is interesting. I am enjoying it. 3x20 is not for me though.
Hello Trendylines,

Can you detail why you believe this exercise is not for you ?

Kindest Regards,

Cam
  • #4,674
  • Jul 19, 2011 1:46am Jul 19, 2011 1:46am
Quoting MidKnight
In your personal experience that you are describing above, you are saying that your are consistently doing 3x20 per day? If not, then how can you compare your personal experience to my query?

Also, as I said in my prior post - I know what the point of the exercise was and I'm not questioning that.
I have not commented on the thread this year, but suggest the 3x20 exercise is a much about discipline and self control; if/ when anyone can achieve this they can do this in tandem with longer term trades and enhance their equity and cover some - if not all - of the losers. I personnally changed my trading style, (losing trading style), shortly after reading this thread last August and have achieved around 1000 pips per week since, with 570% growth in my balance. I have not posted any trades since my style is not consistent with Graeme's.
  • #4,675
  • Jul 19, 2011 2:06am Jul 19, 2011 2:06am
Quoting traderray
I have not commented on the thread this year, but suggest the 3x20 exercise is a much about discipline and self control; if/ when anyone can achieve this they can do this in tandem with longer term trades and enhance their equity and cover some - if not all - of the losers. I personnally changed my trading style, (losing trading style), shortly after reading this thread last August and have achieved around 1000 pips per week since, with 570% growth in my balance. I have not posted any trades since my style is not consistent with Graeme's.
Great achievement, Ray! Can you tell us the main points of difference of your style ?

Good day

Muntu
Patience is magic
  • #4,676
  • Jul 19, 2011 3:02am Jul 19, 2011 3:02am
Quoting muntu ntu
Great achievement, Ray! Can you tell us the main points of difference of your style ?

Good day

Muntu
Thanks for the compliments - the main thing I consider as a strategy in itself is money management and the driving principles and objectives for trading; once these were in place the actual trading strategy seemed less important - I would add that whilst I was a scalper I currently have 32 positions over 12 pairs and some that are in their 4th month, but I still like to take a quick trade if I see the opportunity - which may be only about once or twice a month, and is much improved since my screen time is less frequent/intense, and previous obsessions have been eradicated. I would have liked to submit my ideas to Graeme for his comments and may yet do so, but I consider it early days and yet to be proven in the life of my trading.
  • #4,677
  • Jul 19, 2011 5:22pm Jul 19, 2011 5:22pm
Hello!
This thread running over 1 year from 9 of July 2010!
Congratulations!
Thanks Graeme and all!
  • #4,678
  • Jul 19, 2011 10:44pm Jul 19, 2011 10:44pm
Quoting Sjb944
Hi Vee,

Just a thought re your two long EUR/NZD positions: wouldn't you apply the same approach as to your short positions, for consistency's sake?

That is move to BE with the same rationale as when you did for the short positions. To my mind, and Graeme may correct me here, "freezing" positions is the natural outcome of following the market flow rather than a desire to freeze in itself. So on my logic when entering the long positions, I'd have a SL at a level that is consistent with my usual trading philosophy and thus the loss of only...
Thanks SJB. I wanted to respond earlier but wanted to see how this bidirectional trading works out for me. You are correct Freezing positions should be a natural outcome of simply following the price (i.e go long when price closes above the close of previous red candle or go short when price closes below the open of previous green candle or whatever entries/method one chooses). I have been attempting to 'freeze' my floating profits upon every major stall on H4/Daily timeframe. Unfortunately, I got two buys 'stuck' with floating loss. I think I should be ok as long as I try and use a consistent approach. Price will come back to that level and when it does, I will have a series a long positions on the way up.

I would confirmation from Graeme and others trying this approach to see if I am on the right track. I must say, my head started to spin with multiple bi-directional pairs currently going on for me at some point. I had to diversify some pairs (EJ and E/C) just to keep it simple (for now!)

Here's the latest update on my bidirectional 'journey'.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Staying in my lane...
  • #4,679
  • Jul 19, 2011 11:25pm Jul 19, 2011 11:25pm
Quoting Trendylines
The debate is interesting. I am enjoying it. 3x20 is not for me though.
It's no longer important for me too. I had 'fun' with it last year when I was focussed on M5 timeframe for entries. Since then, I have moved to H4 time and no longer find a need to wait for volatile breakouts. If your hindsight is correct, price will go up and down creating the wicks during the building of H4 candle. Where the candle closes should give a strong indication whether your probe/stack is a hit or miss ignoring the wicks on entry candle. This style is much easier on my mindset. Entries are no longer important for me. Managing Trade/position/lotsize-exposure/location-placement works much better for me personally. I no longer use price alerts on my cellphone either. Just setting a recurring alarm for 5/6 times a day @ H4 candle close is good enough to manage my journal. Simple and universal approach regardless of which time zone you live in.

Time will be a testament if this approach will help me gain freedom from my day job :-

Sincerely,

Vee
Staying in my lane...
  • #4,680
  • Jul 20, 2011 3:13am Jul 20, 2011 3:13am
Quoting netant
Hello!
This thread running over 1 year from 9 of July 2010!
Congratulations!
Thanks Graeme and all!
Oh yeah! let's celebrate the first anniversary:
"so, Millipede, God go bless you, give you long long life, give you many many birthdays again, ohhh!"
Patience is magic
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