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Volman Style (70-tick chart)

  • #341
  • Oct 29, 2022 8:03am Oct 29, 2022 8:03am
Great way to start a live funded account. Two losing trades. Stopped trading after I had two losing trades in a row and called it a day. Thursday session.
Net loss = 6.25 points.

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Friday session. Second day of live funded account.
2 winning trades and 1 losing.
Net profit = 6 points.

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  • #342
  • Oct 31, 2022 2:21am Oct 31, 2022 2:21am
Quoting Hardandsmart
Great way to start a live funded account. Two losing trades. Stopped trading after I had two losing trades in a row and called it a day. Thursday session. Net loss = 6.25 points. {image} Friday session. Second day of live funded account. 2 winning trades and 1 losing. Net profit = 6 points. {image} {image}
Sorry for the first day but you almost recovered all the losses on the second day, that's great!

I don't understand your entries, are you still using Volman scalping setups? I can't really recognized them. For example, in the first chart it seems you took a FB in a quite risky spot (50% retracement of the earlier move) and not really starting from a consolidation area.
  • #343
  • Oct 31, 2022 3:33am Oct 31, 2022 3:33am
No, as I told you earlier in the forum I am not using any of Volman's method for trading. I tried using Volman's setup on the Es mini but didn't get good results so I decide to move on. I use PATs methods for trading now. PAT uses only 1 points profit target which was too much risk for me as I was risking 3-4 points on every trade wheresas my profit was only 1 point so if I had a losing trade then I need four winning trades just to be in a little profit after cutting commissions. So after I looked at all of trades that I have taken I have seen most of going for 1:1 RRR so I decided to take only the best trades which also decreased the number of trades that I take in a session now. At the start of using the strategy I had like 4-5 trades in the first 2-3 hours but now I have like only 3-4 trades in the whole session. Also I have seen my trades going for 1.5R so in future I will also try to capitalize on these trades so I can have Risk to Reward of 1.5:1.

Happy trading
  • #344
  • Oct 31, 2022 7:28am Oct 31, 2022 7:28am
Quoting Hardandsmart
No, as I told you earlier in the forum I am not using any of Volman's method for trading. I tried using Volman's setup on the Es mini but didn't get good results so I decide to move on. I use PATs methods for trading now. PAT uses only 1 points profit target which was too much risk for me as I was risking 3-4 points on every trade wheresas my profit was only 1 point so if I had a losing trade then I need four winning trades just to be in a little profit after cutting commissions. So after I looked at all of trades that I have taken I have seen most...
I remember you told me something about the futures but I didn't understand you stopped using Volman's methods at all. Anyway, I got it now.

My morning session:

The first setup was a bottom-bounce IRB which I skipped because there was too much bearish pressure to go long and not well-defined range.

The second one was a trending BB which I took and scratched later on for a 3 pip loss.

The third one was a hybrid between a BB and an ARB which I skipped because as a range it wasn't very extended and built-up, as a block there wasn't any support to the left, following the recommendation of Hardandsmart in Post #336.
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  • #345
  • Nov 1, 2022 10:44am Nov 1, 2022 10:44am
Quoting GC-Finance
{quote} I remember you told me something about the futures but I didn't understand you stopped using Volman's methods at all. Anyway, I got it now. My morning session: The first setup was a bottom-bounce IRB which I skipped because there was too much bearish pressure to go long and not well-defined range. The second one was a trending BB which I took and scratched later on for a 3 pip loss. The third one was a hybrid between a BB and an ARB which I skipped because as a range it wasn't very extended and built-up, as a block there wasn't any support...
Those two trades were definetly of poor quality when we look at them from the big picture and about the second trade which you had to scratched for 3 pip loss is because of you didn't knew about or paid attention to the harmony principle. Volman talked in his second book "5 min price action", can't remember if he mentioned about it in his first book on forex scalping but I think he mentioned about it in one of his screenshots of charts.

