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  • #1,841
  • Sep 1, 2010 10:57am Sep 1, 2010 10:57am
Dear fellow traders,

I am a little confused on when to zoom into the 5 min timeframe for a precision entry. I am doing the 2 week exercise as well and I hope you guys can help me clarify my doubts !

Please correct me if I am wrong because this is what I have been doing and my thought process goes like this.

1. Weekly (overall trend)

2. Daily (outlook of trend progression)

3. 4hr (momentum of trend, and whether is it curerntly ranging)

4. 1hr (lookout for momentum breakouts preferrably during overlapping market hours)

5. 5min (zooming in for precision entry to join in with momentum by watching PA)

6. Watch for PA and set BE position when price seem to be moving in intended direction with momentum for quite some time. Also, watch for PA and close my order for a loss if price moves in opposite direction with momentum that can potentially grow into a large loss.

That's the process of how I choose enter with momentum in the trend for low risk entry. Am I right to do it this way?


I have another burning question.

1. Lets say that there is no obvious growing momentum yet from the 1hr timeframe (after going through the processes above)

2. PA in 5min timeframe is following in the intended direction but slowly and there is a lack of momentum in this timeframe as well.

3. Should I avoid trading for now and wait for obvious momentum to break out from the 1hr chart then move in to the 5min chart for entry,

4. Or should I enter a trade (when there is lack of momentum, or rather price is moving sideways and slowly moving in the intended direction but with low volume) even with the small, mini movements?


Another mini question which may sound weird...

Is this the right mindset discipline that I should set onto myself?

"Only enter when 1hr chart shows momentum and move to 5min to enter only when 1hr momentum says so."

"Do not jump to 5min chart without momentum from 1hr timeframe and find an entry with small momentum that may lead to fakeouts and just because you want to trade or you feel that price will continue in this direction"

I am sorry if my questions sound confusing or repetitive, if it is please tell me and I will try to rewrite my question in a clearer manner, thank you so much!
  • #1,842
  • Edited 11:08am Sep 1, 2010 10:57am | Edited 11:08am
Quoting paul1
Hello kevin and any mbtrading users just spoke with mbtrading and this method is not possible with them .
I opened an account because they seem to have good comments from there customers. I intended going live with this method.
They say due to nfa rules they are first in first out broker as you add positions they average the base of all entries on a pair if you take positions off they are taken based on your first entry .

I like the ninja trader independent platform does anyone kow of a broker thats not F.I.F.O. That i can use micro lots and ninja...
Interesting development, Paul. Yesterday I confirmed that position averaging was not taking place on my MBT demo account. Today, after reading your post, I wondered if my live account would handle this differently. Looking back at my trade history, I found two trades from June on AUDUSD that were taken one day apart. The 2nd trade was closed before the first. The P/L indicates that no averaging of the two trades took place. Thinking back, when I first opened my live account with MBT, I was concerned about the FIFO rule, but now I recall that I confirmed pretty early on that FIFO was not being enforced on my account. I just dismissed it at the time as me not understanding how the rule was to be applied and since it didn't cause me any issues, I quickly forgot about it. Bottome line is that I can go in and out of trades in any order on my live MBT account (MT4 platform) and no averaging is occurring. Don't ask me why.

Kevin
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  • #1,843
  • Sep 1, 2010 11:01am Sep 1, 2010 11:01am
It is jmo but a closer reading of Graeme's post would indicate to me that it is not, and never has been, his intention to use buy/sell positions as a hedge.
Each position is viewed and managed on it's own. It is not used as a hedge , It is possible there is some misunderstanding on this point.
I am aware this has been brought up before but as always as threads continue some issues keep being repeated.
I also acknowledge that each person is surely allowed their own points of view on this or any subject, however I would also think best to refer back to the OP's intent as to how particular facets of the method are meant to be used.


Also I have two live accounts with MBT (over a year) and while using a different method that also might have open positions in both directions it was clear that MBT could not be used in this fashion. (oh I suppose you could jump through some hoops and make it work in some fashion but why go through that.. it is not necessary)

MBT is a good broker imo however they are governed by U.S. rules so I would suggest doing some DD and settling on a non U.S. broker of your choice... There are a couple that are good (imo) to do business with, however I would recommend doing your own homework on the subject.
  • #1,844
  • Sep 1, 2010 11:40am Sep 1, 2010 11:40am
Quoting tommyd
It is jmo but a closer reading of Graeme's post would indicate to me that it is not, and never has been, his intention to use buy/sell positions as a hedge.
Each position is viewed and managed on it's own. It is not used as a hedge , It is possible there is some misunderstanding on this point.
I am aware this has been brought up before but as always as threads continue some issues keep being repeated.
I also acknowledge that each person is surely allowed their own points of view on this or any subject, however I would also think best to refer back...
I think what people are calling hedging greame uses as he said earlier you never know when price will reverse
So he places long an short as price allows gets em to break even if possible . the ones that survive determine the trend eg. longs survive eventually all shorts will be dead thus trend is up. he lets the market decide which die an which live he just gets em to b.e.


