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The Loneliness of the Long Distance Trader

  • #21
  • Oct 3, 2018 4:55am Oct 3, 2018 4:55am
Quoting cat
{quote} Hi EcoTrader. Perhaps you could elaborate on this for the benefit of the thread, as it seems from this statement that you found a short cut to consistently profitable trading, or a short cut was given to you?
Yes I'd too be interested to read this. Also, you (EcoTrader) mention a switch away from TA early on?
  • #22
  • Oct 3, 2018 7:03am Oct 3, 2018 7:03am
Quoting alphaomega
{quote} Forex Factory is one of the best forums on the internet in terms of software/interface. This is the reason why it so successful! You can find at least a few hundred other Forex forums on the internet, but only One with so many active users and readers. On the topic of loneliness,.....you just have to deal with it. No one can help you. This is the nature of business. There are always trade offs and sacrifices. Trading gives you a lot of independence. It's perfect for introverts and tech nerds. But if you want to be around other people all...
Sometimes people trade in pairs, but you are right, trading is usually a solitary occupation.
  • #23
  • Oct 3, 2018 7:15am Oct 3, 2018 7:15am
Quoting cat
{quote} Hi EcoTrader. Perhaps you could elaborate on this for the benefit of the thread, as it seems from this statement that you found a short cut to consistently profitable trading, or a short cut was given to you?
Hi cat

It wasn't really a shortcut but rather a transition from my initial approach to where I am today that was influenced by dialogue with professional traders. I don't trade their strategies but rather took their approach and designed my own interpretation. I spent 3 months observing, researching, asking questions to professional traders before I started applying the knowledge. In the first couple of months progress was slow as i devised new rules but it rapidly picked up and 12 months later my account is up over 130% without a losing month. At what point do i classify myself as successful i guess would be when i transition to full-time however, I do classify myself as being able to make consistent profits.

Total time in markets is 15 months.
  • #24
  • Oct 3, 2018 7:18am Oct 3, 2018 7:18am
Quoting TeenyTrader
{quote} Yes I'd too be interested to read this. Also, you (EcoTrader) mention a switch away from TA early on?
if you want more details on this i am happy to share but don't want to diverge from the threads topic so maybe a separate thread.
  • #25
  • Oct 3, 2018 7:29am Oct 3, 2018 7:29am
Quoting EcoTrader
{quote} if you want more details on this i am happy to share but don't want to diverge from the threads topic so maybe a separate thread.
That's fine, I think it would make a good thread for those who might like to know how you trade, but whilst you're here, you could just briefly outline the basics, so are you a fundie, techie, or both. What tf/s do you trade off, and what's your average trade duration/trade size and stop loss. That'd be cool and it would give us a pretty good idea how you operate. It's up to you though, if you'd rather not, no probs.
  • #26
  • Oct 3, 2018 7:31am Oct 3, 2018 7:31am
Quoting cat
I don't know how many people out there ever read the 1950s classic ' The Loneliness of the Long-Distance runner ', by Alan Sillitoe. In fact, the book is a collection of short stories, this story being just one of them. I won't say much about it, but it is s story of isolation, of immense dedication in the face of enormous adversity in a world cut off from normality which no one, sometimes not even oneself, understands. It is well worth a read for us traders, and there is also a 1962 film with the same title. There is s strong parallel with us traders....
no boss, no office rent, work whenever whereever you want. you just need a laptop and internet connection, next step is printing money. these words i read in a forex education book when i entered this world. nobody mentioned those side effects.
wonderful post again c,

удаче товарищ
  • #27
  • Oct 3, 2018 7:47am Oct 3, 2018 7:47am
Quoting cbo
{quote} no boss, no office rent, work whenever whereever you want. you just need a laptop and internet connection, next step is printing money. these words i read in a forex education book when i entered this world. nobody mentioned those side effects. wonderful post again c, удаче товарищ
Спасибо, вам тоже!
  • #28
  • Oct 3, 2018 9:12am Oct 3, 2018 9:12am
Quoting magnumfreak
{quote}The problem with people is that they listen to and believe in other peoples opinions far too much. I love it when people who have never opened a trade in their life tell me what I am doing won't work. People will resist what they don't understand. Most of the time it is out of fear. They are not scared that you will fail, they are scared that you will succeed and leave them behind and that makes them very uncomfortable.
Absolutely spot on! In general people are afraid that the other will be more competent than them and will succeed leaving them in the dust of their 9-5 boring job with no prospect in the future. They are accustomed on depending on someone else to provide them for a living. In their case working for another company. There are not that many entrepreneurs in the world compared to ordinary working 9-5 people, and for a good reason.

