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The5ers - Trading & Growth Program

  • #741
  • Dec 15, 2020 4:45am Dec 15, 2020 4:45am
Quoting slappymove
I find it funny that people are still debating/discussing the rules. But hey, at least prop firms like the5ers see other people's point of view and so far taken it to improve the conditions/rules for the better interest of both the trader and the firm. ------------------------------------------------------ I know I realized it late already but removing the trailing drawdown is a BIG YES for me. Looking forward next year to try the evaluation. Also plan to use a copy trading software and copy my live account trades with different risk % ......
@slappymove -- totally agree with your sentiment.

Here's a link to the web page with the image:
https://the5ers.com/lp/
  • #742
  • Dec 15, 2020 5:03am Dec 15, 2020 5:03am
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} + {quote} + {quote} = Guaranteed Disaster Just like I imagined you would be, all hot air, arguing with everyone, but cant trade to save your life. I am starting to think your hobby is more social troll than a trader.
@EcoTrader -- genius, you've just now figured out I spend more time social trolling than trading? You learn more slowly than most. I trade EAs. I don't spend all day staring at a screen searching, praying for setups. What else is an old man to do with his spare time? I even had time to browse through your dead threads -- you know, the more popular ones with 4 and 33 responses. Maybe you could share some things here that you've learned along the way. Or, maybe, I could help refresh your memory? As a "Commercial" member you must be a true professional -- we could learn a lot from someone like you...
  • #743
  • Dec 15, 2020 5:42am Dec 15, 2020 5:42am
Quoting OutThere
Once I had a coworker who was a Buddhist. I asked him to teach me Buddhism so I could understand what it was all about. Instead, he gave me a cassette tape recorded by his head monk that addressed just the sort of curiosity that I had. The head master said in it something like this: All humans have a desire to worship something, to look up to a greater power to seek guidance and they need rules to govern their lives by. Some find it in Christianity, some find it in Islam, some in Judaism and so on but if you haven't found the source of power that...
Lmao even though I disagree with 95% of what he ever says, how can anyone not enjoy a typical OutThere post, especially the ones laced with stories hahaha.

Lol the problem is that just like in the FTMO thread, OT has a very pessimistic, warped and unrealistic way of looking at these funded accounts.

You need to be able to understand that Drawdown limits don't necessarily limit or relate to buying power. We sign up to these firms mostly for the Buying power. It is then your job to figure out how to take advantage of the Buying power provided while managing the drawdown limits.
You can't expect these firms not to put in measures to protect themselves.

Think about it. The only real limiting factor is the leverage and I would have supported your argument a little if that were your main talking point.

But your buying power is not so affected by the DD limit if you really understand the whole point of leveraging and risk management.

With a $80000 account at 1:6 leverage and 4% DD limit, I could buy positions worth $480,000 and all I have to do is ensure that my DD never goes below 4%. How I choose to do so is my choice. It could be moving stops to B.E to mitigate extra risks or keeping initial entry risk a the barest minimum and only carefully adding extra positions to a trade that is working out.

YOU, YOU, YOU have to find a way to take advantage of the Buying power

Quoting robots4me
{quote} @Trader-IT -- I think @OutThere's confusion is rooted in his misconception the amount you can lose is the same as the amount you can trade. They are not the same. Until the light-bulb in his head goes on, then this posting is simply wasting electrons and increasing global warming. And as a true progressive I'm sure @OutThere wouldn't want to be the cause of the earth's temperature rising 10 degrees due to his postings... Consider a $250 account versus a $1,000,000 account with a StopLevel of $250. If my WinRate is 0% then both accounts...
Hammer on the nail. Thus argument will go on forever until he can see that Drawdown or loss limit does not equate to buying power.
  • #744
  • Edited 6:09am Dec 15, 2020 5:58am | Edited 6:09am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lmao even though I disagree with 95% of what he ever says, how can anyone not enjoy a typical OutThere post, especially the ones laced with stories hahaha. Lol the problem is that just like in the FTMO thread, OT has a very pessimistic, warped and unrealistic way of looking at these funded accounts. You need to be able to understand that Drawdown limits don't necessarily limit or relate to buying power. We sign up to these firms mostly for the Buying power. It is then your job to figure out how to take advantage of the Buying power provided...
Buying power?????

.07 positions open in a 6K account and you hit margin call for EU moving a pip is buying power????

