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The5ers - Trading & Growth Program

  • #1,001
  • Feb 14, 2021 2:33pm Feb 14, 2021 2:33pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} I am in my chosen career without needing to give the 5ers 50% of my earnings. It's done. You on the other hand just found a set of rules that you are happy with. Best of luck in your journey to maturity and independence.
You take care and hopefully you will find yourself in some career where you will succeed. Trading is not for you.
  • #1,002
  • Feb 14, 2021 2:46pm Feb 14, 2021 2:46pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Listen, there are traders that make 1000% a month or maybe 10000% on demo contests. If they'd just tone it down to 10% a month, they would make a good living. The point is not that all traders out in the world can make 10000% or 1000% or 10% per month. There are traders in 5ers program advertised to have jumped from level 1 to 3 in 3 weeks or so. So, high flying traders do exist. That has nothing to do with the 5ers giving you your own funds (minus $25) to trade with. Your mutterings have no effect on the fact that the 5ers take 50% of your...
Now, why would I want to do that? For $875, I get a 20k account with 4% dd. So if I trade exactly the same as far as risk parameters, I only have $35 of drawdown with your $875 account. Or are you suggesting, I trade your $875 with higher leverage therefore increasing my risk of ruin. You see what you are doing is comparing a full personal account with ONLY the drawdown allowed on the 5 era account. Honestly, I'm starting to feel bad for you, the more you post the more ridiculous you sound.
  • #1,003
  • Feb 14, 2021 2:53pm Feb 14, 2021 2:53pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Now, why would I want to do that? For $875, I get a 20k account with 4% dd. So if I trade exactly the same as far as risk parameters, I only have $35 of drawdown with your $875 account. Or are you suggesting, I trade your $875 with higher leverage therefore increasing my risk of ruin. You see what you are doing is comparing a full personal account with ONLY the drawdown allowed on the 5 era account. Honestly, I'm starting to feel bad for you, the more you post the more ridiculous you sound.
You are right. My mistake. I'll make the account a 1:150 leverage account.
It'll be all the same. Do you get it? It is just a matter of juxtapositioning some numbers but I can se it is hard for you guys to comprehend.
That is why the smoke and mirror deceives you.
The 5ers have no problem understanding the concept cause they designed it and it works for them as demonstrated by you.

Actually, it will be my account, so I'll make it even better and order a 1:500 account for extra security.

The offer is still on. Direct copy and I will give you 50% back exactly as the 5ers rules.


If I could trust you that you wouldn't blow up the account, I'd fund it myself with $875 and take the exact trade by trade copy trades but unfortunately I can't trust your trading worth sh*t and neither does 5ers and that's why you are trading your own funds and still giving the 5ers 50%. Smart.
  • #1,004
  • Feb 14, 2021 2:56pm Feb 14, 2021 2:56pm
You know what? My statements are for traders with a bit of brain.
You guys have traded yours away...at least 50% of it.

Carry on and do as you will.
it does not harm me in any way if you have arrangements to give away 50% of your profits.

Enjoy your self induced slavery.
  • #1,005
  • Feb 14, 2021 2:57pm Feb 14, 2021 2:57pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} You are right. My mistake. I'll make the account a 1:150 leverage account. It'll be all the same. Actually, it will be my account, so I'll make it even better and order a 1:500 account for extra security. The offer is still on. Direct copy and I will give you 50% back exactly as the 5ers rules. If I could trust you that you wouldn't blow up the account, I'd fund it myself with $875 and take the exact trade by trade copy trades but unfortunately I can't trust your trading worth sh*t and neither does 5ers and that's why you are trading your...
You're missing the point. I do not want or need 1:150 leverage. I want to trade with 1:1 or less. That is my entire point. You need capital not leverage. Much safer way of trading. Why do you not like my proposal, I give the 5ers $875 and you trade your own $875, let's see who gets to a million faster. It'll be a fun watch for everyone.
  • #1,006
  • Feb 14, 2021 3:06pm Feb 14, 2021 3:06pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} You're missing the point. I do not want or need 1:150 leverage. I want to trade with 1:1 or less. That is my entire point. You need capital not leverage. Much safer way of trading. Why do you not like my proposal, I give the 5ers $875 and you trade your own $875, let's see who gets to a million faster. It'll be a fun watch for everyone.
If you bothered to read my comments around the time that I posted my spreadsheet, you will find out that by the time you think you have 1.28 million to trade with in your account, you have actually 50K cash in your account and that 50K, you have more than made it yourself and given 50% OVER AND OVER AGAIN TO THE 5ERS TO GET TO THAT LEVEL. sorry caps.