Too many sheep following the herd, unfortunately. So yes, it is a struggle when you find yourself among them. The majority.
  • #29
  • Oct 3, 2018 9:34am Oct 3, 2018 9:34am
So far this thread has been anecdotal, which is great, it's supposed to be, as it's a supportive thread, the aim of which is to highlight and emphasize the realities of attempting to become a full time, successful retail trader. In my own experience, it has been a long hard road, not because I have experienced devastating losses, I never have due to my strict money management principles, but because it has taken me far longer to really get to grips with the many challenges this business poses than I ever realized or understood when I began.

I am a little bit sceptical when traders tell me that they have managed to achieve in one year what it takes most to achieve in several at least, not because I think it impossible, anything is possible, but because it is unlikely. EcoTrader claims consistent profits, and I say great, but how? How is the risk reward? Is it the sort of strategy anyone normal novice trader could manage in terms of risk tolerance or is it a strategy which requires a heart of stone as one's trades run heavily into the red before they turn around? So until EcoTrader and others making bold claims can elaborate, this is not a thread to be making unsubstantiated claims -why? Because it is of no use to any of us.

Changing tack, my own approach to trading was formed in the early days when, due to time constraints, as I was working outside trading full time, I found I was spending far too much of the time I had for trading doing not very much at all, staring at hourly charts. I knew I needed to trade, but where were the opportunities? One or two a day was useless for me. So I went down to smaller time frames - 30m, 15m, 5m, surely no smaller I thought, that would be ridiculous, but no, in fact, a 1m chart looked just like a 5m chart, hell, it could be an hourly chart if I didn't know otherwise, and then I went smaller still, 30 sec, 15 sec, 10 sec, even 3 second ( too small I admit it.....but possible to trade if your a schizophrenic ). Now I was getting trades, no longer was I sitting twiddling my thumbs, I was trading, yes, losing a lot admittedly, but I was trading and learning through trial and error, the only way to learn in my world. Gradually, little by little, I began to see order emerging out of the chaos. I played around with different moving averages, different time frames, multiple time frames, trying to find correlations, sequences, patterns.

Yes, we are all different, and what suits one trader will not necessarily suit another, but, I will say this, the fastest way to learn anything is through practice, and this applies to trading as much as learning any new skill. The more often we place trades, the faster we learn. If any of us have spent a whole day staring at pa waiting for the opportunity which never came, then it has been a completely wasted day in my opinion. We have to trade, as often as we can, for every trade taken, whether it ends up as a winning or losing trade, is a valuable lesson learnt.
  • #30
  • Oct 3, 2018 11:48am Oct 3, 2018 11:48am
I realise it must be difficult to believe that I have achieved something that takes the typical retail trader years or never. The differentiation in my approach to the general approach by retail traders is ultimately why that time frame is not years. So to break it down into the How's and why:

I have been working in the industry for 20 years in close proximity to institutional traders and the respective trade data. As a result of this I have been exposed to all types of trade related data and methodologies of which they are fairly complex with models like volsurface, linear Volatility surface, risk models around rates and tenors. I started trading around 15 months ago initially looking at technicals like everyone else in the retail side.

After a month my conclusion of technicals is that it is highly unreliable for trade entry due to the nature of probability. I could not accept the general consensus that a failed trade if executed according to plan is a function of the nature of probability. There has to be a reason price is behaving in a particular way and technicals just don't provide that context.

I decided to educate myself in accordance with professional traders and since I had access to them at work I simply went and asked how they apply technicals. I was welcomed with laughter but a few traders decided to part with information. I was simply asked why do you think we have bloomberg terminals that's when it clicked as to being fundamentaly driven. Over the next 3 months I spent time observing, researching and asking questions while molding my own interpretation of the process.

