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The Loneliness of the Long Distance Trader

  • #81
  • Nov 14, 2018 1:32pm Nov 14, 2018 1:32pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Heh. For me, trading IS the love of my life. Friends and girlfriends will fall in line or be replaced!
That's ok, it's a choice. Not mine, but i respect that
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #82
  • Nov 14, 2018 2:30pm Nov 14, 2018 2:30pm
Quoting Chake
{quote} That's ok, it's a choice. Not mine, but i respect that
There was a little hyperbole in my prior post. I would not replace my mother.

I think the point of the thread generally is how bad do want to succeed? The people we read about and see on television in any field made that vocation their life. Many scientists have done the same. There is no school to go to in this endeavor. Friends and family must understand what you are trying to do. If they don't it may become necessary to question whether or not they are indeed friends and family.

It is not necessary to choose, because true friends and family will be in your corner regardless, win or lose.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #83
  • Nov 14, 2018 3:50pm Nov 14, 2018 3:50pm
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} There was a little hyperbole in my prior post. I would not replace my mother. I think the point of the thread generally is how bad do want to succeed? The people we read about and see on television in any field made that vocation their life. Many scientists have done the same. There is no school to go to in this endeavor. Friends and family must understand what you are trying to do. If they don't it may become necessary to question whether or not they are indeed friends and family. It is not necessary to choose, because true friends and...
Having tried to hold together a relationship with someone that didn't even know that 2008 was a recession and blamed our financial problems on me(then stole everything I had) I can confirm that the love of the market trumps any love for specific humans.

When someone steals time from your lifespan it becomes difficult not to quantify the loss. How do we, as humans, place value on such an irreplaceable commodity?

Quoting 3ndlessHope
Friends and girls come and go. True friendship is true only until a point where it becames false, same with love. Its sad, but true. Being realistic and independent has downsides but overall it helped me more and most likely im not the only one.
The closest you'll get to friendship is a mutual understanding of game theory and an awareness that we're all VERY fucking outnumbered by the rest on this planet. My closest friend was the only one that was there when I hit rock bottom. Sure, it may have been because he had some understanding of what I was trying to do and saw it as a fantastic risk/reward to be there... But he still made that choice. He may not value me specifically but he saw the potential future value of my time and his. Anyone that can't find the value in other people's time isn't doing it right.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #84
  • Nov 15, 2018 12:20am Nov 15, 2018 12:20am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Having tried to hold together a relationship with someone that didn't even know that 2008 was a recession and blamed our financial problems on me(then stole everything I had) I can confirm that the love of the market trumps any love for specific humans. When someone steals time from your lifespan it becomes difficult not to quantify the loss. How do we, as humans, place value on such an irreplaceable commodity? {quote} The closest you'll get to friendship is a mutual understanding of game theory and an awareness that we're all VERY fucking...
Redeflect,

Thanks for opening up on what must have been a private/harrowing experience...

What was the key takeaway for you from the above experiences within that range of time?
  • #85
  • Edited 2:20am Nov 15, 2018 2:07am | Edited 2:20am
Quoting aaven
{quote} Redeflect, Thanks for opening up on what must have been a private/harrowing experience... What was the key takeaway for you from the above experiences within that range of time?
Off the top of my head? That a majority of young people don't think much about their past(nor future). Mostly because they have only 2nd hand "experience" of life before they were born and fear their demise.

I consider men twice my age to be my competition because I know in 30 years the men my age will want a stake. But with that knowledge comes a hell of a responsibility.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #86
  • Nov 15, 2018 8:17am Nov 15, 2018 8:17am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Off the top of my head? That a majority of young people don't think much about their past(nor future). Mostly because they have only 2nd hand "experience" of life before they were born and fear their demise. I consider men twice my age to be my competition because I know in 30 years the men my age will want a stake. But with that knowledge comes a hell of a responsibility.
Thanks Redeflect...

"because I know in 30 years the men my age will want a stake."

I am unable to understand the above, if time permits could you please illustrate with an example?
  • #87
  • Nov 15, 2018 9:59am Nov 15, 2018 9:59am
At the end of the day, if you are known to be lazy, uncommitted &/or the gambling type then people close to you will not take you seriously & rightly so. It's up to you to prove em all wrong. On the other hand, if you're known to be the opposite then people around you will be supportive & maybe even interested, it's up to you to prove em all right.

