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The Force 5min system

  • #2,221
  • Feb 4, 2009 7:46am Feb 4, 2009 7:46am
thank you
  • #2,222
  • Feb 4, 2009 10:34am Feb 4, 2009 10:34am
Mike Winfrey is coding The Force indicators for the Ninja Trader platform and eDanny has made an interesting "all in one" indicator (post #12) here :

http://www.ninjatrader-support2.com/...5290#post75290
  • #2,223
  • Edited 3:26pm Feb 4, 2009 10:53am | Edited 3:26pm
Quoting blackmovie
what 'signal bar confirmed' means in your chart? how to confirm?
A signal candle is confirmed when price exceeds it in the direction of the signal. In other words, one pip above a buy candle high or one pip below a sell candle low. See post 2145
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=2145

Quote
How your audioalert indicator's advanced signal works? As per Jedi's advanced rule, price should bounce off R/S with those three indicaors line up, does your audioalert indicator find R/S automatically

Finding and confirming support/resistance is the traders' responsibility. When Vantage and I were creating AudioAlerts we made the decision to include all candles where the three indicators (macd+stochs+emas) line up. The trader has the responsibility to decide if it is a valid signal. See post 1866
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1866

Remember AudioAlerts is only an alert to pay attention, not a signal to trade.

AudioAlerts latest version is in post 2170
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=2170
  • #2,224
  • Feb 4, 2009 11:31am Feb 4, 2009 11:31am
Quote
Confirming signal candles & Advanced Alerts


good work robdee keep on . we are testing the alerts


  • #2,225
  • Edited 10:01pm Feb 4, 2009 9:39pm | Edited 10:01pm
First day of a trend down so I used a "Medium Trend" setup.

The DT (double top) at 1.3070 had plenty of divergence above it. Half an hour into London Open the bears showed they were ready for some action with a signal candle closing below the existing LTL (lower trendline) and closing below the previous candle low. All good signs.

After the signal candle confirmed, price reached the +20 target in less than 15 minutes. This is when I smile, pips banked and stop at BE.

However with bullish interest still existing a retrace pushed up the new UTL (upper trendline). When this UTL rejected with a sell signal the shorts went much faster and further this time.

I could use my defensive play in this situation and it would do OK. However I would rather open up the throttle a bit - to suit the conditions.

Medium Trend Setup
Wider profit targets (2X Defensive)
Trade in both directions

Keep same as Defensive Setup
Always wait for signal candles to confirm
Do not open a new trade until existing trade is zero risk
Move stop to BE at +20 (ie zero risk)
After BE, trail stop 20 pips behind chart price

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: eurusd_04feb2009_mediumtrend.gif Size: 24 KB


Monday was a Medium bullish trend setup, see my post 2181
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=2181

PS To see today's trendlines and trades in full detail load this template into a new EURUSD 5min IBFX chart...
Attached File(s)
File Type: tpl robdee_04feb09.tpl   23 KB | 572 downloads
  • #2,226
  • Feb 4, 2009 10:34pm Feb 4, 2009 10:34pm

robdee
Kiaora from NZ

First day of a trend down so I used a "Medium Trend" setup.

I was waiting for the signal to confirm for the sell EUR/USD as the chart show.. but after it confirmed i lost -20 . it was bad signal, or i made a mistake ?

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5m force eurusdbad.gif Size: 41 KB
  • #2,227
  • Feb 4, 2009 11:14pm Feb 4, 2009 11:14pm
Quoting alhadi_w

robdee
Kiaora from NZ

First day of a trend down so I used a "Medium Trend" setup.

I was waiting for the signal to confirm for the sell EUR/USD as the chart show.. but after it confirmed i lost -20 . it was bad signal, or i made a mistake...
Looks like it was a good setup if the trend was down but things happen you know. You can be correct 100% =-]

BTW me personally i would have taken the order on the previous bar then were your arrow for order is shown.
Time is what keeps everything from happening "right now".
  • #2,228
  • Edited 12:22am Feb 5, 2009 12:10am | Edited 12:22am
Quoting alhadi_w
I was waiting for the signal to confirm for the sell EUR/USD as the chart show.. but after it confirmed i lost -20 . it was bad signal, or i made a mistake ?
You are right, price did go 1 pip below the signal candle confirming it. But that is not enough by itself.