My understanding is my path to success has been reduced because of the influence I had from those traders and ultimately the edge that I apply. I don't use charts to define a trade but rather based them off fundamental analysis and catalysts (scheduled and unscheduled events). These can include economic releases, political, tweets etc. A trade can last anything from minutes to a few days but it depends on the situation at hand which incorporates sentiment, time, and price action. I manage trades off charts but only to assess levels and time where for example a catalyst that drives price to a level but stays there for more than 20 minutes is for me a signal to terminate the trade.

There are other facets to managing trades that include accounting for current sentiment, upcoming scheduled events, and even the absense of risk events. The trade management element is by far the most complex aspect of my trading becaus it is dynamic. I have a physical stop of 4% always and a mental stop of 25 pips but that is in context to the magnitude of the opportunity based on the catalyst in respect to central bank policy. If the opportunity is of a lower grade as it quite often is I will accept a 10 pip profit or a 25 pip loss but in reality my trade management will get me out long before 25 pips. I have only had a few full 25 pip losses (and some larger but that is my own error of miscalculated opportunity) with the vast majority ending up closed for a few pips in the green or red.

To conclude I should stress that I don't trade probability and because of this I don't have the pitfalls of probability. I trade events where it is guaranteed, given I have done my homework and correctly assessed the situation, the market will react to re-price in the new information. I have a win rate that fluctuates around 80% (currently 81%) with a best trade return being 2% and worst trade return of - 1.1%.

My goal is to extract 10% monthly but I have been exceeding this target.

Anything else you want to know?
  • #31
  • Oct 3, 2018 1:04pm Oct 3, 2018 1:04pm
Quoting EcoTrader
I realise it must be difficult to believe that I have achieved something that takes the typical retail trader years or never. The differentiation in my approach to the general approach by retail traders is ultimately why that time frame is not years. So to break it down into the How's and why: I have been working in the industry for 20 years in close proximity to institutional traders and the respective trade data. As a result of this I have been exposed to all types of trade related data and methodologies of which they are fairly complex with models...
Thanks for taking the time to explain. Your approach is very far from mine, so it's interesting to see someone who can profit consistently without even looking at a chart before placing a trade. As they say, there are many ways to skin a cat!
  • #32
  • Oct 3, 2018 1:25pm Oct 3, 2018 1:25pm
Quoting cat
{quote} there are many ways to skin a cat!
No pun indented I guess
  • #33
  • Oct 4, 2018 7:43pm Oct 4, 2018 7:43pm
Hi cat
this came to minde
and we wont be together much longer unless we realise that we are the same
Inserted Video
  • #34
  • Oct 5, 2018 5:10am Oct 5, 2018 5:10am
Quoting Squiggles
Hi cat this came to minde and we wont be together much longer unless we realise that we are the same https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=terg_LPT3X0
Harmony...Life and trading is all about harmony. Some of us find it, some of us don't.
  • #35
  • Oct 5, 2018 5:35am Oct 5, 2018 5:35am
Quoting EcoTrader
I realise it must be difficult to believe that I have achieved something that takes the typical retail trader years or never. The differentiation in my approach to the general approach by retail traders is ultimately why that time frame is not years. So to break it down into the How's and why: I have been working in the industry for 20 years in close proximity to institutional traders and the respective trade data. As a result of this I have been exposed to all types of trade related data and methodologies of which they are fairly complex with models...
Sounds really good Eco.Obviously you have the advantadge of your work experience on the "other side of the table".
News and fundamentals move the market, but a good chartist can reflect those movements in his trading.
The best trader I know, mentioned a news Event will probably trigger a trend, that could last a week or longer.
He specializes on momentum, created his own indies...will wait for the reaction of the news, and follow the instructions of his indi.
Needless to say he makes a ton of money, weekly..
He´s a specialist, like you probably, both skinning the poor cat in a differnet way.