I am willing to bet that no one ever has reached the 1.28 million finding because no one has made 100K in their account to have handed over 50% of that to the 5ers although it is not that linear. (see my spreadsheet).

You know, dreams are good to have. 5ers says that I am correct in my assertions except I leave out the positive parts. I admit the 5ers program provides a set of rules and a huge dream to work towards achieving. So there you go. You are living the dream and so is the 5ers.

As I said, carry on and yes dream big wil getting drained 50% for being given that dream.
  • #1,007
  • Feb 14, 2021 3:26pm Feb 14, 2021 3:26pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} You're missing the point. I do not want or need 1:150 leverage. I want to trade with 1:1 or less. That is my entire point. You need capital not leverage. Much safer way of trading. Why do you not like my proposal, I give the 5ers $875 and you trade your own $875, let's see who gets to a million faster. It'll be a fun watch for everyone.
do you know what the word juxtaposition means?
That is all you are doing. 1:1 or 1:500 bla bla bla....at the end of the day, your buying power is what matters.
If you have $250 in your account with a balance of $6000 or you have $250 in your account with a balance of $275, your buying power is the same as long as the leverage adjusts up and down. Your DD limit is $250 in the first account and your DD limit is better in the 2nd account by $25 and that is $275.

A 1:100 leverage is 16.6666 greater than a 1:6 leverage. That means instead of being able to buy 30 X .01 trades in a 1:6 leverage, you can buy 500 x .01 trades in a 1:100 leveraged account.

If you think you can do better in a 1:6 account than in a 1:100 account with the same deposit in each, then good on you.


I'll tell you what the difference in those accounts mean for me tho:

In a 1:6 account, I have a max ability to spread my risk over 30 trades of .01 size.
In a 1:100 account, I have a max ability to spread my risk over 500 trades of .01 size.

Therefore, in a 1:6 account, I have to be 1.6666 more accurate with my trade choices.
That would make me try damn hard to hone in on my entry choices to get the best bang for my buck.

So, yes, it makes you try harder but trying harder does not always mean guaranteed success.

Imagine if you are already so good that your trades are so accurate as if you have a successful 1:6 leveraged account BUT, you actually have a 1:500 leveraged account. That means you are able to trade a huge forgivable 1:500 account with the same confines of a 1:6 account. Now, that is good trading with a very nice respectable or should I say enviable 1:500 buffer.

But you really want the 1:6 and actually want to aim for 1:1. Great.
That has nothing to do with giving up 50% of your profits because you on your own can choose accounts between 1:1 and 1:100 and design your own rules and confines to trade with whatever leverage and margin that you want.

However, some traders do not realize that. they need to be given rules plus confined trading space and restrictions and the fear of keeping within the means of their accounts and in exchange for those trading conditions, they are more than happy to give a 50% fee to the provider.

Over and out. I am tired of this.

Go ahead and have the last word in this matter. The floor is all yours.
  • #1,008
  • Feb 14, 2021 3:40pm Feb 14, 2021 3:40pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} do you know what the word juxtaposition means? That is all you are doing. 1:1 or 1:500 bla bla bla....at the end of the day, your buying power is what matters. If you have $250 in your account with a balance of $6000 or you have $250 in your account with a balance of $275, your buying power is the same as long as the leverage adjusts up and down. Your DD limit is $250 in the first account and your DD limit is better in the 2nd account by $25 and that is $275. A 1:100 leverage is 16.6666 greater than a 1:6 leverage. That means instead of...
Once again, if it is all equal.....I put $875 with the 5%ers, you trade your $875. Since, I am giving away 50%, I have to get to a million and you only need to get to $500K. However, every time they give me my 50%, you need to deduct that from your $875. Just in stage 2, at 80K, if I make 5%, my cut is $2K. How are you deducting that 2K from your $875. Unless you've tripled your account in the time in took me to make 5%. Your "buying power" only increases your risk of ruin.
You cannot take my challenge because it is not even close to being the same. The returns you would need to make on $875 in a personal account vs me with the 5%ers is not even close. I need 7,10,10,10,10 to get to 1.28 million. Do those returns on your $875 and you will have $1,370. This does not even take into account the $92,700 they have paid me with my 50% split during that growth.

DO YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE YET?

