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Pitchfork Goldmine!

  • #1,941
  • Jul 4, 2011 4:51pm Jul 4, 2011 4:51pm
There are some classic and tested trade entries out there. I was wondering what (or which) you guys and gals use.

I often use the test and re-test, and rarely find a good Lazy Z to enter with (they often zoom and never return, or only for one test). Any others or thoughts on some that I have mentioned?
  • #1,942
  • Jul 4, 2011 5:13pm Jul 4, 2011 5:13pm
Quoting TraderMeir
There are some classic and tested trade entries out there. I was wondering what (or which) you guys and gals use.

I often use the test and re-test, and rarely find a good Lazy Z to enter with (they often zoom and never return, or only for one test). Any others or thoughts on some that I have mentioned?
Would love to hear answers on this. I was wondering the same thing. What is a lazy Z?
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
  • #1,943
  • Edited 6:02pm Jul 4, 2011 5:34pm | Edited 6:02pm
Quoting Xhale12
Would love to hear answers on this. I was wondering the same thing. What is a lazy Z?
On the Lazy Z, I posted an answer some time ago here at Post 544...

http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...t=lazy&page=37

Seems like the chart disappeared or maybe I'm looking in the wrong place. Will see if I can locate it. Basically, it is a series of moves, found especially at an ML.

About the other question...

There are so many setups and entries that are profitable given the trading method, time-frame, particular blend of tools etc. Settle on a currency pair or two and observe. Back-testing is a good way to see if they (the setup and entry you are testing) have the statistical probability of success that you need for your trading MO. I think one of my favorites is the use of switchbacks.

FX4


P.S. Posts 563 and 567 have Lazy Z chart examples: http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=242133&highlight=lazy&page=38.
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,944
  • Jul 4, 2011 5:49pm Jul 4, 2011 5:49pm
Quoting TraderMeir
There are some classic and tested trade entries out there. I was wondering what (or which) you guys and gals use.

I often use the test and re-test, and rarely find a good Lazy Z to enter with (they often zoom and never return, or only for one test). Any others or thoughts on some that I have mentioned?
The test and re-test is a classic for sure. I like it in conjunction with something else to confirm...like a Fib. Don't really look for Lazy Zs, but if I happen to see one in the works, I am on red alert .

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,945
  • Jul 4, 2011 6:18pm Jul 4, 2011 6:18pm
Quoting FX4Newbies
The test and re-test is a classic for sure. I like it in conjunction with something else to confirm...like a Fib. Don't really look for Lazy Zs, but if I happen to see one in the works, I am on red alert .

FX4
Can you guys post some charts of entries you recently made and explain why you made them?
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
  • #1,946
  • Jul 4, 2011 7:04pm Jul 4, 2011 7:04pm
Quoting Xhale12
Would love to hear answers on this. I was wondering the same thing. What is a lazy Z?
The 'Lazy Z' was developed by Tim Morge out of the works of Linda Raschke, Joe DiNapoli, and Richard Dennis. It is basically a development of the breakout and false breakout traders. It has a few steps.

These are the steps, as described by Tim in one of his articles:

1. Price makes a new low for the move, breaking below a trend line or Median Line. In this move lower, breakout traders enter new short positions when price breaks below the prior low.

2. A short covering rally ensues, as the new weak short positions get washed out of the market. This rally ends as soon as all the stop loss buy orders are filled.

3. The short covering rally leaves a pseudo swing high that is above the trend line or Median Line, but near enough to the current action to be useful when attempting to hide stop loss orders.

4. Fresh sell orders enter the market and push it to new lows again. This second wave of selling confirms that there are new sellers available to push prices lower. In effect, the second low confirms that the trend is likely to continue. When a new low for the move is made, it confirms the pseudo swing high as a true swing high, and there will now be limit sell entry orders at or near that new swing high that you can use to protect any short positions you initiate.

5. Now you can enter a sell order at the re-test of the trend line or Median Line in case price approaches it from below. If filled, your stop loss order will be above the recently formed swing high.
  • #1,947
  • Jul 4, 2011 7:08pm Jul 4, 2011 7:08pm
Quoting TraderMeir
The 'Lazy Z' was developed by Tim Morge out of the works of Linda Raschke, Joe DiNapoli, and Richard Dennis. It is basically a development of the breakout and false breakout traders. It has a few steps.

