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MB Trading Futures - Introduction

  • #5,021
  • Mar 21, 2010 1:16pm Mar 21, 2010 1:16pm
Quoting pipsalot
They told me that the trades were clearly erroneous, and said so in an e-mail.

Here's what happened, if you're interested: on Monday morning, March 15 (I'm about eight hours ahead of the US), I noticed that a trade which I did not put had been activated several hours prior to that: it was a sell on GBP/USD, and the strange thing is that it had been sold at 1.5290, even though the GBP/USD did not reach that high at least one week before that. Anyway, I closed that trade for a small profit and notified MBT about the strange trade. When I woke up...
it seem like like MBT is trying to do something funny??? i hope that MBT is not acting like a typical bucket shop,as we all have so much faith in them!
  • #5,022
  • Mar 21, 2010 1:29pm Mar 21, 2010 1:29pm
I can see mistakes or errors happening, I just can't see a reputable broker not making good. I just opened an account with them, I am sincerely thinking about nixing them! If this deal had happened to me, I would definitely close my account with them.

I'm still waiting on Justin or even IndyTrader(MB Tradings staunchest poster)to explain why this is acceptable.

MBT customers who read this should also let it be known strongly that this is not acceptable.

I wouldn't let it go, I'd keep on it and raise hell until I got reimbursed. Common sense should tell MBT reimbursing the money is better for them in the long run and even good publicity. Evidently, no common sense.

Cheers



Quoting pipsalot
They told me that the trades were clearly erroneous, and said so in an e-mail.

Here's what happened, if you're interested: on Monday morning, March 15 (I'm about eight hours ahead of the US), I noticed that a trade which I did not put had been activated several hours prior to that: it was a sell on GBP/USD, and the strange thing is that it had been sold at 1.5290, even though the GBP/USD did not reach that high at least one week before that. Anyway, I closed that trade for a small profit and notified MBT about the strange trade. When I woke up...
  • #5,023
  • Mar 21, 2010 11:58pm Mar 21, 2010 11:58pm
Quoting shrike
Justin, can you indeed confirm that MB sometimes executes orders that the client never submitted and that there is nothing that can be done about it, not even compensation for losses incurred by said orders?
Shrike,

Of course we can’t execute a trade that was never placed by the customer. Please don’t turn into one of “those” guys. We’ve never done that and never will. Where would you get such an idea?
  • #5,024
  • Mar 22, 2010 12:02am Mar 22, 2010 12:02am
Quoting pipsalot
I understood that it happens very rarely, and that it had to do with the switch to daylight savings time in the US about a week ago.
Pipsalot,

Let me be clear about this topic.

On Sunday, March 14, there were several banks in our system that did not make some proper adjustments post-Daylight Savings. This caused our quotes and execution to come up without those key banks’ liquidity showing in our system. This caused some quotes to be thin and some spreads to be wide. We had some stops and some margin calls trigger around 17:35 pm EST on the 14 th because of this. Any execution that triggered outside of the rules of CEE (Clearly Erroneous Execution) were busted Sunday or Monday. In other words, if you had a stop order to buy the GBPUSD and got filled 150 pips above the market, both you (the buyer who got a bad fill) and also the seller (if it was another customer) who got a fill 150 pips better than they ever should have had their trade busted. Bottom line…all bad fills were busted. That means that the half of you that got a bad print are happy and the half of you that got a great print that shouldn’t have are bummed. However, if you got a great sell or buy price that you shouldn’t have been able to and then closed that trade, this creates a problem scenario. For example. Let’s say GBPUSD should open around the 1.4900 area. Let’s say I have an order to sell at 1.5050 (150 pips higher). Let’s say that because of the bad quotes and liquidity, someone has a buy stop at 1.4950 and that gets triggered erroneously and fills at 1.5050 against my order. So I sold to him at 1.5050 even though the market was at 1.4900, all because some big banks didn’t get their quotes up due to the time change. We can’t leave that guy buying at 1.5050, so the trade is busted under CEE. That also busts my sell at 1.5050 (I sold to him). No harm, no foul…unless…what happens if I saw the sell at 1.5050 that I got and then waited a few minutes and bought it back at 1.4920 when all of the liquidity providers came online? Now when the 1.5050 sell gets busted, I’m left long at 1.4920. What I should have done, of course, is to look at the charts and see that the price was never far from 1.4900 and called the desk about my fill at 1.5050.

Here’s the reality. When people get bad fills against them, they call to get it fixed. When they get bad fills in their favor, they don’t say a word and close the position “in the money” and try to keep the change.

