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  • #2,761
  • Sep 22, 2010 12:25pm Sep 22, 2010 12:25pm
Quoting Starvin4Pips
Yes. This is what I interpreted this exercise to be all about. That is why Graeme had Vee pick a pre-determined R:R. As we were getting ready to begin the exercise, I recall in a post that Graeme stated he intended to demonstrate that a fixed R:R is futile and will result in a long-term performance of break-even at best. I'm expecting this exercise to prove Graeme's point over the next couple of weeks, then we'll move on to an approach that does not have fixed R:R, where we'll learn through Graeme's guidance how he establishes long-term legs to...
Vee and Kevin...

Both good points of observation.... Graeme's thought process in these up coming lessons is definitely well thought through and will make a (hopefully) lasting impression upon us. We have so much to learn and unlearn and these lessons will surely help us do that...
Keep up the great work Vee!

Bruce
  • #2,762
  • Sep 22, 2010 12:25pm Sep 22, 2010 12:25pm
Quoting VEEFX
Quick update for everyone.... even though we saw a green candle close above the previous red candle on M15 timeframe, I am really based my entries on H1 (even though I am triggering them on H1). Since I am back at my desk, I chose not to close out my positions. I will wait for H1 green candle to close about the 84.47 price level on H1 timeframe. Hope this help clear up my thought process for everyone. Am I making this clear to all our readers? Please PM with questions if you feel further explanation on the trading decisions I am making.
UPDATE: 4th trade hit my SL. What would you do now? Close all BE trades for a quick profit? I don't think so. I prefer to ...

- let it run and get BE taken out
- wait for our floating profit to touch 80 pips and then do a 'close all' trade

Why? I have already 'risked' one entry. Regardless of the outcome of this stacking event, I would have to move on to the next opportunity/pair based on our mission statement. So why make a hasty decision and close all open positions at this point? Does anyone see the 'benefit' of leaving the BE trades open to let the run longer?
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 9-22-2010 10-18-59 AM.png Size: 71 KB
Staying in my lane...
  • #2,763
  • Sep 22, 2010 12:36pm Sep 22, 2010 12:36pm
Graeme & Vee,

Apologies to interrupt the flow and re-post my earlier post from yesterday. I am keen on knowing Grame, Vee and others response as well..


Hi Graeme,

Good Evening. Now that today's exercise is complete, I would like to continue one more thought on this subject, if you don't mind.


If 1:4 gives max of 4 shots at getting it right on each opportunity, then 1:100 RR should give 100 shots at getting it right

I mean obviously well before 100 attempts even a novice would know whether the given opportunity is a real opportunity or not.

In other words, this 100 shots 'ammunition' can be used on subsequent opportunities as well by a good trader, making newer opportunities literally free of cost.

Am I confusing or totally messed up? Can you shed some light?

Again, hope this is not too much of a trouble

Warm Regards,
TradeStar
Haste not to Enter AND Haste not to Exit !-TradeStar
  • #2,764
  • Sep 22, 2010 12:41pm Sep 22, 2010 12:41pm
Quoting VEEFX
UPDATE: 4th trade hit my SL. What would you do now? Close all BE trades for a quick profit?...
Hi Vee,

To me, waiting for floating profit of 80 pips doesn't make much sense, because you are anticipating market should go at least 80 just because our Trade plan says so

Its either close all now OR let the remaining stay at BE and don't even open jpy chart for next 8 to 12 hours

Regards,
TS
Haste not to Enter AND Haste not to Exit !-TradeStar
  • #2,765
  • Edited 12:53pm Sep 22, 2010 12:42pm | Edited 12:53pm
Coin toss entry possibility today. 1 hour candles

Consider eur/usd move up from open 190 pips
low 1.3250
high 1.3440
total 190
so far 12 green candles 228 pips
8 red candles 109 pips
Even only taking red candles in todays strong uptrend we could make profit .

I think this is eye opening for me at least.
going with trend makes it easier tho lol.
making green pips large and red pips small this is my goal.
  • #2,766
  • Sep 22, 2010 12:45pm Sep 22, 2010 12:45pm
Quoting TradeStar
Graeme & Vee,

Apologies to interrupt the flow and re-post my earlier post from yesterday. I am keen on knowing Grame, Vee and others response as well..


[i]Hi Graeme,

Good Evening. Now that today's exercise is complete, I would like to continue one more thought on this subject, if you don't mind.