A few things I notice about this setup may help you...

1. Where is the evidence of resistance, trendline, pivot, fibo?

2. Mid-Asia session often low volume, lacks follow-through on signals.

3. First candle after signal is a doji (open=close) not a good sign.

4. When you enter stochastics appears oversold, perfect time for bulls to continue.

5. Bulls were moving the market before your signal, need a lot more than just signal to win a reversal against the bulls.

6. You are not using IBFX for charting. The IBFX data feed has more reliable signals. IBFX did not confirm that signal you have in question.
  • #2,229
  • Feb 5, 2009 12:17am Feb 5, 2009 12:17am
Dv84
Member

you are right
  • #2,230
  • Feb 5, 2009 12:22am Feb 5, 2009 12:22am
Quote
[left]
Originally Posted by robdee

[color=black][font=Verdana]You are right, price did go 1 pip below the signal candle confirming it. But that is not enough by itself.

A few things I notice about this setup may help you...

1. Where is the evidence of resistance, trendline, pivot, fibo?

2. Mid-Asia...

Your are right also

  • #2,231
  • Feb 5, 2009 12:33am Feb 5, 2009 12:33am
Yes robdee

most of signals today witch i think was confirmed by the strategy was less than +7 only one was +13 for EUR/USD & some what i have still with (-) such as GBP/USD/ & EUR/USD. the strategy was Built upon +20

Thx
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: 5m force gbpusddbad.gif Size: 45 KB
  • #2,232
  • Feb 5, 2009 3:59am Feb 5, 2009 3:59am
Robdee,

first of all, thanks for all of your help and insight in this thread and the chatroom.

a question: you mention that you enter a trade once the candle retraces 2 pips inside the signal candle. one thing i've noticed lately with a lot of big moves is: there's confirmation (the entry candles exceeds the signal candle by at least 1 pip), but the candle never retraces sufficiently to execute my pending order (often misses by just 1 pip).

to illustrate: if a signal candle's high is 1.2821 (this means that 2 pips inside on a buy signal is 1.2819). so i set my pending buy order at 1.2819. the next candle reaches 1.2822 (confirmation) and even drops to 1.2818 (and dancing around there several times), but due to the 2 pip spread, it will not trigger the trade (not until 1.2817 including the spread).

do you set your pending order so that it actually triggers at 1.2819? or as in the above example, would your order actually execute at 1.2817?

thanks, Discipulo
  • #2,233
  • Feb 5, 2009 1:10pm Feb 5, 2009 1:10pm
Quoting FX_Discipulo
...the candle never retraces sufficiently to execute my pending order (often misses by just 1 pip)...
Discipulo, A good clear illustration of how easy it is to miss a 'perfect' entry by just one pip. The cost of an opportunity lost appears too much.

In my current setup I would have done exactly as you describe on that buy and I also would have missed that entry for the same reasons. I have changed my sell entries to only 1 pip above the sell candle low. I still use 2 pips for buys, which becomes 4 pips when spread is considered.

The small differences between data feeds (a few pips only) may be enough for you to require different entry criteria from me.

The question is, is it better to wait for a retrace or is it better to enter immediately when a candle confirms ? If my broker was consistently missing those entries I would move my buy orders up to where they will fill. If necessary I would even use buy stops or sell stops to catch the move, this has not been necessary for me.

I understand that for some traders this discussion over a few pips difference on entry may seem trivial. Let me explain. I have very specific selection criteria for the trades that I call 'mine'. One of the criteria that has served me well is waiting for price to retrace a little after signal candle confirmation.
  • #2,234
  • Feb 5, 2009 3:18pm Feb 5, 2009 3:18pm
Quoting robdee
Discipulo, A good clear illustration of how easy it is to miss a 'perfect' entry by just one pip. The cost of an opportunity lost appears too much.

In my current setup I would have done exactly as you describe on that buy and I also would have missed that entry for the same reasons. I have changed my sell entries to only 1 pip above the sell candle low. I still use 2 pips for buys, which becomes 4 pips when spread is considered.