Well, I'm glad my posts are entertaining but at least they are realistic.

I don't know where u come up with your 80K account but If you find a way of making 150% with the buying power offered in a $6000 1:6 account with $1500 margin available, slip me a clue.
Actually you already did: DO NOT GO INTO DD.
I got it. It requires perfection. Thanks.
  • #745
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:04am Dec 15, 2020 6:04am
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} + {quote} + {quote} = Guaranteed Disaster Just like I imagined you would be, all hot air, arguing with everyone, but cant trade to save your life. I am starting to think your hobby is more social troll than a trader.
Lmao Eco, is this a stalking case?
  • #746
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:07am Dec 15, 2020 6:07am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lmao even though I disagree with 95% of what he ever says, how can anyone not enjoy a typical OutThere post, especially the ones laced with stories hahaha. Lol the problem is that just like in the FTMO thread, OT has a very pessimistic, warped and unrealistic way of looking at these funded accounts. You need to be able to understand that Drawdown limits don't necessarily limit or relate to buying power. We sign up to these firms mostly for the Buying power. It is then your job to figure out how to take advantage of the Buying power provided...
"You need to be able to understand that Drawdown limits don't necessarily limit or relate to buying power. We sign up to these firms mostly for the Buying power. It is then your job to figure out how to take advantage of the Buying power provided while managing the drawdown limits.
You can't expect these firms not to put in measures to protect themselves."

@Koop -- in these 4 sentences you've captured the essence of what @the5ers offers us. Some of us might be "good enough" to take advantage of the additional Buying power and some of us might need more practice. "Good enough" will differ from trader-to-trader and from trading style-to-style. The cost to play is quite reasonable and you essentially get to lose the price of your registration (or pass the challenge). And based on the way it is structured and the effort they put into providing new content and education, I figure even if one doesn't pass at first, just going through their process and figuring out how to better manage money and risk you'd come away a better trader.
  • #747
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:08am Dec 15, 2020 6:08am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Buying power????? .07 positions open in a 6K account and you hit margin call for EU moving a pip is buying power???? Well, I'm glad my posts are entertaining but at least they are realistic. I don't know where u come up with your 80K account but If you find a way of making 150% with the buying power offered in a $6000 1:6 account with $1500 margin available, slip me a clue.
No man, we are on the same page regarding Leverage and Max exposure(haven't they removed this though?). They are very limiting to buying power. Those are my only major qualms with 5ers and I have already said many times that they could slow down growth significantly.

The bone of contention I have with you is that you keep saying the DD limit is the actual value of the account which is simply not true. Proper risk management is key.
  • #748
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:13am Dec 15, 2020 6:13am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} "You need to be able to understand that Drawdown limits don't necessarily limit or relate to buying power. We sign up to these firms mostly for the Buying power. It is then your job to figure out how to take advantage of the Buying power provided while managing the drawdown limits. You can't expect these firms not to put in measures to protect themselves." @Koop -- in these 4 sentences you've captured the essence of what @the5ers offers us. Some of us might be "good enough" to take advantage of the additional Buying power and some of us...
If you are running a real 6K 5ers account and have trades open, what is your ' free margin' atm?
You can not possibly have more than 1500 available with every additional .01 trade eating around $200 of it.....unless you hedge.
  • #749
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:16am Dec 15, 2020 6:16am
Quoting Koop
{quote} No man, we are on the same page regarding Leverage and Max exposure(haven't they removed this though?). They are very limiting to buying power. Those are my only major qualms with 5ers and I have already said many times that they could slow down growth significantly. The bone of contention I have with you is that you keep saying the DD limit is the actual value of the account which is simply not true. Proper risk management is key.
Well, that bone of contention is going to stay in place I'm afraid.
  • #750
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:25am Dec 15, 2020 6:25am
Quoting The5ersTF
{quote} Dear OutThere I think you have made your point already. There is no need to repeat the same thing over and over again. Thank you.
I only repeat myself when I am quoted.

I know this is your thread but one would say you also have made your point repeatedly as well and will continue doing so.

It would be helpful to let us know how many positions of EU can a trader open in a 6K account without getting margin called. Is it .07 or .30?

