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Flying Dutchman

  • #921
  • Mar 7, 2022 8:54pm Mar 7, 2022 8:54pm
Quoting bluesteele
Indicators are useless.... That's all....
Hi Kev, reading FF we know there are 2 seperate group of traders. First group of "indicator" traders form probably 99+% of traders. The majority of FF conversation centers around the magic of "indicators".

The second much smaller group thinks outside this "indicator" mindset. There's little conversation on this aside the rare post like yours - very small group that mostly remain silent.

So when you write "indicators are useless" you have logical reason. I'm sure you know this offends the 99% "indicator" crowd. Funny thing is you were previously "indicator" trader too until... Very few on FF get it, most won't. Cheers
Know what you trade
  • #922
  • Mar 7, 2022 9:05pm Mar 7, 2022 9:05pm
Quoting BWilliam
{quote} Hi Kev, reading FF we know there are 2 seperate group of traders. First group of "indicator" traders form probably 99+% of traders. The majority of FF conversation centers around the magic of "indicators". The second much smaller group thinks outside this "indicator" mindset. There's little conversation on this aside the rare post like yours - very small group that mostly remain silent. So when you write "indicators are useless" you have logical reason. I'm sure you know this offends the 99% "indicator" crowd. Funny thing is you were previously...
Hi BW...yes you are entirely correct...The hottest threads will always be indicator based. And yes I was stuck on indicators for not only years but more than a decade I was heavily indicator based..

Now not so much..my indicators are generally just more utility based to show highs lows open, bar count etc..

I knew that would ruflle some feathers.. I only posted that as I was thinking of my great friend George and felt like stirring the pot lol.. George was right indicators are useless... Especially the way the masses use them. Few people think outside the proverbial box...


That's all
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #923
  • Mar 7, 2022 9:32pm Mar 7, 2022 9:32pm
Quoting bluesteele
Indicators are useless.... That's all....
There will be someone out there that had engineered a special indicator - most likely they will have telegram and, discord for you to contact.
  • #924
  • Mar 7, 2022 9:34pm Mar 7, 2022 9:34pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Here we have a problem. If we want to trade Futures or trade a large account, we will have to accept uncomfortable draw downs which many traders can’t cope with. When I am trading the DOW YMH22, it’s $5 a point as soon as it’s in draw down. So a standard big one minute bar will have you $120 in the red within 30 seconds. Move forward 10 minutes and if price is heading away from your entry- you are in a $2,000 paper loss faster than you can drink a cup of coffee. Market structure my arse, your’e stressing out out now how you are going to...

The indicator you are using rick, would that be what's on offer through the platform, built using good old OHLC or a Commercially available product?

My interest would be that most people are reading market structure wrong, hence the standard figure of 99% wouldn't know their Arse from their elbow. They all see the same high/low points and act accordingly. That I would think would tie in with your product showing a sudden amount of interest.
Correct reading of market structure would indicate when the herd are jumping in causing price to head in the completely opposite direction. George knew this but everyone on his thread failed to grasp that concept.
Most still haven't.
I prefer to go one step further. The Algo sets a price point for the future, then moves to a previous using a predefined structure designed to trap both buyers and sellers. It then sets a fresh price point for collection later before visiting a previous price and running through the same structure, continuously, day in, day out.
It guarantees to trap buy/sell. That's all they want. That's all they have to do.
  • #925
  • Mar 7, 2022 10:09pm Mar 7, 2022 10:09pm
Quoting RickM
{quote} Here we have a problem. If we want to trade Futures or trade a large account, we will have to accept uncomfortable draw downs which many traders can’t cope with. When I am trading the DOW YMH22, it’s $5 a point as soon as it’s in draw down. So a standard big one minute bar will have you $120 in the red within 30 seconds. Move forward 10 minutes and if price is heading away from your entry- you are in a $2,000 paper loss faster than you can drink a cup of coffee. Market structure my arse, your’e stressing out out now how you are going to...

Personally I completely disagree with your notion that one has to accept uncomfortable draw downs.. For a number of reasons...
First... I do not look at my profit or loss when in a trade. If my stop is taken out its taken out. If my stop isnt taken out and my trade is moving in my direction i look to see if i can add to my trade.

Second... Discomfort in trading is not necesarily a bad thing. Some of my best trades have been trades where I have been uncomfortable with.. Thats the nature of the beast.. No on is emotion free,, thats a myth.

Thirdly I never stress how I am going to get out of a losing position.. Im doing something terribly wring if thats what i am worried about, I have done that in the past but one learns that is a nail in ones coffin if your struggling to escape a losing trade..

One of the best things about trading is that I am in a business where i have predetermined risks. Before I enter a trade I know exactly what i can lose.. I know my spread is 1.0 pt on the Dow and 0.14 on the S&P.. I have zero commissions and I have a stop.. One should know their exact costs of doing business.. Profit.. I have no idea what the market will give me.. 10 pts 15 pts or 400 pts... I do not know.. I only know my risk.. So if my trade is down 2k ? So what if that is what fits in my MM than so be it.

I just dont understand this stressing out to get out of a position...not my style for a long time.
Now I must add a caveat...Once one starts adding to a winning position a position can get heavy and that is more when i might feel stress..But its on the opposite end of the scale.. its more about not taking all I could.. As once again risk and trading costs are predefined.. I dont have hard targets I wait for the market to reveal what it will.. hope that makes sense.

Indicators dont save asses on losing trades,,and i would never advise anyone to look at them that way. Market structure , candle formation, Price is everything..its the be all and end all. Abd the only thing that saves your ass is ones MM.

But MM is not sexy like fancy indicators and therein lies the problem of why so many fail..Its not indicators that would have saved their ass..Its their poor MM.

