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Support and Resistance Trading Simplified

  • #41
  • Mar 24, 2010 10:48am Mar 24, 2010 10:48am
You know, you have just shown how little you know about PA with your example of that failed PB.

It is not a bar many people who have studied at J16 would take and furthermore, Jim does teach people to make pretty good judgment of where a PB or OB is likely to stall or reverse at.
Of course this example is after the fact but it is indeed quiet accurate.

There is certainly more information in a pin bar than the line chart, if you know how to extract it.

PPZ are price pivots points, they are not floor pivots but areas of price flips.
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Starting to see instead of just looking.
  • #42
  • Mar 24, 2010 11:51am Mar 24, 2010 11:51am
Quoting Rastaman
You know, you have just shown how little you know about PA with your example of that failed PB.
lol whatever I just picked the PB that occured at the "PPZ" but sure grade it for me tell me it was only a C trade... and no one in there right mind would have taken it.
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It is not a bar many people who have studied at J16 would take and furthermore, Jim does teach people to make pretty good judgment of where a PB or OB is likely to stall or reverse at.
Of course this example is after the fact but it is indeed quiet accurate.
see your statement here is "where is is likely to stall or reverse.." doesnt sound definitive...which makes it quite subjective... If I wanted to trade a Grade a pinbar by a huge amount of rules completely subjectively and be told after the fact it was only a B grade pin bar and wasnt worth the trade but no one can tell the difference cause its all subjective ... Ill trade candlesticks with you guys... but I like hard cut things.. price is breaking out price will break out until... notice the definative sentences.... no subjectivity here ... this is price action.. price action strips subjectivity.. it is what price is doing...
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There is certainly more information in a pin bar than the line chart, if you know how to extract it.

PPZ are price pivots points, they are not floor pivots but areas of price flips.

sure give me a circular sentence.. oh mystical one.. Ive been doing this hum somewhere around 7years now soon.... in may.. Ive seen it all come through forums lets start with this one...
"you can not see price action because you can not see the forest through all the trees"
"when you learn to see the chart with more than just you eyes youll see what the truth in price is."
"when water flows down and is blocked by a rock in a river it flows around it... you must flow with the water or price."
yeah ive heard em all
"there is information in a PB if u know how to read it."-lol k thanx

PPZ - and once again you can rub lipstick and put a dress on PIG but at then end of the day its just a fancy pig.
  • #43
  • Mar 24, 2010 11:58am Mar 24, 2010 11:58am
price must break the new failed high here to show exit and trigger the stop orders and new pending long orders in the order flow.

24 hours, 200 pips, and 1:10 risk:reward later price will have to break this high to lock in our profit.. we have pyramided in and truth of the matter is we are returning close to 1:20 R:R here if we get stopped out here..
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  • #44
  • Mar 24, 2010 11:58am Mar 24, 2010 11:58am
Guys shut up and do this argument via PM, thanks.
  • #45
  • Mar 24, 2010 12:04pm Mar 24, 2010 12:04pm
Quoting lolpie
Guys shut up and do this argument via PM, thanks.
lol actually there is good information in arguing.. when people argue their thought and opinions are shown faster and two points argue to win.. so all the facts from both sides are shown quickly and effectively.. and the others flaws are pointed out.
  • #46
  • Mar 24, 2010 12:06pm Mar 24, 2010 12:06pm
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-action.asp

.
  • #47
  • Mar 24, 2010 12:08pm Mar 24, 2010 12:08pm
Quoting nasir.khan
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/price-action.asp

.
that article has a 2 out of 5 star rating as rated by users of investopedia why link it

I wouldnt use investopedia unless I was looking to define something like contango.
  • #48
  • Mar 24, 2010 12:15pm Mar 24, 2010 12:15pm
well price continued to break rather than breaking highs weve triggered more lower orders and we are moving lower.

stop is adjusted to accumulate with the orderflow

wow 24 hours of just relentless selling..
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  • #49
  • Mar 24, 2010 2:20pm Mar 24, 2010 2:20pm
domino: " your candlesticks are a by product of price action not price action itself.. "

This statement is false.