If you are the latter & yet receive no support then I'm afraid you need to start taking names. Get rid of the 'losers' ASAP. Just like in trading...hold onto winners but drop the rest like a hot potato!

who dares wins
  • #88
  • Edited 12:45pm Nov 15, 2018 11:48am | Edited 12:45pm
Quoting aaven
{quote} Thanks Redeflect... "because I know in 30 years the men my age will want a stake." I am unable to understand the above, if time permits could you please illustrate with an example?
Young men want more money so they can possess the world. Old men want more time so they can possess life. However, the latter group has had quite a few eons to work out a solution to this problem. And so time is money.

An example would be temporal logistics. But the exchange only flows in one direction.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #89
  • Nov 15, 2018 2:18pm Nov 15, 2018 2:18pm
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Young men want more money so they can possess the world. Old men want more time so they can possess life. However, the latter group has had quite a few eons to work out a solution to this problem. And so time is money. An example would be temporal logistics. But the exchange only flows in one direction.
Thanks Redeflect for the touch of philosophy...
  • #90
  • Nov 16, 2018 12:15am Nov 16, 2018 12:15am
Quoting MasterJedi
At the end of the day, if you are known to be lazy, uncommitted &/or the gambling type then people close to you will not take you seriously & rightly so. It's up to you to prove em all wrong. On the other hand, if you're known to be the opposite then people around you will be supportive & maybe even interested, it's up to you to prove em all right. If you are the latter & yet receive no support then I'm afraid you need to start taking names. Get rid of the 'losers' ASAP. Just like in trading...hold onto winners but drop the rest like a hot potato!...
Absolutely agree.

If the force is not strong in them, they will prove to be distractions and hinder the journey towards mastery.

Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Young men want more money so they can possess the world. Old men want more time so they can possess life. However, the latter group has had quite a few eons to work out a solution to this problem. And so time is money. An example would be temporal logistics. But the exchange only flows in one direction.
For a young cat you are pretty astute. You have either had good mentors or have endured suffering.
If you are good at something, never do it for free--Joker
  • #91
  • Nov 16, 2018 2:35am Nov 16, 2018 2:35am
Quoting Chake
{quote}. If you do go for trading at all cost, you "maybe" end up with a lot off cash but noone to share it with,...…. if you want to drag it into another discussion it will be without me.
I wasn't dragging this anywhere, though I get your inference here, as time spent at work is immaterial and not relevant to this thread, unless your wife/partner wants you in bed and you have to trade instead, which I guess can be an issue for those living in parts of the world anti-social for the European and US trading hours, though thankfully I'm not one of them.

Back to the point though - ' trading at all cost '? I think trading is like any other skill which has to be learnt in that it has to be learnt. Very easy to understand this for anyone if you are studying to become a doctor or learning to play a musical instrument, both of which require thousands of hours of study to become expert, but not so easy to understand when one is spending the same amount of time watching little black and white bars move up and down a screen. For this reason, trading presents an even bigger challenge than most cognitive skills, not because it requires any more commitment, but because the odds against us are so very much higher.

The cost one is prepared to pay to achieve ultimate success is proportionate to the will of the individual. That is all I am saying.
  • #92
  • Edited 6:49pm Nov 16, 2018 5:10pm | Edited 6:49pm
Quoting MasterJedi
At the end of the day, if you are known to be lazy, uncommitted &/or the gambling type then people close to you will not take you seriously & rightly so. It's up to you to prove em all wrong. On the other hand, if you're known to be the opposite then people around you will be supportive & maybe even interested, it's up to you to prove em all right. If you are the latter & yet receive no support then I'm afraid you need to start taking names. Get rid of the 'losers' ASAP. Just like in trading...hold onto winners but drop the rest like a hot potato!...
Its an unfortunate thing to be called lazy just because you spent your childhood observing and contemplating before acting while others hid from their pain.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #93
  • Nov 16, 2018 7:05pm Nov 16, 2018 7:05pm
Like other professions you have to pursue trading at all cost to master it.
The problem is there isn't a formal curriculum you follow that we eventually graduate as a competent trader.
There is no guarantee that we will ever be competent traders even if we put in the time and effort.
Trading is a financial speculation that is seen as gambling.
To the normal 9-5 working crowd they see us as addicted gamblers, lazy to hold the normal job.
Even when you make money they think we got lucky with our gambling, we will lose it all back and more when the roll of the dice is against us.
The religious and moral group will always shun us as we are doing a bad thing from their point of view.
There is those who are jealous that we make much more money than they earn - some of whom can be in high corporate positions.
They claim we don't contribute towards the betterment of society.
By being a retail trader we naturally face so much adversity that the normal society throws at us.
It is even worse if you are a losing trader.
There's no way normal society will accept retail trading as a pursuit similar to other profession.
We are not just alone.
We are condemned as the irresponsible scourge of our families and society they wish they never have.
That's how low a retail trader is in the eyes of the public in general - an irresponsible compulsive gambler.
  • #94
  • Nov 16, 2018 9:53pm Nov 16, 2018 9:53pm
Quoting cat
{quote} My sincerest apologies Cindy, your replies are very much appreciated as they all are, but somehow I overlooked them, and it's absolutely nothing personal I can assure you. I'm a bit in and out at the moment as I've been staying with my elderly Mum for the past week, so it's very much half an eye on things work wise, and half an eye on her. Again, sincerest apologies, your input is valued, and I hope it won't discourage you from commenting on any of my threads in the future.
Look , all i can say is ... I Understand

