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Ichimoku Kinko Hyo

  • #41
  • Oct 8, 2007 8:51am Oct 8, 2007 8:51am
After carefully studying the behaviour of the Chikou Span, I came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly), that it is drawn based on the current price and one cannot draw a horizontal line where it stopped abruptly and retraced. (My idea was to build an indicator that could draw that horizontal line and draw a next one when the present direction changes again with up to 4 horizontal lines so that we can see where the resistance/support levels will be forming in future)

Much to my embarrassment, I realised that my enthusiasm exceeded my understanding of the Chikou Span.

So, other than the fact that it can show you when the direction changes and therefore an entry, I cannot see what other benefit it has and for THAT I need you to help me understand it better, plse.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes.
Hercs
  • #42
  • Oct 8, 2007 9:00am Oct 8, 2007 9:00am
Alright, I'm off to work now... I'm taking the AUD/NZD short @ 1.1740 with a S/L of 1.1780(Kijun-Sen). Hercs, I will get back to you when I get a chance, bud

Best of luck,

Kevin
  • #43
  • Oct 8, 2007 9:23am Oct 8, 2007 9:23am
Quoting kharvell
Don't take this the wrong way, but if you are going to make an EA, please take your idea elsewhere(make your own thread).

For one, I have stated from the very beginning the subjective nature of Ichimoku, and I don't want to be associated with the mediocre product I feel an EA off of Ichimoku would produce.

I have handed you a silver platter, but I see your tastes are more sophisticated. Do you fancy gold or platinum, sir?
Kharvell, i just say hello to Skyline through this thread because i knew he usually make EA ( as his nature skill ), i dont ask one in this thread to make EA, cause i understand your hope and idea from the 1st your post.

Frank, i'm very appreciate for your sharing this Ichi knowledge.
Please keep up your excellent work !http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
  • #44
  • Oct 8, 2007 11:01am Oct 8, 2007 11:01am
Kevin, I found this information about Oanda for your perusal:

Concerning Oanda's version of Ichimoku, I can confirm there is something wrong with it. You need to mentally shift kumo five or six periods to the right on all time frames in order to get the correct version.

Myself, Bob and several other members of this forum have already pointed this out to Oanda. So far they have not acknowledged there is a problem, much less dealt with it. Just so you know.

- Draco

-----------------------------------------
Hercs
  • #45
  • Oct 8, 2007 4:48pm Oct 8, 2007 4:48pm
Quoting Hercs
Kevin, I found this information about Oanda for your perusal:

Concerning Oanda's version of Ichimoku, I can confirm there is something wrong with it. You need to mentally shift kumo five or six periods to the right on all time frames in order to get the correct version.

Myself, Bob and several other members of this forum have already pointed this out to Oanda. So far they have not acknowledged there is a problem, much less dealt with it. Just so you know.

- Draco

-----------------------------------------
Hey Draco,

I'm not sure what problem you're talking about.. I've been trading ichimoku for a long time succesfully with Oanda's Ichi, and look at my chart... count 22 candles from price, they are gridded for you... The Kumo is shifted the B #, and it works fine for me. I don't see what's wrong with it.

Regards,

Kevin
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  • #46
  • Oct 8, 2007 4:50pm Oct 8, 2007 4:50pm
Quoting WS168
Kharvell, i just say hello to Skyline through this thread because i knew he usually make EA ( as his nature skill ), i dont ask one in this thread to make EA, cause i understand your hope and idea from the 1st your post.

Frank, i'm very appreciate for your sharing this Ichi knowledge.
Please keep up your excellent work !http://www.forexfactory.com/images/icons/icon14.gif
No worries, man. I'm not trying to be a mean guy, but I want to stay on topic here. I appreciate your comments
  • #47
  • Oct 8, 2007 5:27pm Oct 8, 2007 5:27pm
Quoting Hercs
Hi Kevin,

Thank you for allowing me the privilege to tell you how the "penny dropped" in the first place and secondly, what settings I am using.

To think that this incredible indicator was designed many years ago and that it is still unbelievably effective, is almost too much to comprehend. I think the reason why people do not trade it, is because of shear ignorance. However, having said that, my ignorance cleared up when I finally realised that the default settings are very, very close to the EMAs I am using on my charts.