If 1:4 gives max of 4 shots at getting it right on each opportunity, then 1:100 RR should give 100 shots at getting it right...
I am not the master here... just a student and follower of Graeme's live trading event.

my 2 cents... I think you have this inverted. You only get ONE shot at getting it right on each opportunity. Once you loose that one shot, we need to move to the next opportunity. If another market crash like 2008 occurs, you could very well get a one shot out of 100 attempts to reap the benefits like marrion would with his 4H > H1 > M15 stacking strategy. For example, if we get 4 consecutive down 4H candles, it would result in 4(4H)+16(H1)+4*16(M15) = 84 potential entries per opportunity!

Hope this helps.
Staying in my lane...
  • #2,767
  • Sep 22, 2010 12:48pm Sep 22, 2010 12:48pm
Quoting TradeStar
Hi Vee,

To me, waiting for floating profit of 80 pips doesn't make much sense, because you are anticipating market should go at least 80 just because our Trade plan says so

Its either close all now OR let the remaining stay at BE and don't even open jpy chart for next 8 to 12 hours

Regards,
TS
As mentioned in my previous post, I will be doing "let the remaining stay at BE and don't even open jpy chart for next 8 to 12 hours" between now and london open.

With that said, I need to attend to other priorities. Expect another update tonight. Thanks for your time everybody.

Enjoy the rest of your day/night.

Ciao

- Vee

EDIT: Posting my final chart for the day for future reference.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 9-22-2010 10-48-30 AM.png Size: 41 KB
Staying in my lane...
  • #2,768
  • Sep 22, 2010 12:51pm Sep 22, 2010 12:51pm
Quoting VEEFX
I am not the master here... just a student and follower of Graeme's live trading event.

my 2 cents... I think you have this inverted....
It's very possible that I misunderstood. What I remember Graeme saying was,

You have max 4 chances per opportunity ( an opportunity being an occurrence of a pair approaching 200 ema) given your 1:4 RR However, you are expected to do lot better than that.

Let us wait for the master's input

Thanks Vee

TS
Haste not to Enter AND Haste not to Exit !-TradeStar
  • #2,769
  • Sep 22, 2010 1:03pm Sep 22, 2010 1:03pm
Quoting TradeStar
Hi Vee,

To me, waiting for floating profit of 80 pips doesn't make much sense, because you are anticipating market should go at least 80 just because our Trade plan says so

Its either close all now OR let the remaining stay at BE and don't even open jpy chart for next 8 to 12 hours

Regards,
TS
Hi TS,

I agree that those choices don't make the most sense. But I think that is the point of the exercise of setting the R:R before the trade. Graeme said earlier on that we should figure R:R AFTER the trade not before. I suspect, as VEE stated, that this is probably the point of the exercise. We learn more deeply by failing than by succeeding.

I know from my experience as a trainer in a different field that when we are learning something new we are always too focused on doing the correct thing. Obviously that is what we want to learn. But we learn much more deeply the necessary lessons if we deliberately do it wrong a few times. Then we can more clearly see how to do the thing we are trying to learn. It also gives us a sense of being more in control free to act.

I think many of us have grasped this concept as you show you have. But I think VEE is correct to stick with the "mistaken" way of finishing this trade. Just my suspicion. Thanks.

Michael
  • #2,770
  • Sep 22, 2010 1:09pm Sep 22, 2010 1:09pm
Quoting VEEFX
"I don't recall the lesson on micro managing the exits".. please re-read some of his posts. He has mentioned several times what would trigger a reversal in direction resulting in closing his trades or triggering diversification. Based on his posts, I came up with this cardinal rule

If Im looking for sell then I want to see price close below the open of previous up/green candle
If I am looking to buy, then I want to see close above the open of the previous red/down candle
Vee,

Nice rule to trade by. Have you defined a time frame to hold this rule too?
Would you use the same time frame for entries and exits? Or could they be different? I'll leave you alone for a while after this one. lol
T
  • #2,771
  • Sep 22, 2010 2:07pm Sep 22, 2010 2:07pm
Good morning, all

It is 05:00 in Sydney Australia and I just woke up.

Its great to see the discussion happening as they are all very well thought of.

Please allow VEEFX to trade as he sees fit.

For this project please allow VEEFX to control however let us all be so kind to only suggest our 2cents.

I like the ideology of walking away as per tradestar. I do that all the time.

In regards to statistics and probability I will reply to you in private message, tradestar and apologies that I have missed it. Also any traders who has question but was ignored on the thread please do not take any offence but to send me the question through private messaging.

If lessons:

21-09 Respecting hindsight of higher timeframe
22-09 Pre-selecting 'nice' pairs

For the newer readers, I understand how this thread has expanded to many many pages but you will realize that overall Im just saying the same thing over and over and over again but in different angles for a clearer and faster understanding for all.