These are the steps, as described by Tim in one of his articles:

1. Price makes a new low for the move, breaking below a trend line or Median Line. In this move lower, breakout traders enter new short positions when price breaks below the prior low.

2. A short covering rally ensues, as the...
Hi again,

Didn't know Joe, Linda and Richard were part of the Lazy Z development.

Thanks for that article from Tim. It does outline it in more detail for sure.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,948
  • Jul 4, 2011 7:57pm Jul 4, 2011 7:57pm
Quoting FX4Newbies
Hi again,

Didn't know Joe, Linda and Richard were part of the Lazy Z development.

Thanks for that article from Tim. It does outline it in more detail for sure.

FX4
Tim talks of the history a bit in one of his webinars
  • #1,949
  • Jul 5, 2011 1:56am Jul 5, 2011 1:56am
Just found this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...IcLv8Q&cad=rja
What is any ocean but a multitude of drops?
  • #1,950
  • Jul 5, 2011 2:39am Jul 5, 2011 2:39am
Thanks for posting that Xhale. I'm still very much a beginner when it comes to trading. I really like pitchforks, I can see with hindsight how well they describe price but getting the entry right is the thing I find hardest. Partly because I lack patience and partly because if one isn't absolutely sure exactly what one is waiting for its easy to jump too soon.

I'm spending time working with longer TF charts to slow myself down, to give myself plenty of time to think before acting - there's mastering trading and there's mastering oneself and it seems I need to do both.
  • #1,951
  • Edited 3:53am Jul 5, 2011 3:27am | Edited 3:53am
Just closed a long on Eur-Gbp. Didn't get in at the optimum entry (short green line)...saw it a bit late. So I waited for a pullback, but by the time my order hit and the spread was added...well, you see where it landed. But I thought there was room to go higher. Got about +12 pips. News on the Pound out shortly. Not in the mood to deal with too much volatility.

Do you all think we had an example of a Lazy Z here?

FX4

P.S. Let's see if the market has another cheque with my name on it .
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurgbp 7-5-11-2.gif Size: 23 KB
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,952
  • Edited 12:04pm Jul 5, 2011 3:47am | Edited 12:04pm
Quoting Bartlby
Thanks for posting that Xhale. I'm still very much a beginner when it comes to trading. I really like pitchforks, I can see with hindsight how well they describe price but getting the entry right is the thing I find hardest. Partly because I lack patience and partly because if one isn't absolutely sure exactly what one is waiting for its easy to jump too soon.

I'm spending time working with longer TF charts to slow myself down, to give myself plenty of time to think before acting - there's mastering trading and there's mastering oneself and it...
Great that you know what you need to work on Bartlby. Tim Morge's slogan...Master your tools. Master yourself. Seems like you are working on getting a handle on the right stuff.

To help work on entries, identify S/R areas on the chart, and observe how price behaves in those areas.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,953
  • Jul 5, 2011 3:51am Jul 5, 2011 3:51am
Quoting Xhale12
Can you guys post some charts of entries you recently made and explain why you made them?
Part of what you need to see cannot be shown in a static chart. So much of the decision to take the trade or not is in the evolving candles/chart as some would call it: as the candles are forming. A video or replay of PA would help. Spend some time just watching replays...like the football players do as part of their training. That should help. Shane B, who works with Tim, also suggests using that method to hone trading skills.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,954
  • Jul 5, 2011 4:38am Jul 5, 2011 4:38am
I missed a long entry on cable this morning - a retest of a LMH drawn off daily pivots. The thing was price had been bumping along the line without making any decisive moves and so in my mind I'm wondering if this line will hold - is this a failed fork? Then it tags the line and shoots up 100+ pips. Frustrating.

The other thing I find it that I've a few forks drawn on a chart and I can no longer clearly see which fork is dominant - they give me conflicting ideas about what price may be doing.

What's good in all this is that I've slowed down a bit and stopped jumping in - I've had enough losers. I've read alot of you posts FX4 and you always talk about waiting to see what price does so that's what I'm trying to do.