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nLKb4Wa8DD0
Time hides Nothing
  • #95
  • Nov 17, 2018 1:47am Nov 17, 2018 1:47am
Quoting cat
The cost one is prepared to pay to achieve ultimate success is proportionate to the will of the individual. That is all I am saying.
Agreed!
Al I'm saying is: make sure it will not cost you your family and friends, it is not worth it.

Quoting skyway
.....That's how low a retail trader is in the eyes of the public in general - an irresponsible compulsive gambler.
Skyway, although I hear what you are saying and have expierienced something similar a few times, in my opinion you are to negative.
I have been encouraged a lot too and have a lot of people who think it is great what I'm doing.
Maybe that's why I am saying I don't want to loose family/friends while trading.
Persistence will get it. Consistency will keep it.
  • #96
  • Nov 17, 2018 4:01am Nov 17, 2018 4:01am
Quoting skyway
Trading is a financial speculation that is seen as gambling...... They claim we don't contribute towards the betterment of society.... It is even worse if you are a losing trader..... That's how low a retail trader is in the eyes of the public in general - an irresponsible compulsive gambler.
Just to pick up on those points. Yes it is seen as gambling, which is why for tax purposes here in the UK, spreadbetting is tax exempt as it falls under gambling profits.

Trading is not even worse if you are losing, it is infinitely worse. I do not know a single consistently profitable trader who is miserable with his/her life, but I know a fair few consistently losing traders that are.

We do not contribute to society? Well, that's debatable, for even if we are losing traders we contribute to society by giving nice monetary gifts to the brokers who are then taxed by the government, and that money goes back into society by providing funds for education, the NHS etc. If we are making loads of money as traders, then it is up to each individual to put something back if they want to, so give to selected charities, help other traders, help out family members and friends....the list is endless.

The public may see us as irresponsible compulsive gamblers, but who cares, the public hate politicians in general, yet they get on with their jobs as we have to. It is how we are viewed by our loved ones that can really affect most of us, and when we are in the learning process, which usually takes years, with nothing or little to show for it, then it is hardly surprising when we are criticized and lambasted by those who do not understand what we are trying to achieve or even what are capabilities are.

Through all of this, each and every one of us, if becoming a successful trader is truly what our heart and soul desires, has to stick to our guns, even if it means alienating certain people, and pursue the dream with the dedication and desire that all successful people need if they are to succeed in their chosen field.
  • #97
  • Nov 17, 2018 4:19am Nov 17, 2018 4:19am
"if becoming a successful trader is truly what our heart and soul desires, has to stick to our guns, even if it means alienating certain people, and pursue the dream with the dedication and desire that all successful people need if they are to succeed in their chosen field."

I sense that my friends are either jealousy are wants me to fail miserably, i can see that they are laughing behind me . Ashame to call themselves my friends anymore. But i am lucky enough to have my wife stand besides me as she is witnessing my input into this journey.
on a postive roll...
  • #98
  • Nov 17, 2018 4:50am Nov 17, 2018 4:50am
Quoting cat
{quote} Just to pick up on those points. Yes it is seen as gambling, which is why for tax purposes here in the UK, spreadbetting is tax exempt as it falls under gambling profits.
Hi Cat, correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think it's regarded as simple spreadbetting if you eventually make a living from trading. If you have another job but make regular moderate profit from trading then you might be taxed for capital gains only. But if you trade full time then I think your profits will be taxed as income like any other professional.

Cheers.
who dares wins
  • #99
  • Nov 17, 2018 8:54am Nov 17, 2018 8:54am
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Absolutely agree. If the force is not strong in them, they will prove to be distractions and hinder the journey towards mastery. {quote} For a young cat you are pretty astute. You have either had good mentors or have endured suffering.
Actually, it turns out there is a 3rd and unmentioned path: being a moron and a masochist for long enough.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #100
  • Nov 17, 2018 9:55am Nov 17, 2018 9:55am
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} Actually, it turns out there is a 3rd and unmentioned path: being a moron and a masochist for long enough.
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