Looking forward to our next class today at 2 hours before london open.

Sincerely,

Graeme
  • #2,772
  • Sep 22, 2010 2:45pm Sep 22, 2010 2:45pm
Hello Graeme,

I just finished re-visiting all the posts related to this latest live trading event and have to say it's all amazing, I can't get enough of the explained examples you and Vee provided.

Kindest Regards,

Cam
  • #2,773
  • Sep 22, 2010 2:50pm Sep 22, 2010 2:50pm
Quoting VEEFX
As mentioned in my previous post, I will be doing "let the remaining stay at BE and don't even open jpy chart for next 8 to 12 hours" between now and london open.

With that said, I need to attend to other priorities. Expect another update tonight. Thanks for your time everybody.

Enjoy the rest of your day/night.

Ciao

- Vee

EDIT: Posting my final chart for the day for future reference.
Hi Vee

Thanks for your hard work.
Just want to say that it looks to me like there is no SL on trade 3.

Dan
  • #2,774
  • Sep 22, 2010 4:02pm Sep 22, 2010 4:02pm
Quoting tmanbone
Vee,

Nice rule to trade by. Have you defined a time frame to hold this rule too?
Would you use the same time frame for entries and exits? Or could they be different? I'll leave you alone for a while after this one. lol
These entry/exit rules (same can be said about this entire trading strategy) could be applied to ANY timeframe. It's all relative and to scale as Graeme has said a few times in this thread.
Staying in my lane...
  • #2,775
  • Sep 22, 2010 4:05pm Sep 22, 2010 4:05pm
Quoting andante9
Hi Vee

Thanks for your hard work.
Just want to say that it looks to me like there is no SL on trade 3.

Dan
Yes andante... I just noticed that before seeing this post. Thanks for keeping an eye out for me. I got lucky and none of my 3 outstanding trades were affected when I was away from my desk. I will post a new chart with a new entry position I just took.
Staying in my lane...
  • #2,776
  • Sep 22, 2010 4:14pm Sep 22, 2010 4:14pm
Quoting VEEFX
As mentioned in my previous post, I will be doing "let the remaining stay at BE and don't even open jpy chart for next 8 to 12 hours" between now and london open.

With that said, I need to attend to other priorities. Expect another update tonight. Thanks for your time everybody.

Enjoy the rest of your day/night.

Ciao

- Vee

EDIT: Posting my final chart for the day for future reference.
Good Afternoon Graeme and fellow traders,

Here's my latest action all outlined in the attached chart. I plan to catch an hour nap while I can before another exciting round of live trading session tonight. I beg for your understanding. See you all in a few hours.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 9-22-2010 2-06-14 PM.png Size: 77 KB
Staying in my lane...
  • #2,777
  • Sep 22, 2010 6:14pm Sep 22, 2010 6:14pm
Watching these 4, all close or at 200ema:

EURAUD
CADJPY
GBPJPY
USDCAD
  • #2,778
  • Sep 22, 2010 6:42pm Sep 22, 2010 6:42pm
Quoting Accumulation
Watching these 4, all close or at 200ema:

EURAUD
CADJPY
GBPJPY
USDCAD
... maybe add EURCHF (30 Pips away) and AUDCHF (45 Pips away) but, these would be more toward UK open as they are crosses of the swissy. Note both of these are also sitting right on top of 00 levels i.e. areas of convergence.
  • #2,779
  • Sep 22, 2010 6:59pm Sep 22, 2010 6:59pm
Quoting rdwatkins
... maybe add EURCHF (30 Pips away) and AUDCHF (45 Pips away) but, these would be more toward UK open as they are crosses of the swissy. Note both of these are also sitting right on top of 00 levels i.e. areas of convergence.
Yes, anything to do with the swiss franc, especially the E/C are a total waste of time outside of the London session IMHO.
  • #2,780
  • Sep 22, 2010 7:09pm Sep 22, 2010 7:09pm
I want to take this opportunity to thank all participants here. First a big high five to Graeme for his diligent, persistent efforts in teaching us, but also to thank all the participants that have put forth an A+ effort in trying and succeeding in grasping the education offered. I realize that grasping Graeme's concepts is no easy chore. I'm impressed with the effort put forth by all to grasp the information. There are great minds here. I stumbled on this thread because others in other forums are talking about it. They hold this thread in high regard. A serious thanks to Graeme. You folks needed to know this. I see a wonderful group of minds here and I'm glad to have the opportunity to study you. I went into ramble mode but will do my best to refrain from unnecessary distractive post. This needed said. Thanks again.

PS. Hang tough Vee I hold you in high regards. You're doing a fine job.
T
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