Still can't help feeling that I'm missing opportunities.
  • #1,955
  • Edited 12:05pm Jul 5, 2011 6:28am | Edited 12:05pm
Quoting Bartlby
I missed a long entry on cable this morning - a retest of a LMH drawn off daily pivots. The thing was price had been bumping along the line without making any decisive moves and so in my mind I'm wondering if this line will hold - is this a failed fork? Then it tags the line and shoots up 100+ pips. Frustrating.

The other thing I find it that I've a few forks drawn on a chart and I can no longer clearly see which fork is dominant - they give me conflicting ideas about what price may be doing.

What's good in all this is that I've slowed down a...
Bartlby,

I know you are using the longer TFs to slow you down, but once you see something cooking on the Daily for example, switch to a shorter TF just for entry. Don't know what other tools or indicators you use...maybe you can add a Fib retracement, Stochastic or something to help confirm the price action on the fork.

The thing was price had been bumping along the line...that was probably happening because there were lots of pending buy orders that were being triggered.

Regarding the number of forks you have on your chart...you should at least have the one describing current price action and then maybe the one that describes what price might be getting ready to do, if you are at a point where price is turning. Any fork or line that no longer has any frequency with price (seems like the line is no longer receiving touches from price) could be removed or made very obscure so as not to clutter your chart.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,956
  • Jul 5, 2011 7:09am Jul 5, 2011 7:09am
Quoting Xhale12
Just found this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...IcLv8Q&cad=rja

Yes, that was the article I got the quote from. I am not sure which of these has the larger discussion (mentioning the three traders from which the Lazy Z pattern was developed), but I believe it is there somewhere.

http://vimeo.com/search/videos/searc...rmat:thumbnail
  • #1,957
  • Jul 5, 2011 7:43am Jul 5, 2011 7:43am
Quoting FX4Newbies
Hi again,

Didn't know Joe, Linda and Richard were part of the Lazy Z development.

Thanks for that article from Tim. It does outline it in more detail for sure.

FX4
Here's an interview with DiNapoli where he mentions the wash and rinse as a directional pattern indicator not necessarily an entry technique, entries would be taken off other setups once the pattern was seen....... Tim has taken the pattern and defined an entry setup off an established median set.

fwiw.

http://www.hardrightedge.com/wizard/joe.htm
  • #1,958
  • Jul 5, 2011 8:05am Jul 5, 2011 8:05am
Quoting wallet
Here's an interview with DiNapoli where he mentions the wash and rinse as a directional pattern indicator not necessarily an entry technique, entries would be taken off other setups once the pattern was seen....... Tim has taken the pattern and defined an entry setup off an established median set.

fwiw.

http://www.hardrightedge.com/wizard/joe.htm
Thanks alot Wallet...like your avatar .

Will certainly listen to it later today. Trying to compartmentalize everything in my day so my trading gets the time and attention it deserves.

Think I will enjoy listening to the interview.

Take care and thanks so much for posting it.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,959
  • Edited 12:06pm Jul 5, 2011 8:10am | Edited 12:06pm
Quoting FX4Newbies
Just closed a long on Eur-Gbp. Didn't get in at the optimum entry (short green line)...saw it a bit late. So I waited for a pullback, but by the time my order hit and the spread was added...well, you see where it landed. But I thought there was room to go higher. Got about +12 pips. News on the Pound out shortly. Not in the mood to deal with too much volatility.

Do you all think we had an example of a Lazy Z here?

FX4

P.S. Let's see if the market has another cheque with my name on it .
Well....news hit and this puppy tanked. Was stalking it for the bounce and missed it...saw it coming but just wasn't convinced. Of course it started moving up, but we'll see. Lots looking interesting at the moment. Eur-Chf looks good for a buy at the moment (it actually started about an hour ago though), but oh, the timing of it all...that can be the challenge.

Would like to get another trade in today...want to keep my trading muscles in the business of clicking.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
  • #1,960
  • Jul 5, 2011 9:44am Jul 5, 2011 9:44am
Lots of consolidation going on...a scalping market at the moment. Eur-Chf, which I mentioned earlier is hanging...nothing credible there yet.

At some point these pairs will come to a resolution about which way they plan to go.

FX4
Trade what you see, not what you think or feel. Let the market come to you.
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