Herés the thread .I personally learnt a lot from him
All the best.

https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=481007
  • #36
  • Edited 6:56am Oct 5, 2018 6:43am | Edited 6:56am
Quoting cuchuflito
{quote} Sounds really good Eco.Obviously you have the advantadge of your work experience on the "other side of the table". News and fundamentals move the market, but a good chartist can reflect those movements in his trading. The best trader I know, mentioned a news Event will probably trigger a trend, that could last a week or longer. He specializes on momentum, created his own indies...will wait for the reaction of the news, and follow the instructions of his indi. Needless to say he makes a ton of money, weekly.. He´s a specialist, like you probably,...
that's a good strategy because he requires a news catalyst to trigger a trade and that is definitely key to new trends starting. I guess he also utilises a very rich trade management process which to me is the keystone element of my profitability.

I have a side project that i want to kick off and that includes readdressing technical analysis but using news as a filter for a scalping strategy. The premise is to find a correlation with the quality of technical signals on very short time frames (5 mins) in the immediate aftermath of news and then apply a countdown timer that effectively implies a diminishing probability as time goes by after the event. In other words say today's wage numbers are worse than expected as a hypothetical example. This should trigger dollar weakness (for those interested the wage number today is by far more important than the employment number). This would typically trigger a trade for me but in this side project i want to look at the potential to also apply a technical strategy on short time frames for scalping. This all hinges off research into there being any difference in the probability of an outcome post news. what i am looking for is my research uncovering say a 50% win rate outside of a news window and then during the news window it increasing to say 70% or more. This is all just theory at this time and i have yet to make time to start it as i am fairly busy at work but it will happen nonetheless at some point. Maybe i'll start a thread on it. I am not a fan of probability trading but if there is a correlation there and it implies a viable strategy then i will still enter my usual trades but additionally look to scalp. who knows maybe i'll join the TA club with my own twist at some point.
  • #37
  • Oct 28, 2018 12:00am Oct 28, 2018 12:00am
Quoting jmn5611
5. I never, ever, talk about trading outside of this forum or family and friends who have demonstrated that they can at least follow CNBC. If a trader does not do this, they will find beggars at their doorstep. DO NOT DO IT.
I did this mistake by telling my relatives when I first started studying forex. Since I am relatively smarter than them they thought that I would crack the market code very easily and would start printing money soon. They were ready to invest a few dollars and receive some thousands of dollars of profit per month. Now they are quite disappointed as I am nowhere near profitable even after five years since I started trading.
Videsha Mudal Welenda
  • #38
  • Oct 28, 2018 6:13am Oct 28, 2018 6:13am
Quoting VanTharp
{quote} I did this mistake by telling my relatives when I first started studying forex. Since I am relatively smarter than them they thought that I would crack the market code very easily and would start printing money soon. They were ready to invest a few dollars and receive some thousands of dollars of profit per month. Now they are quite disappointed as I am nowhere near profitable even after five years since I started trading.
It sounds like you may have created unnecessary pressure on yourself. Not ideal when trading so you must get rid of it, tell them to back off until your ready. After 5 years of no man's land it may be time to step away from the charts for a few weeks or months. Instead imagine everything you've learn & experienced in your head. Take your time. Try to figure out subconsciously what your doing wrong, it may be simple or complex. You might need to 'reset', come back to it with a different frame of mind.

Good luck.
who dares wins
  • #39
  • Oct 31, 2018 7:06pm Oct 31, 2018 7:06pm
Great thread.

Trading is usually a lonely profession because of so many reasons. Most of us profitable traders are very ambitious and obsessive. It requires dedication and obsession to study the charts. It can be very stressful to make trades, and especially when handling losses. And once you get an edge, you wont want to share it to other people because that's the result of years of effort, sacrifice and stress.

When you are a loser and not making any money, you will be ridiculed and mocked. But once you make nice money, people may just want you to teach them how to make money.
  • #40
  • Oct 31, 2018 7:10pm Oct 31, 2018 7:10pm
Quoting VanTharp
{quote} I did this mistake by telling my relatives when I first started studying forex. Since I am relatively smarter than them they thought that I would crack the market code very easily and would start printing money soon. They were ready to invest a few dollars and receive some thousands of dollars of profit per month. Now they are quite disappointed as I am nowhere near profitable even after five years since I started trading.
That's really a mistake haha.

Taking losses is still very stressful for me, even after years of trading. But telling somebody that you are losing is even more stressful.
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