In every individual candle on any time frame, one can clearly observe the actions of buyers and sellers in the market.

One can also observe many other important things such as whether Supply has exceeded demand or vice versa. In which case the direction of a future price move becomes highly probable.

If this is not pure price action, then I don't know what is.

In a simple line chart, what is not seen is the open/close high/low for each candle. In my opinion the most important information to define how the supply demand story of price action is playing out in front of your eyes.
  • #50
  • Mar 24, 2010 2:21pm Mar 24, 2010 2:21pm
Price is breaking out low and triggering lower orders.
stops accumulating at high along with new triggers.
continuing to sell..
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  • #51
  • Edited 2:55pm Mar 24, 2010 2:41pm | Edited 2:55pm
Quoting FX Compass
domino: " your candlesticks are a by product of price action not price action itself.. "

This statement is false.

In every individual candle on any time frame, one can clearly observe the actions of buyers and sellers in the market.
ok post a chart and clearly observe it for me... ive done it in mine.. then well discuss this..
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One can also observe many other important things such as whether Supply has exceeded demand or vice versa. In which case the direction of a future price move becomes highly probable.
notice you verbage price has been exceeded demand.. not price is exceeding demand I can not trade the past only the present.. as for a highly probable future.. I do not have a crystal ball and I can not tell you what price will do ... only what it is doing ... I can not tell you that it will continue doing it only that it is continuing to do it... Ive not yet seen anyone put a % number on a highly probable setup and quantify it.. sure its all good use the words highly probable makes it seems like something is more likely but I can assure you that you have no idea how highly probable it is.. as it is in relation to something else...

you say this PB is high probability as in reference to what? another low probability one? well ive seen low probability out perform high probability and high probability fail just as much and I can tell you that you cant determine anything in the future only what Is currently happening.


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If this is not pure price action, then I don't know what is.
look at the pictures. and explainations.. price is doing something .. what is it doing trade it. Price is at support price is breaking out higher.. price is making higher highs and higher lows.. price is continuing to breakout.. price is making higher highs and higher lows.. and understand what is happening in the order flow.. stops are piling below and triggers.. triggers are piling higher and old stops are triggering... this is price action this is the CORE of market movement.
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In a simple line chart, what is not seen is the open/close high/low for each candle. In my opinion the most important information to define how the supply demand story of price action is playing out in front of your eyes.
well I could invent some fancy names and hard to understand formulas and pricing algorythms.. but it wouldnt help anything... because price does not care about your formulas or your past supply and demand... it does not adhere to your PB's and your trading rules.. price is Driven by pure human emotion..you cant wrap that into any formula for trading or rules .. you see cold hard human emotion.. panic .. greed.. capitulation.. euphoria.. in line charts and thats all you need.
  • #52
  • Mar 24, 2010 4:03pm Mar 24, 2010 4:03pm
continuing to selloff orderflow is spreading the orders out
we continue to sell
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  • #53
  • Mar 24, 2010 7:18pm Mar 24, 2010 7:18pm
Long ago my teacher said: a genius is what is simple and what is simple is genius. Candlesticks is a huge science and why to add it to simple price actions
if it works ok without it. I see Domino is not using even trend lines. Even better.

When I looked at H1 line chart, it reflects closed prices and has deviation e.g 20 pips comparing to bar height. On M30 the swing looked higher, on M15 even higher.
Domino, how many pips break on H1 makes you think it is time to place trade?
Wonder why the author of the thread is gone, on his beginning he looked very knowledgeable and expected high professionals to participate.
  • #54
  • Mar 24, 2010 7:45pm Mar 24, 2010 7:45pm
Quoting MarketPips
Long ago my teacher said: a genius is what is simple and what is simple is genius. Candlesticks is a huge science and why to add it to simple price actions
if it works ok without it. I see Domino is not using even trend lines. Even better.
yeah the just make the price action confusing.
Quote
When I looked at H1 line chart, it reflects closed prices and has deviation e.g 20 pips comparing to bar height. On M30 the swing looked higher, on M15 even higher.
Domino, how many pips break on H1 makes you think it is time to place trade?
one pip + spread.
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Wonder why the author of the thread is gone, on his beginning he looked very knowledgeable and expected high professionals to participate.
well we could start a new one. discussing order flow and pure PA
  • #55
  • Mar 24, 2010 11:33pm Mar 24, 2010 11:33pm
This is good stuff domino...if you start a new thread make sure to link us up here!