The small differences between data feeds (a few pips only) may be enough for you to require different...
Thanks Robdee.

Yesterday alone, I missed at least three nice trades due to waiting for that 1 extra pip.

I have learned the value of retracement. In first learning the force, as soon as the signal candle closed, I would jump in. Those 'few extra pips' often mean the difference between a winning or a losing trade. And clearly an extra few pips in each trade adds up at the end of the day.

I've done some experimenting (at times by accident) and what I've discovered is ... use the force ... and use it the way FJ and other veterans like yourself and DV84 suggest. Those suggestions, (ie-waiting for the confirmation (one pip above or below), the retracement, money management and trailing stop loss) are each critical components. Miss any one, and it truthfully isn't as much a matter of success or more success ... but a matter of success or failure.

I'm learning an immense amount ... stil making mistakes, but persevering.

Thanks again, Discipulo
  • #2,235
  • Feb 5, 2009 3:36pm Feb 5, 2009 3:36pm
I'd like to give this strategy a try and have noticed a few differents posts with different templates to download for the "Force" system. Which one is currently being used or considered to be "the one." Same for the indicators.

I can find the post if someone would kindly refer me to the number.

Lastly, I'd like to post a chart and don't know how to do that. Does anyone have a second to e-mail me or PM me with instructions on how to do this?

Thanks,
Scott
  • #2,236
  • Feb 5, 2009 5:50pm Feb 5, 2009 5:50pm
Quoting slc12312
I'd like to give this strategy a try... I can find the post if someone would kindly refer me to the number.
Hi Scott welcome to The Force.

Post #1 is the standard reference. That is the place to start.

You do not 'need' a template or any of the download indicators to get started. MT4 includes MACD, Stochastics, and EMAs. Just set them up the way it is specified in Post #1. The template in that post contains an error - the EMAs are not setup quite right.

In my opinion all the other stuff can be quite a distraction until you have some solid experience using the basic three indicators.

Post 1656 has a PDF with all three levels of The Force, basic, advanced, and expert.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=1656

Quote
I'd like to post a chart and don't know how to do that.

Right-click your MT4 chart. Select 'Save As Picture' this creates a GIF file.

When posting to FF use the Attachments button, a new window opens allowing you to upload the GIF directly from your PC.
  • #2,237
  • Feb 5, 2009 7:52pm Feb 5, 2009 7:52pm
Does anyone out there use this strategy with AccuCharts? I son't know how to attach the EMA's to the open and close of a candle. I asked FXsol and all they did was to refer me to the tutorial.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
  • #2,238
  • Feb 6, 2009 12:33am Feb 6, 2009 12:33am
Quoting slc12312
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
I suggest using an IBFX demo account for charting. Then place trades on whatever platform you need to.

How to set it all up is here in post 2078
http://www.forexfactory.com/showpost...postcount=2078
  • #2,239
  • Feb 6, 2009 1:56am Feb 6, 2009 1:56am
Quoting slc12312
Does anyone out there use this strategy with AccuCharts? I son't know how to attach the EMA's to the open and close of a candle. I asked FXsol and all they did was to refer me to the tutorial.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Here is a picture of the options MT4 will give you when setting the ema. If you do not have the option "Apply to" on your platform, then you will not be able to set the emas correctly. Best solution is to do as Robdee suggests, and download the IBFX MT4 for charting, and just place orders on your own platform.
Attached Image
  • #2,240
  • Edited 11:26am Feb 6, 2009 10:52am | Edited 11:26am
Thanks a million for your input. The reason why I was trying to adapt this system for use on AccuCharts is that IBFX is blocked at my work site (it is classified as PORN if you can believe that) anyway, that is the main reason. I can't very well call up and ask them to unblock it so that I can demo a forex system while at work . . . if you know what I mean.

I have EMA on the charts I use, just can't figure out how to change the open/close readings

Thanks,
Scott

Robdee . . . I tried that post where you linked the downloads for IBFX and IT WORKED!! You don't know how many times I have tried to get around the block. Now for the fun part, trying to get the system down. Thanks again.
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