There are 2 professors at a University in Australia who after 2 years of extensive research, published an article to say that the 25-EMA is THE most accurate EMA on the Hourly chart and as I am an Intraday Trader, I took that research serious. I have now discovered - maybe because of the charts supplier - that the 28-EMA is even better.

As an early warning EMA, I used to use the 13-ema (now 15) with great effect.

My biggest problem was the directional EMA and it took me a while to stumble across the "correct" setting for my type of trading. Needles to say it was the 55-EMA and as it is also a Fibonacci sequence, a logical choice for me.

After I read your Thread, I nearly keeled-over when I look at the default numbers again and these are from the original developers. (9/26/52)

So, I trade the 5M with a setting of 15, 28, 55.

So as to not clutter the issues, I would like to discuss the Chiko Span separately and it follows immediately below.

Looking forward to hearing your comments.

Best wishes.
Draco,

Don't get so caught up in the numbers. You can backtest all you want, but forward testing is what you should do. Demo this bad boy, and use different time frames instead of worrying about the #'s. I'm looking at your #'s, and I'm looking at mine, and I see pips on both. You can optimize past all you want, but I say just slap the bad boy on and start making pips. I don't necessarily believe in only trading one timeframe like 5-min... You have to go with the flow of the market and this is something that is learned with time.

Quoting Hercs
After carefully studying the behaviour of the Chikou Span, I came to the conclusion (rightly or wrongly), that it is drawn based on the current price and one cannot draw a horizontal line where it stopped abruptly and retraced. (My idea was to build an indicator that could draw that horizontal line and draw a next one when the present direction changes again with up to 4 horizontal lines so that we can see where the resistance/support levels will be forming in future)

Much to my embarrassment, I realised that my enthusiasm exceeded my understanding of the Chikou Span.

So, other than the fact that it can show you when the direction changes and therefore an entry, I cannot see what other benefit it has and for THAT I need you to help me understand it better, plse.

Looking forward to hearing from you.

Best wishes.

Alright, re-read my Chikou Span post carefully.

I compared the chikou span with having a chart with B # candles.

My B is 22. Imagine a chart with the past 22 candles. What the chikou span does is tell us whether the right side of the graph is greater than, equal to, or lower than the left side of the chart, thus determing the 22 candle trend. This is what we mean when we are looking to see if the Chikou Span in the past is above, on, or below price in the past.

When the Chikou Span creates pivot points, this is more important on the daily, because when the market closes at day end is more important than when 5-min closes. I mention earlier that I often trust 1-hour and 3-hour chikou span resistance pivots, too.

Hope this makes sense,

Kevin
  • #48
  • Oct 8, 2007 5:48pm Oct 8, 2007 5:48pm
Quoting WS168
Hi Sky,

You are my link library, now i can improve my knowledge with this both site / forum, specially for Ichimoku. Thanks !




By the way, may i know the best link knowledge base for MLQ program ? Maybe sometimes i would make EA for myself ( i wish to ) Then later i will compete with you or partner with you ? ( I think if you don't mind )

BTW, how your EA idea for this indicator ?

You are the good one !
Hi WS168,
you're welcome and thx for your kind words
To be able to program MQL in a proper way you have to study the basics of programming before to code in MQL language. I have 7 years experience in programming in my actual daily job and I have a degree in computer programming. So it' more than 12-13 years that i'm in this field.
If you think about it's the same thing as in forex , before you start to trade you learn the basics (pips, spread, bid, ask...and so on) then you are ready to trade.
Said that , the codersguru mql code is a invaluable resource to get in touch with mql language (you can found it in forex-tsd forum or in his site). Another good idea is to start to read (and understand) as much as possible EAs , to see how they are coded.
Also reading the articles in metaquotes site is a good option (http://articles.mql4.com/) and obviously...practice, practice and practice !

P.S: Sorry Kharvell I'll not write about EA anymore in your very good thread

Cheers,
Skyline
  • #49
  • Oct 8, 2007 6:23pm Oct 8, 2007 6:23pm
Went ahead and put in a short order for GBP/USD @ 2.0351 with a S/L @ 2.0380.