I currently trade renko price bars (candles formed by price movement only, no timeframe) using only S/R and MA with no indis...but my style is S/R trading, not price action trading. I've been trying to learn more about PA trading as I know a lot of pros trade this way, including a number of guys that post on another site that I frequent. My grasp is basic at the moment...though it seems simple enough.

Marketpips covered one of questions already regarding what would constitute a "break". As I'm not accustomed to line charts (or timeframes for that matter) I was wondering...do you wait for a close of the line above/below the previous high/low to call it a break?

Also regarding entries...we enter on breaks of the previous high/low?

I attached an image with an example of the anatomy of a trade as I understand it...please make corrections if I got something wrong. Also, I didn't type it on the chart, but I assume we would also add to our position on each new break, ie at #2?

Many thanks for all the input everybody!

Jack
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  • #56
  • Mar 25, 2010 4:31am Mar 25, 2010 4:31am
[quote=domino;3581277]

You stated :

"notice you verbage price has been exceeded demand.. not price is exceeding demand I can not trade the past only the present.."

Please don't misquote what I said.
I will state again supply has exceeded demand.

Do you actually understand what Supply and demand are in any market ?
It is the only reason the market moves.
Anyone trader worth a pinch of salt knows this.

You also stated

"Ive not yet seen anyone put a % number on a highly probable setup and quantify it.. sure its all good use the words highly probable makes it seems like something is more likely but I can assure you that you have no idea how highly probable it is.. as it is in relation to something else..."

Let me assure you that any professional trader will tell you that high probability trades are what we seek to consistently profit in the market. Failure to do so will always result in significant losses.

You also stated

"you say this PB is high probability as in reference to what? another low probability one? well ive seen low probability out perform high probability and high probability fail just as much and I can tell you that you cant determine anything in the future only what Is currently happening."

Another misquote - I made no reference to any pinbar in my post.

Furthermore,

I totally agree with Rastaman's earlier comment :

" you have just shown how little you know about PA with your example of that failed PB."

I suggest you read each post more carefully and not misquote other members on this forum.

I also suggest you run off and learn about supply and demand, so you can properly understand why price in any market is moved by it and it alone.

If you need a good reference for it, let me know and I will gladly post one for you.
  • #57
  • Mar 25, 2010 7:30am Mar 25, 2010 7:30am
Bonjour Domino,

Very very interesting...........but in order to simplified things and because a chart example is by far better than words, could you give us a truly line chart example with entry/stoploss/trailinstop levels.

If you don't mind as well...........

Thanks for your carefull attention,

Happy trading all,

Cheers

Angel
  • #58
  • Mar 25, 2010 10:47am Mar 25, 2010 10:47am
Quoting FX Compass

Let me assure you that any professional trader will tell you that high probability trades are what we seek to consistently profit in the market. Failure to do so will always result in significant losses.
That's absolutely false.
  • #59
  • Mar 25, 2010 11:13am Mar 25, 2010 11:13am
Quoting jdwbryan
This is good stuff domino...if you start a new thread make sure to link us up here!