kevin, it wouldnt show up on there as you exited at same price on both positions.
If one of them would have been stopped out 50 pips away from the other you would notce. The first entry you made would be exited at the stopped out price of your second entry.
entry no1 long @ 1.500 stop @1.450
entry no2 long @ 1600 stop @ 1.550

get stopped out at 1.550
result in your log.
entry no1 1.500 exit 1.550 ,profit = 50 pips
entry no2 @ 1600 still running at 50 pip loss.

But as posters have commented eventually when you exit whole position in the end it wont matter.
Just have get used to looking at red numbers instead of green .
Which isn't new to me lol.
making green pips large and red pips small this is my goal.
  • #1,845
  • Sep 1, 2010 11:46am Sep 1, 2010 11:46am
Guys it seems that if u want to be succesful with this approach u have to learn how to trade on 5 min TF. By itself its very difficult and if u are able to make 80% calls that goes in green for 20 pips u will not need to hold positions for weeks or months because u will reach the same or maybe even better results just for taking these 20 pips.
Furthemore u will not need to manage 100 positions every day, your equity will be smoother, u can rise your capital faster and increase position size and of course its emotionally easier. So if u think u can reach 80% hit rate for 20pips (with 20 pips SL), do the math and u will not hold legs for months.
  • #1,846
  • Edited 1:12pm Sep 1, 2010 11:49am | Edited 1:12pm
Quoting paul1
kevin, it wouldnt show up on there as you exited at same price on both positions.
If one of them would have been stopped out 50 pips away from the other you would notce. The first entry you made would be exited at the stopped out price of your second entry.
entry no1 long @ 1.500 stop @1.450
entry no2 long @ 1600 stop @ 1.550

get stopped out at 1.550
result in your log.
entry no1 1.500 exit 1.550 ,profit = 50 pips
entry no2 @ 1600 still running at 50 pip loss.

But as posters have commented eventually when you exit whole position in the end it...
I haven't observed this happening, but I'll continue to watch to see if this is indeed what is taking place. Either way, like you and others have said, it probably doesn't matter much in the long run. Thanks.

Kevin
  • #1,847
  • Sep 1, 2010 11:53am Sep 1, 2010 11:53am
Quoting paul1

I think what people are calling hedging greame uses as he said earlier you never know when price will reverse
So he places long an short as price allows gets em to break even if possible . the ones that survive determine the trend eg. longs survive eventually all shorts will be dead thus trend is up. he lets the market decide which die an which live he just gets em to b.e.
.
Personally I have no doubt in my mind that this is how opposing orders are used in the millipede...
  • #1,848
  • Sep 1, 2010 1:39pm Sep 1, 2010 1:39pm
Quoting paul1
your first position would be a survivor maybe second taken out at b.e. and so on
But with this fifo rule my stop would take out the survor (first entry) leaving the one i wanted to take out.
my initial entry price would move closer for every b.e. trade. because they reaverage all my positions on same currency pair.
So 10 breaks evens for example would bring my intial price quickly to the price action thats taking my trades out at b.e.
Same deal with Interactive Brokers also. They allow you to modify the average position price as a workaround which is a quite a nightmare to deal with.
Staying in my lane...
  • #1,849
  • Sep 1, 2010 1:40pm Sep 1, 2010 1:40pm
Quoting pr0spero
I just stepped in here and I was rather shocked to discover that, of all the people "following" this thread, only a handlful have actually pointed out the blatant inconcistencies in "Graeme"'s posts, not only amongst posts he was making last winter, but even in this very thread.

There are bits of useful info , but the vast majority of it consists of resurgitated generalities of the type "follow the trend" accompanied by "after the fact" 'trades'.



You have been warned.

Regards,
P

We can always find this kinds of Dogs in forums. Purpose of their presence in forum is:

 

  1. Disturb other people
  2. Try to stop other people from learning
  3. Try not to allow good people to share their knowledge with others


These are dogs and they don't appreciate other good people's effort. They are here to bark.....

  • #1,850
  • Sep 1, 2010 2:08pm Sep 1, 2010 2:08pm
Quoting PipAdder
This isn't exactly true, or not much of a problem in any case.

I have posted just once in this thread because I don't know what to make of it or the intentions of its creator, maybe I have become too suspicious after a couple of years here.