We have never created imaginary positions in customer accounts. But if I got a sell at 1.5050 under those circumstances and bought back at 1.4920 a few minutes later, the 1.5050 got busted later because it was out of range, and that left me with a buy at 1.4920. That’s really my own mistake.

It is unfortunate that some of these large banks had an issue due to the time change, but it doesn’t change the fact that we have a legal obligation to make sure that fills (both sides) are in range.
  • #5,025
  • Mar 22, 2010 12:03am Mar 22, 2010 12:03am
Quoting goldsurfer
MB trading steals money from their customers in other words!

Why would they not just reimburse the error?

Oh, These things just happen! But, very rarely so it's OK!

Justin?
Goldsurfer,

Wrong. These things don’t happen at all. There is no case of a scenario where we gave a customer a bad fill or forced a position that they didn’t place.
  • #5,026
  • Mar 22, 2010 12:06am Mar 22, 2010 12:06am
Quoting goldsurfer
I can see mistakes or errors happening, I just can't see a reputable broker not making good. I just opened an account with them, I am sincerely thinking about nixing them! If this deal had happened to me, I would definitely close my account with them.

I'm still waiting on Justin or even IndyTrader(MB Tradings staunchest poster)to explain why this is acceptable.

MBT customers who read this should also let it be known strongly that this is not acceptable.

I wouldn't let it go, I'd keep on it and raise hell until I got reimbursed....
Goldsurfer,

I don’t know how you expect Indytrader to have any knowledge of this.

As I already posted, I know of no case where a customer was given a position that they didn’t place. Of course that wouldn’t make sense. Please try to get your facts together before you post something like that. I have researched all issues that arose from the time change last weekend, and none of them led to positions being created that the customer did not place. I do agree that trades that executed well outside of market quotes due to lack of liquidity got busted (on both sides). That’s it.
  • #5,027
  • Mar 22, 2010 1:00am Mar 22, 2010 1:00am
Quoting jleblang
Shrike,

Of course we can’t execute a trade that was never placed by the customer. Please don’t turn into one of “those” guys. We’ve never done that and never will. Where would you get such an idea?
Just asking..

Okay, so the position that shouldn't have been there according to the customer was because of a busted trade. That's a different story than what pipsalot told.
  • #5,028
  • Edited 2:41am Mar 22, 2010 2:10am | Edited 2:41am
Quoting jleblang
Pipsalot,...
Hi Justin,

Thanks for the clarification. You explained the issue much more clearly than the other MBT personnel I was talking to. The only thing which still looks strange to me now (if you look at my earlier message) is the third buy trade which was triggered sometime on Friday, March 19 - that whole mess should have been over by then, no? I was now told by an MBT representative that the trade was initiated earlier that week and that perhaps it did not appear in the MBT Navigator because I was using a slightly older version of MBT Navigator. Can you please confirm that this was actually the case, and that by using older versions you may not see all the trades in your account? Also, how can I keep track of new MBT releases to make sure I am always using the latest version so that this doesn't happen again?
  • #5,029
  • Mar 22, 2010 2:41am Mar 22, 2010 2:41am
Hi everyone,

Sorry for the slightly off-topic post. I'm new to forex (just a couple months into the learning phase) and FF, and actually made this account because I wanted to send Justin a private message. Unfortunately, as a Junior member I can't do that, so I hope you'll forgive this one-post hijacking.

Over the past few weeks have been coming to, and relying on, FF more and more as my most reliable source of advice and experience. I've practiced with 5 accounts so far, tanked 1 and doubled 4 thanks to all of the great information I've found here.

However, I've been having a lot of trouble deciding on which broker to use when I finally go live. It's an issue that's been on my mind for some time now, because as I see it, the best skills, systems and experience in the world can't help you if the people holding your money can't be trusted.

Over the past few days I've read many posts by Justin, and I'm extremely impressed with his ability to consistently post only helpful information in a professional manner, and yet still speak on a personal level. I feel that I've gained significantly from his posts. This, together with the many positive reviews and debunked accusations regarding MBT have led me to decide that when the time comes, they will be my first live broker.

Again, I apologize for the irrelevant post, especially since this is a personal decision and is unlikely to help anybody. I just wanted a chance to express my appreciation to Justin for taking the time to provide everyone with such informative responses. I think he's a great representative for MBT.
  • #5,030
  • Mar 22, 2010 6:43am Mar 22, 2010 6:43am
Quoting jleblang
I don’t know how you expect Indytrader to have any...


Hi Justin

Where did I say IndyTrader had knowledge of this? I pretty much said I wanted his opinion of why this was acceptable. Facts Justin!