The harmony principle is not a technical thing it's more of a visual thing or a thing you have to say, feel it especially in pullback reversal setups which here are BBs, DDs and SBs. Let's take your second trade, BB. If look at the downtrending move coming from the top and then BB buildup or box, it just doesn't feel right. The move is strong but when we look at the BB or horizontal pullback it looks small and not right when we compare it with the downtrending move. Now imagine next to your signal bar of the BB break, 3-5 more bars got printed if we try to visualize it, now the setup looks very good and high odds that is the harmony principle and I can think only of this that maybe went against your trade.

The problem with harmony principle which volman talks about is difficult to explain in words you have to visualize it in trades like this. Hope what I wrote you will understand, because that's the only explaination I can give.
  • #346
  • Nov 2, 2022 2:27am Nov 2, 2022 2:27am
Quoting Hardandsmart
{quote} Those two trades were definetly of poor quality when we look at them from the big picture and about the second trade which you had to scratched for 3 pip loss is because of you didn't knew about or paid attention to the harmony principle. Volman talked in his second book "5 min price action", can't remember if he mentioned about it in his first book on forex scalping but I think he mentioned about it in one of his screenshots of charts. The harmony principle is not a technical thing it's more of a visual thing or a thing you have to say,...
Hi Hardandsmart, thank you for the comments!

I know the harmony principle, I first studied Volman's second book and then moved to his first one, which became easier to understand.

About my BB, you're right, maybe it's not a very harmonious pullback, I applied a bit of aggression due to the general conditions. I will try to be more careful in the future and see if it pays back in the long run.
  • #347
  • Nov 2, 2022 11:53am Nov 2, 2022 11:53am
This morning only skips.

For the first BB there wasn't enough buillish pressure yet and the entry was a tease-like one.

The second BB was better but straight into the 00-level, I skipped.

The reversal BB at the top was against the dominant bullish pressure, without support to the left and the entry was tease-like.

The last BB had strong resistance overhead at the 00-level and wasn't well built-up.

Maybe I've been too conservative, but I had my reasons as explained above.
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  • #348
  • Nov 3, 2022 3:12am Nov 3, 2022 3:12am
Quoting GC-Finance
This morning only skips. For the first BB there wasn't enough buillish pressure yet and the entry was a tease-like one. The second BB was better but straight into the 00-level, I skipped. The reversal BB at the top was against the dominant bullish pressure, without support to the left and the entry was tease-like. The last BB had strong resistance overhead at the 00-level and wasn't well built-up. Maybe I've been too conservative, but I had my reasons as explained above. {image}
Do you have 70-75 pips on the price axis scale it should be 100 pips or 120. The reason for your skips are valid but the first BB setup I think had sufficient buildup or squeeze below the signal line. I'm not sure about it but it looks you stretch your chart vertically too much. The price axis should show 100 or 120 pips of price not 70-75 pips, I have seen on volman's chart he always has 100 pips on the price axis.