Thanks for addressing the question.
  • #751
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:31am Dec 15, 2020 6:31am
With a balance of $6,000 at 1:6, you can hold up to $36,000 market worth of assets.
While EURUSD is 1.21602, that would be 0.29 Lot
We are Forex traders - Come trade with us
  • #752
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:33am Dec 15, 2020 6:33am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} @EcoTrader -- genius, you've just now figured out I spend more time social trolling than trading? You learn more slowly than most. I trade EAs. I don't spend all day staring at a screen searching, praying for setups. What else is an old man to do with his spare time? I even had time to browse through your dead threads -- you know, the more popular ones with 4 and 33 responses. Maybe you could share some things here that you've learned along the way. Or, maybe, I could help refresh your memory? As a "Commercial" member you must be a true...
let's be clear, you program EAs which you then sugar coat as trading. Oh the irony in you mocking my intelligence, yesterday you even mentioned an untrained monkey. It's ironic, because, here you are after 3 years trying to make a success and what you come up with is having > 20 trades open at a time, no stops, and happy to hold onto losers until they become winners. That right there is a special kind of genius, synonymous to hitting a stick repeatedly and expecting a different outcome.

Here is a member of this forum that trades like you do. I have masked his profile but it will undoubtedly reflect the accounts you own.


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As to the professionalism of being a commercial, go read the forum rules because you clearly haven't. You have breached code of conduct rules many times over. You really have no basis to attack professionalism when you can't abide by the rules yourself.
  • #753
  • Edited 6:59am Dec 15, 2020 6:42am | Edited 6:59am
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} let's be clear, you program EAs which you then sugar coat as trading. Oh the irony in you mocking my intelligence, yesterday you even mentioned an untrained monkey. It's ironic, because, here you are after 3 years trying to make a success and what you come up with is having > 20 trades open at a time, no stops, and happy to hold onto losers until they become winners. That right there is a special kind of genius, synonymous to hitting a stick repeatedly and expecting a different outcome. Here is a member of this forum that trades like you...
Oh, oh -- you're in trouble now. BTB will see this and he'll be on your ass big time.

As for trading 28 pairs -- son, you have no clue. When an algorithm provides an edge it is okay (even desirable) to have multiple positions open at the same time because the probability is there will be more winners than losers. So, while some pairs are losing, others are winning. You have heard of probability, haven't you?

And as for lecturing me about breaching code of conduct -- coming from you, master potty mouth, isn't that peachy...
  • #754
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:46am Dec 15, 2020 6:46am
Quoting robots4me
{quote} Oh, oh -- you're in trouble now. BTB will see this and he'll be on your ass big time. As for trading 28 pairs -- son, you have no clue. When an algorithm provides an edge it is okay (even advantageous) to have multiple positions open at the same time because the probability is there will be more winners than losers. So, while some pairs are losing, others are winning. You have heard of probability, haven't you?
the probability of you losing all your accounts is on par with the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. You have no edge, you have only an imagination of an edge.
  • #755
  • Dec 15, 2020 6:58am Dec 15, 2020 6:58am
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} the probability of you losing all your accounts is on par with the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. You have no edge, you have only an imagination of an edge.
@EcoTrader -- now you've really done it. You've gone and hurt my feelings... But, hey, I'm in good company -- you've had some psychological issues of your own, right?
  • #756
  • Dec 15, 2020 7:03am Dec 15, 2020 7:03am
Quoting OutThere
{quote} Buying power????? .07 positions open in a 6K account and you hit margin call for EU moving a pip is buying power???? Well, I'm glad my posts are entertaining but at least they are realistic. I don't know where u come up with your 80K account but If you find a way of making 150% with the buying power offered in a $6000 1:6 account with $1500 margin available, slip me a clue. Actually you already did: DO NOT GO INTO DD. I got it. It requires perfection. Thanks.

Lol just saw your edit ..

You just shot yourself in the foot by not including a time factor.
Are you saying it's impossible to to return 150% on a $6000 account at 1:6 leverage? Why is that impossible over time? It would definitely be slower than if you had a leverage of 1:100 but is sure as hell very doable.

Available margin depends on leverage and account balance and that's all that make up your buying power. It has nothing to do with DD limit and that's my point.

Assuming they have eliminated the max exposure thing as I read somewhere, check this example.

$6000 funded account - 1:6 leverage - $240 max Loss.