Good news then, pipsalot posted he was wronged by MBT, he also said MBT acknowledged the error and pretty much said tough. As a new customer maybe I jumped a lil too soon. Glad you got to the bottom of it.

cheers
  • #5,031
  • Mar 22, 2010 10:44am Mar 22, 2010 10:44am
Justin,



I believe banks don't accept orders smaller than 100K, then what do you do with for example 10K orders ?

You aggregate all those small orders in house and then offset them with the banks ?




Regards.
  • #5,032
  • Mar 22, 2010 12:45pm Mar 22, 2010 12:45pm
Quoting pipsalot
Hi Justin,

Thanks for the clarification. You explained the issue much more clearly than the other MBT personnel I was talking to. The only thing which still looks strange to me now (if you look at my earlier message) is the third buy trade which was triggered sometime on Friday, March 19 - that whole mess should have been over by then, no? I was now told by an MBT representative that the trade was initiated earlier that week and that perhaps it did not appear in the MBT Navigator because I was using a slightly older version of MBT Navigator. Can...
Pipsalot,

If someone on our end told you that having an old version of the Nav would prevent you from seeing a position, please email me in private the name of the rep whom you spoke to. Nav versions just add more features, but they don’t suddenly render old versions so you can’t see positions. You should be on our newsletter list so you are informed when new Nav versions come out. If not, let me know.

Regarding this trade, can you please email me your information and the order ID in private so that I can look into the situation? (The one that you say appeared Friday). I need that to look into it (please don’t post account numbers and trade IDs here). I’m on the road today and tomorrow so my responses will be a little slower than usual but I will get it to the right people.
  • #5,033
  • Mar 22, 2010 1:15pm Mar 22, 2010 1:15pm
Quoting jleblang
Pipsalot,

If someone on our end told you that having an old version of the Nav would prevent you from seeing a position, please email me in private the name of the rep whom you spoke to. Nav versions just add more features, but they don’t suddenly render old versions so you can’t see positions. You should be on our newsletter list so you are informed when new Nav versions come out. If not, let me know.

Regarding this trade, can you please email me your information and the order ID in private so that I can look into the situation? (The one that...
Done.
  • #5,034
  • Mar 22, 2010 4:10pm Mar 22, 2010 4:10pm
C'mon, guys. You can't be serious.
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sans peur et sans reproche
  • #5,035
  • Mar 22, 2010 11:41pm Mar 22, 2010 11:41pm
Quoting ilanr
C'mon, guys. You can't be serious.
That's just erroneous data, you can edit it out or delete your history and re-download.
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  • #5,036
  • Mar 23, 2010 12:30am Mar 23, 2010 12:30am
Quoting angus
That's just erroneous data, you can edit it out or delete your history and re-download.
Thank you for the advice, Angus. However, it was more than that. When this spike happened, a short order that I had at the price of 89.9XX was triggered at 90.126. The take profit order set at 89.8XX wasn't executed, and the stop loss was executed at a later hour. So, the erroneous data caused a trade to open, but not to close properly... The weird thing is that although I can see the losing trade in the account history - there is no trace of it in the journal, so I can't even prove in any way that the trade was opened at a completely random price level...
sans peur et sans reproche
  • #5,037
  • Mar 23, 2010 2:01am Mar 23, 2010 2:01am
Quoting ilanr
C'mon, guys. You can't be serious.
I don't show that. What timeframe?
  • #5,038
  • Mar 23, 2010 9:06am Mar 23, 2010 9:06am
Quoting wannatradefx
I don't show that. What timeframe?
H1 only.
sans peur et sans reproche
  • #5,039
  • Mar 23, 2010 10:16am Mar 23, 2010 10:16am
To,jleblang
Hi, I hav downloaded navigator software but i am not at all able to understand how to use it. It is very difficult and i am not getting lot of terms there.
Is there any way where i can learn all those things. are there any videos teaching the software?
Thanks, Ash Des
  • #5,040
  • Mar 23, 2010 10:21am Mar 23, 2010 10:21am
Quoting ilanr
Thank you for the advice, Angus. However, it was more than that. When this spike happened, a short order that I had at the price of 89.9XX was triggered at 90.126. The take profit order set at 89.8XX wasn't executed, and the stop loss was executed at a later hour. So, the erroneous data caused a trade to open, but not to close properly... The weird thing is that although I can see the losing trade in the account history - there is no trace of it in the journal, so I can't even prove in any way that the trade was opened at a completely random price...
I contacted the trading desk yesterday when it happened and they said it was definitely an error, bad tick data, also it happened 1700 when they are doing maintenance and no trades are supposed to execute. Did you contact the trade desk or Mt4 support?


Cheers
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