I trade the US30 and SP500 at NY open from $10-$50 pt. But thats totally irrelevant to anyone here. Who cares if i go into 5k drawdown or 1k or $100 that doesnt help anyone.. I know indice traders that trade 100s and 100s per point..and NO not one of these fakes over on the metal threads lol... Fairytale folks over there

Anyways im rambling now but the bottomline is people fail because of poor MM nothing else.. NO indicator will save them from that... Futures volume, tick volume none of that has any affect on making one a winning trader.. Just ugly old butterface MM is the King. But thats not a sexy subject one can sell to the masses. Their all sold on Useless indicators.

Thats all
Master your Mind,,,Master the Market
  • #926
  • Mar 7, 2022 10:22pm Mar 7, 2022 10:22pm
Quoting bluesteele
{quote} Personally I completely disagree with your notion that one has to accept uncomfortable draw downs.. For a number of reasons... First... I do not look at my profit or loss when in a trade. If my stop is taken out its taken out. If my stop isnt taken out and my trade is moving in my direction i look to see if i can add to my trade. Second... Discomfort in trading is not necesarily a bad thing. Some of my best trades have been trades where I have been uncomfortable with.. Thats the nature of the beast.. No on is emotion free,, thats a myth....

Take a bow...
  • #927
  • Mar 7, 2022 11:52pm Mar 7, 2022 11:52pm
Quoting bluesteele
Indicators are useless.... That's all....
Indicators can be useful...
  • #928
  • Mar 8, 2022 1:47am Mar 8, 2022 1:47am
Quoting bluesteele
NO indicator will save them from that... Futures volume, tick volume none of that has any affect on making one a winning trader.. Just ugly old butterface MM is the King. But thats not a sexy subject one can sell to the masses. Their all sold on Useless indicators. Thats all
So no indicators but stop losses? And how you set them with no data?
Observer effect
  • #929
  • Mar 8, 2022 2:00am Mar 8, 2022 2:00am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} So no indicators but stop losses? And how you set them with no data?
Just a guess but it's possible that Bluesteele would use highs lows open, bar count etc..
  • #930
  • Mar 8, 2022 2:17am Mar 8, 2022 2:17am
Quoting moodybot
{quote} Just a guess but it's possible that Bluesteele would use highs lows open, bar count etc..
Guess he is also using Japanese candlesticks, and it is, OMG, indicator!
Observer effect
  • #931
  • Mar 8, 2022 2:40am Mar 8, 2022 2:40am
3D
  • #932
  • Mar 8, 2022 2:53am Mar 8, 2022 2:53am
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Guess he is also using Japanese candlesticks, and it is, OMG, indicator!
I suppose once in a trade the indicator package (Japanese Candles) has no bearing on what price is going to do next. Only a straight line can do that. Had to be pink! Trade secret!!
  • #933
  • Mar 8, 2022 3:14am Mar 8, 2022 3:14am
The secret is in box. Boxes are attractive, therefore price is attracted by boxes. The color of box also plays great role. Maybe we will see 1.30600 today
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  • #934
  • Mar 8, 2022 3:31am Mar 8, 2022 3:31am
maybe vertical lines are the key....you ever think of that?
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Look Sharp/Trade Tight
  • #935
  • Mar 8, 2022 1:12pm Mar 8, 2022 1:12pm
1.30600 not today BUT good sells. Tomorrow is another story
Also AUDCHF is in interesting situation
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  • #936
  • Mar 8, 2022 8:34pm Mar 8, 2022 8:34pm
Quoting ryuryu
{quote} Guess he is also using Japanese candlesticks, and it is, OMG, indicator!
Being pedantic this way gives the impression you missed the point of Bluesteele's post. Problem also being you may discourage him from posting further.

I for one find his post helpful.
Good Trading
  • #937
  • Mar 9, 2022 4:54am Mar 9, 2022 4:54am
Will it come back today?
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  • #938
  • Mar 10, 2022 5:11am Mar 10, 2022 5:11am
Chatting to Pete today, just shooting the breeze as the saying goes.
Just discussing the usual sh1t, charts, price, itchy nuts, structure etc, and the same question pops up…. how on earth can price, on 28 pairs, demonstrate the same move at virtually the same time with the same structure on a good proportion of the 28, week in week out.

I just find it incredible with the vastness of the Forex markets, with the alleged amount of money streaming in and out that such precision and control can take place.

If it is natural, just genuine money flowing in/out, then it’s a thing of beauty following the fractal nature of Mother Earth.

On the other hand thats most likely complete bollox and the real scenario is that the markets are just a closed loop reacting to a preprogrammed Algorithm, bearing in mind the Elite that control the planet don’t do anything that’s going to lose them either money or their status.

Traders are always asking for evidence of trade explorers etc.

Lets take that one stage further, can someone screenshot a Volume indicator showing a change in value that causes a market reversal, but more importantly show the data that continues to push price into that new direction.

As I consistently see various pairs change on a dime perhaps cross referencing the other pairs with that data would also be made available.

Can anyone show that, or would it be the classic case of the standard YouTuber who makes stacks of videos, but doesn’t actually trade!!

Until then, back to lines and market structure!

M.
  • #939
  • Mar 10, 2022 6:35am Mar 10, 2022 6:35am
Quoting moodybot
Can anyone show that, or would it be the classic case of the standard YouTuber who makes stacks of videos, but doesn’t actually trade!! Until then, back to lines and market structure! M.
delta and volume vs lines (rainbow lines). Lines did invites delta for a challenge using prop firms but was turned down.
  • #940
  • Mar 10, 2022 7:01am Mar 10, 2022 7:01am
If you want lines for the meal, here you are:
Attached Image
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