Let's analyze buying power based on what you think - (that $6000 at 1:6 and 4% max Loss is exactly equivalent to a broker live account balance of $240 at 1:150 leverage)

5ers - 6000 @ 1:6 = $36000 buying power
Broker - 240 @ 1:150 = $36000 ""

Great, I see what you mean here. You're totally right, especially since a loss of 240 on 5ers is equivalent to an account closure with your broker. I see your point now. This is valid at this stage.

Simply meaning the 6% gain that is required of you at this stage in order to move on to the next step is actually 150% of $240 masked as 6% of $6000.

Lol wait a sec, I think this is true too (holy crap)...

But then again OT, it is really a function of the leverage and allowed margin more than it is about the DD limit.

The leverage is what limits buying power and equates a 6000 @ 1:6 to a 240 account @ 1:150.

Because, with $6000 at 1:100..... Even with 4% $240 DD limit, your buying power is not limited.

Freaking leverage.

I believe the main sauce is in the growth plan. But even that is limited by leverage. 5ers would have the best terms out there if they bumped their leverage up to 1:100... Never mind that, 1:50, even if max Loss stayed at 4%. The new 1:30 is a great development and I don't mind the 4%.
'
Its their business, I'm sure they are well within their plans.
  • #757
  • Dec 15, 2020 7:54am Dec 15, 2020 7:54am
Quoting Koop
{quote} Lol just saw your edit .. You just shot yourself in the foot by not including a time factor. Are you saying it's impossible to to return 150% on a $6000 account at 1:6 leverage? Why is that impossible over time? It would definitely be slower than if you had a leverage of 1:100 but is sure as hell very doable. Available margin depends on leverage and account balance and that's all that make up your buying power. It has nothing to do with DD limit and that's my point. Assuming they have eliminated the max exposure thing as I read somewhere,...
Not really sure why this is so hard to grasp. Whether trading prop firm, real account, 1:6 leverage, 1:1000 leverage, YOU MUST HAVE A LOSS LIMIT. In my FTMO account I am offered 100:1 leverage, I risk 5% of my available drawdown limit, which is .5% of equity when starting the month. I know my s/l and t/p when I place the trade and I adjust the position size based on the s/l being that .5%. Sometimes it's 2:1, sometimes 1:1 sometimes .5:1. Therefore, my trading plan can be used with ANY PROP FIRM and have the same results. Once again, this is all about buying power which I would not have on my own. Sure if I want to blow up account after account I could throw $500 in a 500:1 account and gamble my money away, but that's not my plan. My plan is to manage $4 million dollars across multiple prop firms using 1:1 or 2:1 leverage. I can make .5-.75% daily without even getting anywhere close to the loss limits in place.
  • #758
  • Dec 15, 2020 11:33am Dec 15, 2020 11:33am
Quoting Koop
{quote}Assuming they have eliminated the max exposure thing as I read somewhere...
From Facebook:
"There is no more Max exposure definition, from now on the accounts will be limited by the leverage set for the account which is 1:6 for the risk manager programs and 1:30 for the aggressive programs.
You can open as many positions as you wish as long as the account leverage allows you."

and:

Quoting Trader-IT
{quote} I follow your example. With 6000$ you have a total stop at -250$. Use what 6000$ allows you by setting your SL to 25$. You have 10 chances to be wrong. This is just an adjustable example. Don't forget that the maximum loss level of 5750$ remains the same even when you increase your account.
At 6200$ you will have a stop at -450$. Which is always 5750$
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #759
  • Dec 15, 2020 11:55am Dec 15, 2020 11:55am
Quoting ElectricSavant
...This EA allows me never to forget my SL and TP..AND it allows me to drag them around on the chart after they are set.... {quote}
I wrote a post in response to this, where I warned that an "almost" identical tool I was using, was creating big problems for me.

I finally downloaded what you indicated, and it's perfect.
Hundreds of orders set up to perfection and no problem moving -after- the levels.

It was fair to make this review. Thanks for your advice.

PS:
since it is a free tool and can be downloaded from the official Metaquotes website, I have no problem resubmitting the link.

https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/15743

Attached Image
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe
  • #760
  • Dec 17, 2020 8:33am Dec 17, 2020 8:33am
Drawdown is part of the game, but that did not stop Satchyl from hitting the target.

Funded trader Satchyl reveals how he recovered from a losing streak and succeded to pass to the next level

Inserted Video
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