This is a bit of a riskier trade, so I might exit this quickly before the Cowboys game. 3-hour chart isn't great for short.

Will post my reasons in after my class tonight.
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  • #50
  • Oct 9, 2007 4:13am Oct 9, 2007 4:13am
Hi Kharvell,

I want try to know how can i apply this Ichimoku knowledge,
please told me when i'm wrong.

Is this the time to short AUDUSD at the red candle, just close 0.8925 ?
1. The candle close below the Senkou Span B
2. the Kumo already show bearish
3. Chinkou Span below the candle price
4. Tenkan Sen is below Kijun-Sen

Should i SL at Kijun Sen 0.8974 ( 51 pips) ?
TP is at Tenkan Sen cross up Kijun Sen at future ?

Regards
WS168
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  • #51
  • Oct 9, 2007 4:29am Oct 9, 2007 4:29am
Should take Long while candle close above Senkou Span B.
Cause :
1. Kumo already turn to bullish in future
2. Tenkan Sen above Kijun Sen in now
3. Chinkou Span above candle in the past

SL. at 0.9840 ?

How is your trading for 15M Kharvell ?

Regards

WS168
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  • #52
  • Oct 9, 2007 4:38am Oct 9, 2007 4:38am
Quoting skyline
Hi WS168,
you're welcome and thx for your kind words
To be able to program MQL in a proper way you have to study the basics of programming before to code in MQL language. I have 7 years experience in programming in my actual daily job and I have a degree in computer programming. So it' more than 12-13 years that i'm in this field.
If you think about it's the same thing as in forex , before you start to trade you learn the basics (pips, spread, bid, ask...and so on) then you are ready to trade.
Said that , the codersguru mql code is a invaluable resource to get in touch with mql language (you can found it in forex-tsd forum or in his site). Another good idea is to start to read (and understand) as much as possible EAs , to see how they are coded.
Also reading the articles in metaquotes site is a good option (http://articles.mql4.com/) and obviously...practice, practice and practice !

P.S: Sorry Kharvell I'll not write about EA anymore in your very good thread

Cheers,
Skyline
Thanks Sky

You are the man what i mean

Regards
  • #53
  • Oct 9, 2007 8:24am Oct 9, 2007 8:24am
Quoting WS168
Hi Kharvell,

I want try to know how can i apply this Ichimoku knowledge,
please told me when i'm wrong.

Is this the time to short AUDUSD at the red candle, just close 0.8925 ?
1. The candle close below the Senkou Span B
2. the Kumo already show bearish
3. Chinkou Span below the candle price
4. Tenkan Sen is below Kijun-Sen

Should i SL at Kijun Sen 0.8974 ( 51 pips) ?
TP is at Tenkan Sen cross up Kijun Sen at future ?

Regards
WS168
WS168,

You are doing a fantastic job, man. Your analysis of AUD/USD is on point. A thing that I've noticed just now that supports your position is the flat line Kumo bottom holding true as resistance. I have actually taken this short myself.

If you also look at your 3-hour chart, you'll notice the Tenkan-Sen is just coming to cross the Kijun-Sen, and the Kumo is starting to fade. Also, in 3-hour, Chikou Span is heading right for price. It would need a sharp uptrend to shed bearish implications. However, the 3-hour chart is very bullish. Aim for smaller pips. I would exit at a Kijun-Sen touch if I were you, or even switch to Tenkan-Sen, when you start to get scared of losing your pips. I usually like the Kijun-Sen though.
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  • #54
  • Oct 9, 2007 8:32am Oct 9, 2007 8:32am
Quoting WS168
Should take Long while candle close above Senkou Span B.
Cause :
1. Kumo already turn to bullish in future
2. Tenkan Sen above Kijun Sen in now
3. Chinkou Span above candle in the past

SL. at 0.9840 ?

How is your trading for 15M Kharvell ?