This is actually becoming fun, making your nonsense look so ridiculous
  • #1,009
  • Feb 14, 2021 3:58pm Feb 14, 2021 3:58pm
pipmaster is posting about this in his last post to those of you that are new to this thread or the 5%er's:

Quoting ElectricSavant
I know I have posted this before... But here is the importance of deciding whether you will "Let it Ride" or not and how compounding could work. https://youtu.be/simtwii9BVE
Traders and folks that are interested to trade with the 5%er's please do not let these heated discussions intimidate you. There are good points being made with honesty. The points of view are valid from both sides.

You can always trade both a live account and with the 5%er's at the same time. It is just extra capital. If you use EA's it is even easier. If you use FxBlue (Free CopyTrade) well then you can automate your trades to go to your 5%er's account seamlessly from your live trading account. So what is the problem? DO BOTH. Get more capital to trade. There is not a "YES" or "NO" choice....

For me all these arguments with these recent posts are a non-issue because I reside in the USA and I cannot trade live with any meaningful leverage. I am forced to be regulated with the FIFO rule and some ridiculous leverage of 20:1 or 50:1...do not really know what it is now. I am better off with the 5%er's & CTI.

Anyways unless you want to be a cheerleader for the 5%er's it seems that the contributors here take offense. I do not think that this thread is going into a direction that I want to be a part of...thus I have not posted in a while. If we can turn this thread around to be helping new traders...experienced traders....etc. Then it will serve the trading community well. Remember this is the Forex Factory NOT the 5%er's website.

ES
  • #1,010
  • Feb 14, 2021 3:59pm Feb 14, 2021 3:59pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Once again, if it is all equal.....I put $875 with the 5%ers, you trade your $875. Since, I am giving away 50%, I have to get to a million and you only need to get to $500K. However, every time they give me my 50%, you need to deduct that from your $875. Just in stage 2, at 80K, if I make 5%, my cut is $2K. How are you deducting that 2K from your $875. Unless you've tripled your account in the time in took me to make 5%. Your "buying power" only increases your risk of ruin. You cannot take my challenge because it is not even close to being...
What is ridiculous that you are trying to pit your trading abilities against my trading abilities.

No, that was not the point of all that I have written.

I could have a 100K account with 1:6 and you could have the exact account. What you are trying to say is that you are one hell of a trader and therefore, you beat me and because you are so good, you can happily give away 50% of your account.

What would work would be if you open a $875 account with 1:6 and and open another with $875 and about 1:150 and then place the exact same trades in both accounts, the outcome will be the same.

That's how you will see that both accounts will get the same result except that the 1:6 account will have to give away 50% of it's profits.

Like I said, if I knew you could trade, I would fund a $875 account with 1:50 and have you copy your 1:6 account into it but nope, just like the 5er doesn't trust you with their own money, neither do I.

The only way this could be possible is if you gave someone we both trust $875. Then I fund my account with $875 and you copy your trades into it. If you make money, I will give you 50% of your profits just the same as 5ers. If you lose, the friend that is holding your $875, will transfer the money to me.

That's the only way it'll work.
  • #1,011
  • Feb 14, 2021 4:09pm Feb 14, 2021 4:09pm
Quoting ElectricSavant
pipmaster is posting about this in his last post to those of you that are new to this thread or the 5%er's: {quote} Traders and folks that are interested to trade with the 5%er's please do not let these heated discussions intimidate you. There are good points being made with honesty. The points of view are valid from both sides. You can always trade both a live accounts and with the 5%er's at the same time. It is just extra capital. If you use EA's it is even easier. If you use FxBlue (Free CopyTrade) well then you can automate your trades to go...
I totally agree that US traders are attracted to the 5ers because it provides a loophole. Another trader already pointed that out and I totally understand and agree with the point. The said trader agreed with my point of view and explained his attraction to the 5ers due to the loophole as well.

As with helping the new traders, it is arguable who is more helpful; me or the pipmaster77's of the world. As he has mentioned numerous times, he is one hell of a trader. That puts his in a separate league than the new traders.
No offence ES but I certainly know you are not a new trader. Did the 5ers program help you?

You know, despite all this back and forth, the 5ers position remains the same: They agree and stay quiet in this because actually, it is the best position to take. I never said the 5ers are not smart. They are actually tremendously brilliant and also kind people. I never said they have lied. In fact, I used their own statements and formulas to make my spreadsheet. They are already telling everyone what they are doing but the perception is in the eye of the beholder. There had already been a lot of posts made between my spreadsheet and now and it was all forgotten and then comes pipmaster77 all cocky and proud of what a kickass trader he is with a beautiful wife and is just spinning the globe on the tip of one finger.