Also I think you should send this screenshot of your trades to Bob volman and ask him about the skips are valid or not especially the first BB. He will mail you back in 2-3 days.
  • #349
  • Nov 3, 2022 4:32am Nov 3, 2022 4:32am
Quoting Hardandsmart
{quote} Those two trades were definetly of poor quality when we look at them from the big picture and about the second trade which you had to scratched for 3 pip loss is because of you didn't knew about or paid attention to the harmony principle. Volman talked in his second book "5 min price action", can't remember if he mentioned about it in his first book on forex scalping but I think he mentioned about it in one of his screenshots of charts. The harmony principle is not a technical thing it's more of a visual thing or a thing you have to say,...
Excellent charts from Milan at OVO.cz with a 4 digit setting , he did a great job for Volman on MT4 the day he gifted me the Mod enjoy the charts.
Anyone who missed the product here's the link try the demo. I'm not affiliated just supportive.
https://ovo.cz/products/offline-char...t-volume-bars/
  • #350
  • Nov 3, 2022 4:36am Nov 3, 2022 4:36am
Quoting Hardandsmart
No, as I told you earlier in the forum I am not using any of Volman's method for trading. I tried using Volman's setup on the Es mini but didn't get good results so I decide to move on. I use PATs methods for trading now. PAT uses only 1 points profit target which was too much risk for me as I was risking 3-4 points on every trade wheresas my profit was only 1 point so if I had a losing trade then I need four winning trades just to be in a little profit after cutting commissions. So after I looked at all of trades that I have taken I have seen most...
Maybe post in a Pat's forum this one is Titled "Volman Style" happy pips!
  • #351
  • Nov 3, 2022 5:30am Nov 3, 2022 5:30am
Quoting GC-Finance
{quote} I remember you told me something about the futures but I didn't understand you stopped using Volman's methods at all. Anyway, I got it now. My morning session: The first setup was a bottom-bounce IRB which I skipped because there was too much bearish pressure to go long and not well-defined range. The second one was a trending BB which I took and scratched later on for a 3 pip loss. The third one was a hybrid between a BB and an ARB which I skipped because as a range it wasn't very extended and built-up, as a block there wasn't any support...
Nice charts GC, your 1st skipped trade was the 50 Magnet which you don't seem to have that important line (I can dig out an indy or 20 more if you need it) there would not have been enough room for a trade for me before the 50 got hit . In hindsight it's a typical manipulation move , the range enables you to see preset orders on a chart "SL" so above the range there are buy orders protecting the shorts, the banks force a breakout and immediately start selling into all those green candles they have a customer wants to sell at the 50 or near as they sell into the retail trading the break long and the shorts clearing their on chart SL longs, they can find some liquidity they carry on selling until the market is flooded and has to drop signalling to the onlookers "it's a trap" go short! And over the next few bars the retail jump on guess what's below the range? SL buy orders and liquidity from the trap, time to clear the shorts into the long chart orders price hardly moves doji etc and the trade is over . Always consider the view from a controlling side and not a following side and the pips will increase, happy trading. If you want a chart ask I'm on my phone currently.
  • #352
  • Nov 3, 2022 5:38am Nov 3, 2022 5:38am
Quoting GC-Finance
This morning only skips. For the first BB there wasn't enough buillish pressure yet and the entry was a tease-like one. The second BB was better but straight into the 00-level, I skipped. The reversal BB at the top was against the dominant bullish pressure, without support to the left and the entry was tease-like. The last BB had strong resistance overhead at the 00-level and wasn't well built-up. Maybe I've been too conservative, but I had my reasons as explained above. {image}
Just some advice maybe, if you are on the fence when looking you are probably right to skip as a well known trader IF says "if it's not blatantly obvious don't trade" but I digress if you always have 1:2 R:R as is required you only need 1 trade in 3 for BE and the chance of winning as you are in trades . Trading is an odds game check your charts over a period and see if you took all the trades taken and skipped with 1:2 see if you made a profit then you'll find out if your system is better than a coin toss 50/50 which I'm convinced your trading is. Happy pips
  • #353
  • Nov 3, 2022 5:51am Nov 3, 2022 5:51am
Quoting photize
{quote} Maybe post in a Pat's forum this one is Titled "Volman Style" happy pips!
Could you post some screenshots of Volman style here.
  • #354
  • Nov 3, 2022 9:04am Nov 3, 2022 9:04am
Quoting Hardandsmart
{quote} Do you have 70-75 pips on the price axis scale it should be 100 pips or 120. The reason for your skips are valid but the first BB setup I think had sufficient buildup or squeeze below the signal line. I'm not sure about it but it looks you stretch your chart vertically too much. The price axis should show 100 or 120 pips of price not 70-75 pips, I have seen on volman's chart he always has 100 pips on the price axis. Also I think you should send this screenshot of your trades to Bob volman and ask him about the skips are valid or not especially...
I always keep 60-70 pips on my vertical axis and so does Volman in the book, only in the Dropbox you see 160 pips or so. I think what really matter is sticking on the same scale, regardless which one it is.

For the skip, yes maybe I could email him.

New trades from this morning, three skips and one profitable trade.

The first BB looked pretty aggressive at that moment, far from the 20ema and the market was basically ranging before it.

The second trade was a DD, skipped due to the cluster in the pullback.

The third, an ARB, came from a very false break and there was a cluster in the pullback too.