I currently trade renko price bars (candles formed by price movement only, no timeframe) using only S/R and MA with no indis...but my style is S/R trading, not price action trading. I've been trying to learn more about PA trading as I know a lot of pros trade this way, including a number of guys that post on another site that I frequent. My grasp is basic at the moment...though it seems simple enough.
I love renko charts and 3 bar break charts.. PA is extremely simple and extremely mechanical and easy to use... plus it simply makes lots of sense.
Quote
Marketpips covered one of questions already regarding what would constitute a "break". As I'm not accustomed to line charts (or timeframes for that matter) I was wondering...do you wait for a close of the line above/below the previous high/low to call it a break?
well when price breaks generally we are getting in just as or right as the building orders at highs lows are triggered causing the breakout and run and market imbalance.. this is the order flow in real trading shops we look for areas of imbalance ...

here is how we mock up the trades... Price is at support zone 1A -> what this identifies is simply the catagory of the support and resistance...
This lets us know a couple of things..
We identify it pre-market all S&R zones within the days trading area range or weeks range... so we know that if price is at support zone 1A... its at a support zone lol.. 1 simply means its its first encounter there whether as support or resistance and A refers to the order flow.. A simply means that within the area of this supports first touch there is only 1 spot where the orders are stacked closely to trigger an embalance... so when we look for trades where are reading the market mechanism for working.. rather than trading the market per se we are trading a rule based market because that is what it is... so when we see a support zone 2C we know the embalance will be high and we take the break on the fly and dont wait for the bar to close .. there is no more meaning in the bar closing than there is in its opening only the movement has meaning. so we want to take this break with the order flow with high embalance meaning well trigger lots of orders and price will run and form impulse bars or moves out of congestion Market Profile calls it MOM's or moves out of the middle. hope that answers it if not ill try again lol.
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Also regarding entries...we enter on breaks of the previous high/low?
yes
Quote
I attached an image with an example of the anatomy of a trade as I understand it...please make corrections if I got something wrong. Also, I didn't type it on the chart, but I assume we would also add to our position on each new break, ie at #2?

Many thanks for all the input everybody!

Jack
well we always add at everybreak because we want to help the market.. help the market move. Imagine a huge rushing herd of cattle.. do you wanna be the guy standing infront of them trying to turn them around or the guy behind them telling them to keep going... I believe you chart looks good I cant see it in this edit mode tho ON #3 yes def move stop and #4 move stop
  • #60
  • Mar 25, 2010 11:41am Mar 25, 2010 11:41am
[quote=FX Compass;3583042]
Quoting domino

You stated :

"notice you verbage price has been exceeded demand.. not price is exceeding demand I can not trade the past only the present.."

Please don't misquote what I said.
I will state again supply has exceeded demand.
ok fine im sorry to have misquoted you .. so you are saying at this moment supply is being exceeded by demand.. or price is rising but if demand is ever exceeding supply than price movement as a by product of rising demand and even or lowering supply results in embalance and price rises......[quote]have I not mentioned order flow reading of supply and demand side equilibrium movement. and have I not stated exactly why each trade moves and why price pushes how it does.. notice how I say stacking orders are in... which will push price.. which will rebalance and new orders will stack and price will push... Yes i know what supply and demand is but rather than being guruish and just giving a supply and demand moves this answer which means nothing to anyone.. I am stating why..
Quote
You also stated

"Ive not yet seen anyone put a % number...
yet you still fail to tell me what your high probability is in relation to? everything in life is relative.. I can assure you that what you are refering to is called subjective probability analysis and can also assure you statistical decision theory does not drive the market but and rule based order flow orderbook model does simply because this is how our mechanical market actually works.
Quote
You also stated

"you say this PB is high probability as in reference to what? another low probability one? well ive seen low probability out perform high probability and high probability fail just as much and I can tell you that you cant determine anything in the future only what Is currently happening."

Another misquote - I made no reference to any pinbar in my post.
it was an example im sorry to have made it seem like you trade pin bars.
Quote
Furthermore,

I totally agree with Rastaman's earlier comment :

" you have just shown how little you know about PA with your example of that failed PB."

I suggest you read each post more carefully and not misquote other members on this forum.
I also suggest you run off and learn about supply and demand, so you can properly understand why price in any market is moved by it and it alone.

If you need a good reference for it, let me know and I will gladly post one for you.
im really just gonna ignore this as I think ive proved my point enough.
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