Like you said, this is an FF owned thread and the 5ers has the option to oust me and at the end of it all, it is a time filler and meant as entertainment.
  • #1,012
  • Feb 14, 2021 4:13pm Feb 14, 2021 4:13pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} What is ridiculous that you are trying to pit your trading abilities against my trading abilities. No, that was not the point of all that I have written. I could have a 100K account with 1:6 and you could have the exact account. What you are trying to say is that you are one hell of a trader and therefore, you beat me and because you are so good, you can happily give away 50% of your account. What would work would be if you open a $875 account with 1:6 and and open another with $875 and about 1:150 and then place the exact same trades in...
Actually, it is you claiming to be one hell of a trader, not I. You are stating you will trade with 150:1 leverage and make the same returns as I will trading a 20K account with 1:1. The bottom line is, both of our bank accounts will be -$875. No more discussion about buying power or leverage. We are both -$875. Who can turn that $875 into an asset that produces profits of $10K per month. Your personal account or me with the 5ers? if you're trading with a $100K personal account, of course that is not the same. I am talking about two traders, each willing to commit $875 to forex. Your personal account does not stand a chance against my $875 with the 5%ers, even if you are 10x the trader I am. I am not claiming to be good at all, that's why I use 1:1.
  • #1,013
  • Feb 14, 2021 4:20pm Feb 14, 2021 4:20pm
Once again, 7%, 10%, 10%, 10%, 10%, turns my $875 investment into a 1.28 million dollar asset, which, if it simply earns 2% per month earns me $12,800 per month. Your $875 becomes $1,370. I have also earned $92,700 in splits while you've earned 0, nada, zilch, zero. Which is the better way to spend the $875? I mean, c'mon, seriously, you really wish to continue this?
Even your $100,000 personal account becomes what like $150K. At 2%, you're earning $3,000. If you're making more than 2-3% monthly with consistency, you are the super trader, not I.

Now copy this across 4 prop firms.

Only way I see your logic is if you have a 1million dollar or higher personal account.
  • #1,014
  • Feb 14, 2021 4:23pm Feb 14, 2021 4:23pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Actually, it is you claiming to be one hell of a trader, not I. You are stating you will trade with 150:1 leverage and make the same returns as I will trading a 20K account with 1:1. The bottom line is, both of our bank accounts will be -$875. No more discussion about buying power or leverage. We are both -$875. Who can turn that $875 into an asset that produces profits of $10K per month. Your personal account or me with the 5ers? if you're trading with a $100K personal account, of course that is not the same. I am talking about two traders,...
Look, IDK what you are yapping about but I hate to burst your bubble. If you want to trade 1:1 leverage, that means no leverage.
So, you don't want to use any leverage in your FX trading.

I might be wrong but from discussions a long long time ago, I don't really think it is possible to trade FX with a broker without the use of leverage. It just doesn't sit right with the laws and regulations.

I could be wrong. Who knows? Not too many ppl have gone that route and reported back on their success, so you might be the first on that road.

Now back to what I am claiming. I claim that with a leverage of 1:500, I have on average made 10% per mo. profit for the past 6 month or so. It does not mean anything because I might blow it all tomorrow. It also does not mean that if I had a 1:6 leverage I would have gained some kind of a miraculous advantage in my trading. In fact, I would have been worse off because in case of errors (and believe me, I have made plenty), I would have blown up easier.
  • #1,015
  • Feb 14, 2021 4:29pm Feb 14, 2021 4:29pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Look, IDK what you are yapping about but I hate to burst your bubble. If you want to trade 1:1 leverage, that means no leverage. So, you don't want to use any leverage in your FX trading. I might be wrong but from discussions a long long time ago, I don't really think it is possible to trade FX with a broker without the use of leverage. It just doesn't sit right with the laws and regulations. I could be wrong. Who knows? Not too many ppl have gone that route and reported back on their success, so you might be the first on that road. Now...
If you're using 500:1 leverage, which you claim you're only using 15:1 of it, a simple 80 pip move against you puts you in 12% DD. You now need a return of 14% just to get back to even. 1:1 leverage pretty much eliminates any significant drawdown, and all the pros use 1:1, no law or regulation against it. Actually, the way regulation is going, it is probably what they are shooting for, which puts all undercapitalized traders out of business.
  • #1,016
  • Edited 4:59pm Feb 14, 2021 4:39pm | Edited 4:59pm
This thread has become large and I posted before that "other trader" about the leverage for US Traders with the 5%er's. But it really does not matter...I don't care.