At any rate, the situation you want can be replicated easily with a FIFO broker by simply moving the stop of your most recent position back to the price where the stop of you oldest position (that you had to close due to the FIFO rule) was (I am assuming for the sake of simplicity that the sizes are the...
I have seen and read a lot on the hedging/nedging discussion on this forum and agree on most of what is said by Hanover. Frankly, that was the first thought that ran in my mind also.

It's a loser's game to take trades on both sides of the same pair at the same time due to spreads involved. However, most (probably noobs!) use it in the wrong way i.e. to prevent taking a LOSS in order to 'feel good' or to prevent margin calls etc. You are always better off closing the position and taking the loss.

Graeme's philosophy is quite intriguing in the sense that he never recommends taking trades in both direction at the same time. One should NEVER do that (just in my opinion though!). But taking opposite direction trades to catch on early on trend directional change when you are already on a long term profitable position(s) is a very acceptable strategy to me. We all will know and experience this effect during our weekly (and continuation into monthly) assignments soon. But until I personally experience reaching that level of nirvana, I will remain cautiously optimistic.

This is an entirely fresh perspective on long term position trading which is NEVER discussed in the world of Forex. Most intraday strategies are created and marketed by market makers (i.e. DailyFx for instance) no offense intended to anyone.

p.s. I must admit, I am having trouble dealing at the extreme micro level entries i.e. 5M timeframe and sacrificing too many soldiers but at the macro level, it makes sense if we are disciplined to gain infinite yield.

p.s.s. I also think negative swaps will matter in the long run. I know Graeme thinks it is irrelevant but the beauty of this thread is, there are hard-wired rules to follow here, only techniques and a fresh perspective on how infinite yield could be accomplished in forex i.e. an asset class in our overall 'investment portfolio'. That's all there is to it !

p.s.s.s - Don't want this thread to clutter with posts on hedging so no need to reply to this post if anyone disagrees with me (I mean it in a respectfully way).
Staying in my lane...
  • #1,851
  • Sep 1, 2010 2:48pm Sep 1, 2010 2:48pm
Hey everybody,

I haven't officially handed in my assignment to Graeme, but I am following it. Just thought I'd share my experience with you guys up until now.

I chose the USDJPY pair. My hindsight said LONG. Monthly FB. I waited for the retrace, almost to last months low, then switched to lower TF.

monthly chart = I anticipate a 1000+ pip move

Here is my stats so far based on 1 min TFstarted today)

Total trades = 38
Trades @ loss or BE = 31
Trades stil open = 7
Realized Loss = 234 pips
Unrealized Profit = 328 pips
Avg realized loss/trade = 7.55 pips

All open trades @ BE

Net Pips = 94 pips

This could be the start of something huge. Will diversify in a couple of days if the trend continues upwards

Will keep u guys posted.

Happy trading!

Regards
Slazo
  • #1,852
  • Sep 1, 2010 2:54pm Sep 1, 2010 2:54pm
Quoting Slazo
Hey everybody,

I haven't officially handed in my assignment to Graeme, but I am following it. Just thought I'd share my experience with you guys up until now.

I chose the USDJPY pair. My hindsight said LONG. Monthly FB. I waited for the retrace, almost to last months low, then switched to lower TF.

monthly chart = I anticipate a 1000+ pip move

Here is my stats so far based on 1 min TFstarted today)

Total trades = 38
Trades @ loss or BE = 31
Trades stil open = 7
Realized Loss = 234 pips
Unrealized Profit = 328 pips
Avg realized loss/trade...
Why would you 'diversify' if the trend is moving in your favour? Also, why 1min?
  • #1,853
  • Sep 1, 2010 3:12pm Sep 1, 2010 3:12pm
Quoting pip_daddy
Why would you 'diversify' if the trend is moving in your favor? Also, why 1min?
Well a mini diversification just to make up for the initial draw down. Emotional peace of mind

I've been watching a couple of pairs since ive started reading this thread, and to be be honest a month ago PA was complete chaos to me, but it is getting better now. Like Graeme said earlier - PA for 5min vs 1 month is the the same, just the scale is different.

That's why i was using 1min TF. when the 5 min and 1 HR was in sync though.
And thats also the reason for the high amount of trades, but the SL was the bare minimum.

been Trading FB's.

But to be honest with you there was no specific reason for 1min TF. just wanted to get some experience with low draw down, and hopefully a few soldiers will survive.

Slazo
  • #1,854
  • Edited 6:12pm Sep 1, 2010 3:40pm | Edited 6:12pm
Quoting Slazo
Well a mini diversification just to make up for the initial draw down. Emotional peace of mind

I've been watching a couple of pairs since ive started reading this thread, and to be be honest a month ago PA was complete chaos to me, but it is getting better now. Like Graeme said earlier - PA for 5min vs 1 month is the the same, just the scale is different.