Regards

WS168
Alright, on this one, it's a little more sketchy. You can't take Kumo flat lines lightly. I'll mark all the ones on my chart with a flat line. If it passes all those, I would feel a bit better about it..
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  • #55
  • Oct 9, 2007 8:41am Oct 9, 2007 8:41am
Short AUD/NZD

I got stopped out at the Kijun-Sen for -7 pips. Apparently I was up 20-30 pips, but I wasn't around to catch them It's all good


Short GBP/USD

I was going to sleep and don't like to sweat while I sleep, so I set a T/P at a past Chikou Span Pivot point. It was +~64 pips. Looks like it's still good to be long, I may hop on in the 5-min chart or 15-min chart if the opportunity presents itself
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  • #56
  • Oct 9, 2007 8:44am Oct 9, 2007 8:44am
Short AUD/NZD

I got stopped out at the Kijun-Sen for -7 pips. Apparently I was up 20-30 pips, but I wasn't around to catch them It's all good


Short GBP/USD

I was going to sleep and don't like to sweat while I sleep, so I set a T/P at a past Chikou Span Pivot point in the past. It was +~64 pips. Looks like it's still good to be short, I may hop on in the 5-min chart or 15-min chart if the opportunity presents itself
  • #57
  • Oct 9, 2007 5:24pm Oct 9, 2007 5:24pm
Quoting Hercs
Kevin, I found this information about Oanda for your perusal:

Concerning Oanda's version of Ichimoku, I can confirm there is something wrong with it. You need to mentally shift kumo five or six periods to the right on all time frames in order to get the correct version.

Myself, Bob and several other members of this forum have already pointed this out to Oanda. So far they have not acknowledged there is a problem, much less dealt with it. Just so you know.

- Draco

-----------------------------------------
Thanks very much for sharing all of this infomative information on this thread. I have always been interested in this indicator but have never fully understood it.

I just wanted to say that the above quote regarding the Oanda version of Ichimoku may be a valid point. I use Xtick Professional charts and when I looked at the Oanda AUD/USD 1 Hr chart posted above, I noticed that it looked different from my chart. The kumo on the Oanda chart does appear to be shifted to the left above 6 periods. On my chart the price never broke down through the kumo. It may be worth looking into as I can imagine this would affect your trading decisions.

Thanks again for all of your hard work.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #58
  • Oct 9, 2007 5:36pm Oct 9, 2007 5:36pm
Quoting Hercs
Kevin, I found this information about Oanda for your perusal:

Concerning Oanda's version of Ichimoku, I can confirm there is something wrong with it. You need to mentally shift kumo five or six periods to the right on all time frames in order to get the correct version.

Myself, Bob and several other members of this forum have already pointed this out to Oanda. So far they have not acknowledged there is a problem, much less dealt with it. Just so you know.

- Draco

-----------------------------------------
My apologies. Regarding the post I just made above, I just realized that I attached the chart with the default parameters for Ichimoku. I have now attached the same chart with the paramenters that you use and you can see that the kumo location is still in a slightly different location than the Oanda chart (about 5 periods).
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #59
  • Oct 9, 2007 6:53pm Oct 9, 2007 6:53pm
Thanks for your enlightern Kharvell,

I think my analysis for AUDUSD seems same as your for AUDNZD, but mine without include analysis at the higher TF ( 3H or 4H ).
While i take a look at 4H TF, i can look more clear.

Any other i must improved my analysis bro ?
Hope more enlight from you

Thanks

Quoting kharvell
Alright, on this one, it's a little more sketchy. You can't take Kumo flat lines lightly. I'll mark all the ones on my chart with a flat line. If it passes all those, I would feel a bit better about it..
  • #60
  • Oct 11, 2007 1:45pm Oct 11, 2007 1:45pm
Hi Kevin.
My first post on this thread, as I've been trying to absorb all the valuable info that you and others have posted regarding this most fascinating indicator.
I've posted a chart below that I was watching earlier, and I need some clarification, if you don't mind.
As you can see, Figure 1 marks where the Tenku-Sen is crossing the Kijun-Sen, with price dropping rather rapidly towards the Kumo. Figure 2 shows how the Chikou-Span is below price, but it's the Figure 3 that I'm a bit foggy on.
Given the conditions I've described, wouldn't one expect the Kumo to offer more support to the price? Forgive me, but I'm still not clear regarding the significance (if any) of the rising Kumo, so I'd like to know how you'd have played this one? Would you have expected the poor support from the Kumo, for instance?
Any help gratefully received, mate, and many thanks for sharing your knowledge .
Cheers
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