You ask, Has the 5%er's helped me? Well I can now trade legally with leverage. So Yes. About the program I have said from the beginning it should be 80/20...or at least 70/30. Research the thread..you will discover that I am for the trader. .and the trader only...after all these years I hold traders in high regards.

ES

P.S. Traders please read my words as if they are being spoken with calmness and kindness. It is very hard to communicate in writing about the passion for trading. The 5%er's are the kindest folks you can find eventhough I got into it with one of the 5%ers admin here in this thread. I do not like lip service and I am for the trader only. I was posting about a second chance for traders by allowing a sort of grandfathering in of a rule change....but anyways that is over now and it was not interpreted as being a positive "win win" situation.

Quoting OutThere
{quote} I totally agree that US traders are attracted to the 5ers because it provides a loophole. Another trader already pointed that out and I totally understand and agree with the point. The said trader agreed with my point of view and explained his attraction to the 5ers due to the loophole as well. As with helping the new traders, it is arguable who is more helpful; me or the pipmaster77's of the world. As he has mentioned numerous times, he is one hell of a trader. That puts his in a separate league than the new traders. No offence ES but I...
  • #1,017
  • Feb 14, 2021 4:45pm Feb 14, 2021 4:45pm
A buddy of mine just PM'd me saying that I sound like I am in a bad mood.
He is right. I am ruining my mood on Valentine's day over something really stupid.

So, I am out.

happy Valentines day everybody.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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  • #1,018
  • Feb 14, 2021 4:51pm Feb 14, 2021 4:51pm
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Look, IDK what you are yapping about but I hate to burst your bubble. If you want to trade 1:1 leverage, that means no leverage. So, you don't want to use any leverage in your FX trading. I might be wrong but from discussions a long long time ago, I don't really think it is possible to trade FX with a broker without the use of leverage. It just doesn't sit right with the laws and regulations. I could be wrong. Who knows? Not too many ppl have gone that route and reported back on their success, so you might be the first on that road. Now...
Lol. You don't know what I am yapping about. I am proving to everyone, if I put $875 with the 5%ers and anyone else puts $875 in a personal account and both accounts generate 7%, 10%, 10%, 10% and 10%, regardless of time, the $875 with the 5ers generates an asset of 1.28 million capable of paying you $12,800 per month with only a 2% return, while the $875 in your personal account will have grown to, wait for it......... $1,370. Oh, and no big deal here..... my $875 with the 5ers will have earned me $92K plus in profit splits during that growth, while the personal account will have yielded absolutey nothing. After all, you have to keep those profits in to get it all the way up to $1,370!

That's what I'm yapping about. What exactly are you yapping about?
  • #1,019
  • Feb 14, 2021 5:02pm Feb 14, 2021 5:02pm
Pardon this extra post...I am getting contacted privately about copy trading with the 5%er's. I have confirmed with Adam & Snir that the copy trading rule in the terms and conditions is no longer enforced. If it has not been re-written yet...just ignore it.

So I really do not know what all the hub bub is...TRADE BOTH LIVE & with 5%er's...& with CTI...Hell these prop firms are popping up all over the place. Before you know it...you could be trading 10's of millions of dollars.

You can do it trader...get the extra capital to trade and be loyal to yourself!

Es
  • #1,020
  • Feb 14, 2021 5:12pm Feb 14, 2021 5:12pm
Quoting pipmaster77
{quote} Lol. You don't know what I am yapping about. I am proving to everyone, if I put $875 with the 5%ers and anyone else puts $875 in a personal account and both accounts generate 7%, 10%, 10%, 10% and 10%, regardless of time, the $875 with the 5ers generates an asset of 1.28 million capable of paying you $12,800 per month with only a 2% return, while the $875 in your personal account will have grown to, wait for it......... $1,370. Oh, and no big deal here..... my $875 with the 5ers will have earned me $92K plus in profit splits during that...
You made your point and you are 100% right. You have explained it in a simple terms and it is very understandable. "OutThere" is just lost. He is trying to prove something that has no point and he is wrong 100%. Don't bother explaining it to him, he will not get it, as his brain is just not picking it up. He is acting and think he is smart, but is not. His spreadsheet that he made, makes nosense. He needs to go back to highschool to basic mathematics course. He is not a trader, just a guy that comes here, being frustrated at his own failure and tries to bring others down. But it does not work, as we are here, to trade 5ers capital and make money. Don't bother with "OutThere" he has failed in trading, he does not have what it takes to be a trader and he will either learn that, or if not, he will simply fade away from here, and no one will bother with him either way. We will continue to trade/invest and make money. Trade safe.
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