That's why i was using 1min TF. when the 5 min and 1 HR was in sync though.
And thats also the reason for the high amount of trades, but the SL was the bare minimum.

been Trading FB's.

But...
Graeme makes a very good point when he says that you cannot tell the difference between 5 min and 1 week charts. You can DEFINITELY tell the difference when you are looking at 1 min though. Just sayin.....
  • #1,855
  • Sep 1, 2010 3:53pm Sep 1, 2010 3:53pm
Quoting Slazo

But to be honest with you there was no specific reason for 1min TF. just wanted to get some experience with low draw down, and hopefully a few soldiers will survive.

Slazo
Just incase you haven't noticed, p.a. may seem awfully similar on the lower timeframes (1min/10-sec, etc), price range differs greatly. 1 tick may cover 50% of a bar high-to-low. When price range shrinks down, it becomes increasingly hard to come away with a breakeven stop or even a winning trade due to the fact that 1 tick covers a vast distance.. Using these methods, your accuracy should be lower the tighter the range. Just some food for thought.
  • #1,856
  • Sep 1, 2010 5:07pm Sep 1, 2010 5:07pm
Quoting Slazo
Hey everybody,

I haven't officially handed in my assignment to Graeme, but I am following it. Just thought I'd share my experience with you guys up until now.

I chose the USDJPY pair. My hindsight said LONG. Monthly FB. I waited for the retrace, almost to last months low, then switched to lower TF.

monthly chart = I anticipate a 1000+ pip move

Here is my stats so far based on 1 min TFstarted today)

Total trades = 38
Trades @ loss or BE = 31
Trades stil open = 7
Realized Loss = 234 pips
Unrealized Profit = 328 pips
Avg realized...
Hi Slazo,
I am similar to you apart from one thing. I missed the breakout last night. I spent 18hrs at the computer yesterday and it happened 10 mins after I went to bed!! Hoping for a retrace today. I made some very sloppy entries last night due to fatigue. My stats so far are:

25 Trades

Net loss 195pips

average loss per position -7.8

The reason I am at the computer so much is that I am recovering from a back injury. The problem is you can easily get sucked into over exposure. I must say though I'm learning a great deal from this exercise. The self discipline needed on the 5min timeframe is enormous!
Regards
Ben
  • #1,857
  • Sep 1, 2010 5:11pm Sep 1, 2010 5:11pm
Quoting leggo
I spent 18hrs at the computer yesterday and it happened 10 mins after I went to bed!!
Hi leggo,

If you are using Metatrader have you tried setting up alerts ? For the future I plan on getting a VPS, but for short term I used as SMTP server in MT4 smtp.gmail.com and on my iPone I configured pushmail linked with my gmail account. Even if I am at my computer I don't have to stare in MT all day long, I can browse or watch a film and still get instantly alerted when a price level has been hit.

Cheers,

Cam
  • #1,858
  • Sep 1, 2010 5:22pm Sep 1, 2010 5:22pm
Quoting cameron1st
Hi leggo,

If you are using Metatrader have you tried setting up alerts ? For the future I plan on getting a VPS, but for short term I used as SMTP server in MT4 smtp.gmail.com and on my iPone I configured pushmail linked with my gmail account. Even if I am at my computer I don't have to stare in MT all day long, I can browse or watch a film and still get instantly alerted when a price level has been hit.

Cheers,

Cam
Hi Cam,
Thanks I will look into that.
Regards,
Ben
  • #1,859
  • Edited 6:19pm Sep 1, 2010 6:04pm | Edited 6:19pm
Quoting cameron1st
Hi leggo,

If you are using Metatrader have you tried setting up alerts ? For the future I plan on getting a VPS, but for short term I used as SMTP server in MT4 smtp.gmail.com and on my iPone I configured pushmail linked with my gmail account. Even if I am at my computer I don't have to stare in MT all day long, I can browse or watch a film and still get instantly alerted when a price level has been hit.

Cheers,

Cam
You don't need a VPS and smtp server. You can do it all from your home computer and free email accounts or if you already have smtp email which a lot of people do. I leave my computer on all the time anyways and have all kinds of smtp email accounts. As long as the smtp email is received immediately as Graeme pointed out.

That is not to say I disagree with anything Graeme suggests. For a very small cost I think a VPS in a datacenter with reliable power and internet is a worthwhile thing to have for a trader.
  • #1,860
  • Sep 1, 2010 6:20pm Sep 1, 2010 6:20pm
Quoting randomperson
Paul...it is all a measure of viewpoint. Keep track of your positions separately and it is all the same in the end. Fifo/Lifo is nothing more than reporting. Your positions are managed by however you see fit, not the broker.
That is what I was trying to tell them.

http://i56.tinypic.com/axe0wi.gif

Done with that long. Cashed in the pips when the flying buddha appeared.
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