The fourth was the BB I took, a tease-like entry I know, but at that time I just felt that there was enough tension to pop, considering the general bearish environment, also.

The last was a DD, a block in the pullback, adverse magnet of the 60-level above, 50-level to crack below, definitely a skip.
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  • #355
  • Nov 3, 2022 9:10am Nov 3, 2022 9:10am
Quoting photize
{quote} Just some advice maybe, if you are on the fence when looking you are probably right to skip as a well known trader IF says "if it's not blatantly obvious don't trade" but I digress if you always have 1:2 R:R as is required you only need 1 trade in 3 for BE and the chance of winning as you are in trades . Trading is an odds game check your charts over a period and see if you took all the trades taken and skipped with 1:2 see if you made a profit then you'll find out if your system is better than a coin toss 50/50 which I'm convinced your...
Thank you for the advice. I'm currently keeping track of both my skipped trades and the taken ones, so to check if the skipped ones could possibly be profitable in the long run. If so, I will apply more aggressive in the future, if not, I will stick to my current style. Of course, I will do the opposite for the taken ones, will see if I can reduce the losses by being more conservative or not.
  • #356
  • Nov 3, 2022 10:01am Nov 3, 2022 10:01am
Quoting Hardandsmart
{quote} Do you have 70-75 pips on the price axis scale it should be 100 pips or 120. The reason for your skips are valid but the first BB setup I think had sufficient buildup or squeeze below the signal line. I'm not sure about it but it looks you stretch your chart vertically too much. The price axis should show 100 or 120 pips of price not 70-75 pips, I have seen on volman's chart he always has 100 pips on the price axis. Also I think you should send this screenshot of your trades to Bob volman and ask him about the skips are valid or not especially...
Boom Shakalaka,
Oh just me the hight of the screen is as always a personal preference adjust to what you are comfortable with on top of that the 70 tick count also is not fixed Aghh there I said it. depending on the pair and the broker the number of ticks arriving varies and even more on demo where the brokers reduce the tick count to save bandwidth etc. Indexes on the other hand can have increased tick count and often require 100-200 ticks to have reasonably timed candles especially at pit open. The Ovo.cz team have a free helper that you can set ticks to time so it averages the tick count so a candle appears every n,seconds and sampled in N minutes it maybe useful to get an idea of say a 20 second candle then maybe turn it off.
happy trading and stay safe with happy charts
  • #357
  • Nov 3, 2022 10:25am Nov 3, 2022 10:25am
Quoting Hardandsmart
{quote} Could you post some screenshots of Volman style here.
always a twist but its all PA enjoy, notice the last range extended if your taking a trade look to where the SL is going to sit previous pockets or small ranges if they have provided a breakout or a structured move add some odds to protecting your SL dont leave your SL un protected where it will most definitely get slipped.
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  • #358
  • Nov 3, 2022 10:44am Nov 3, 2022 10:44am
I mention this again even though I have many times don't forget to keep an eye on the MARKET Session open times they are important . LD London still in play its 15.45 here
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  • #359
  • Nov 3, 2022 2:19pm Nov 3, 2022 2:19pm
Quoting photize
I mention this again even though I have many times don't forget to keep an eye on the MARKET Session open times they are important . LD London still in play its 15.45 here {image}
Do you use volman methods alone or you incorporte some other price action methods too in your trading?
  • #360
  • Edited 7:00pm Nov 3, 2022 6:49pm | Edited 7:00pm
Quoting Hardandsmart
{quote} Do you use volman methods alone or you incorporte some other price action methods too in your trading?
Momentum at entry in the right direction, can even be ticks bull Vs bear on time and sales will help prove the trade or force a scratch. Watch the time and sales as colours rush by in blocks no need to look closely.
You may get some tips from these old videos , Allan left the scene he had a website etc last time we spoke he sold one of his houses and bought a big convertible he finished a whole year with 96% win rate part time. I hope he's well
https://youtube.com/channel/UCR41OCazwnGOqXHc8VdAR0Q
It's all old but if you log in maybe a nugget inside.
https://wallstr2easystr.freeforums.n.../announcements
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