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  • #4,141
  • May 31, 2017 3:16am May 31, 2017 3:16am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} What you are saying is not lost on me, I understand but what I'm saying is that side of things does not sway my thinking one bit. I'm saying I have been around and among them long enough to have my own opinion of why I don't like them in general. The point you made to Ross about their urges has been clearly demonstrated by the likes of the grooming gangs, Rotherham, etc has that been orchestrated by CIA/MI5 ?
Not saying I like Muslims either just that there is a reason TPTB want us to hate them, and although I dislike them in general I also have met some who are just the same as us. For instance I recently went to the wedding of one of my daughters Uni friends in France - Her father is Muslim but the wedding was no different to any I have ever been to(except for the alcohol).

We can't use our dislike of mulims in general to justify another illegal war in ME. Yep there are lots of sfb muslims but there are also a lot of christian sfb's I hate even more, unfortunately we tend to elect our sfb's to rule over us.

And there are many very different versions of Islam, we must be careful not to conflate them all into one hate group.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #4,142
  • May 31, 2017 4:13am May 31, 2017 4:13am
Quoting Magog
{quote} Ok let me put this another way - The Manchester bomber was 22 yrs old. Cast your mind back to when you were in your 20's - Coz when I was 22 there was only one thing that consumed my every waking moment apart from cars and concerts . That was knickers - I wanted to get in the knickers of every female I knew(and some I didn't) - My mates were all the same - it's all we talked about - all the time. Religion wasn't even on my radar and I never carried my passport unless I was going to Benidorm to meet more ''knickers'' - Was I abnormal or should...
That's why he did it, to get his 21 virgins in heaven!
  • #4,143
  • May 31, 2017 4:26am May 31, 2017 4:26am
Quoting Magog
{quote} If my theory is correct then yes. There is an awful lot in the media atm about muslims and what evil ppl they are - Why? Think abt all the wars that have ever been - we had to hate the Germans to start WW1/2 we had to hate Saddam, Assad and Quadaffi to start the gulf wars We had to hate Russia to start the cold war - Before TPTB can start a war they need to get the sheople to hate someone/thing. Now we ALL hate muslims - Iran is 95% muslim and lots of politico's are already linking Iran to the terrorist atrocities - Iran has been designated...
Problems I have.

1. I have never seen anything at all, and I mean anything, about how muslims are evil coming from the main stream media. In fact I have seen the exact opposite, MSM are at pains to highlight that not all muslims are blowing people up, to show another side of muslims. After the Manchester bombing I remember seeing how muslim taxi drivers were helping people in the panic etc.

2. We never hated the Germans before WW1, or even before WW2. Remember it was Russia who collaborated with the Nazi's to annex Poland (Germany got half, Russia the other half). The cold war was a clash of civilizations, Stalin was a ally out of necessity nothing more. He was a ruthless dictator. Take your point about Iraq 2.0.

3. You posted a link yesterday about how the US government was saying Iran was responsible for 9/11, but it was the US courts that issued a penalty for Iran, not the whitehouse or congress. It was Obama who signed the Iran deal, who lifted sanctions with Iran and allowed them to start taking a fuller role in the international markets again - that's not the actions of an administration looking to go to war, but rather to avoid war. I also understand that the 9/11 commission said Iran wasn't in any way responsible for 9/11.

4. I don't think anyone wants war with Iran, however this was the country who is trying to develop nukes, and is hostile to a range of other countries in the area.

5. Maybe the mind control is real (I doubt it). But if anything we are being convinced that Islam is NOT "evil".
  • #4,144
  • May 31, 2017 4:35am May 31, 2017 4:35am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Fair comment Jen but here is my situation which is probably not that unusual. My Old Man is 90, he was boy sailor on Atlantic Convoys during WW2, he continued to go to sea post war then found his way into construction and worked until he was 76, he used to lie about his age towards the end of his working life because he loved to work and still fit as a butchers dog and looked young for his years. When he eventually retired he started to go downhill but remained independent up until about 2.5 years ago. He has Parkinson's disease and Alzheimer's,...
Yes, I understand, it's not fair, but it's not fair during your working life either. You can be a slave to the system, commute in cattle trucks into London for decades, work all the hours, not see your kids etc. whereas the lazy shit on benefits lives better than you, eats pizza and watches Jeremy Kyle... What is the answer to that? We all drop to the lowest common denominator?

"Managing financially" is purely subjective. It means something very different nowadays to what it meant in the 70's or during the war. I am a bit of a traditionalist - I would rather be with my kids and go without than farm them off to some nursery and work long hours just to have a nice house, cars, holidays. It's priorities. I have seen babies about 6 months old at nurseries, crying their little hearts out wanting their mothers - it's not right. You never get that time back with your children. The government tries really hard to get mothers back to work because they want the extra tax income, with no thought to the children. I am really critical of our culture here in that respect. We are very anti children compared to the the attitudes in Europe. I guess it's the Catholic thing.
  • #4,145
  • May 31, 2017 5:12am May 31, 2017 5:12am
Quoting verv
{quote} Problems I have. 1. I have never seen anything at all, and I mean anything, about how muslims are evil coming from the main stream media. In fact I have seen the exact opposite, MSM are at pains to highlight that not all muslims are blowing people up, to show another side of muslims. After the Manchester bombing I remember seeing how muslim taxi drivers were helping people in the panic etc. 2. We never hated the Germans before WW1, or even before WW2. Remember it was Russia who collaborated with the Nazi's to annex Poland...
Agree it's not in ya face but we are getting the message from somewhere ,

Muslim hate crime 'rises 65% in London' - BBC News (https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiH5IDK8JnUAhVLIcAKHbFPASQQFgg6MAM&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fav%2Fuk-england-london-29424165%2Fmuslim-hate-crime-rises-65-in-london&usg=AFQjCNG7tNrrciBXBbkwRH57rrGxMxF3bA&sig2=j6xMJrgLnLxTRGNeOqLR0A)

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london.../muslim-hate-crime-rises-65-in-london (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-london.../muslim-hate-crime-rises-65-in-london)
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #4,146
  • May 31, 2017 5:19am May 31, 2017 5:19am
EU wants another billion from the UK next year. Ha, trying to squeeze all they can out before they sink! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4557108/Hand-1bn-EU-chiefs-tell-Britain.html
  • #4,147
  • Edited 6:09am May 31, 2017 5:54am | Edited 6:09am
Quoting verv
{quote} Problems I have. 1. I have never seen anything at all, and I mean anything, about how muslims are evil coming from the main stream media. In fact I have seen the exact opposite, MSM are at pains to highlight that not all muslims are blowing people up, to show another side of muslims. After the Manchester bombing I remember seeing how muslim taxi drivers were helping people in the panic etc. 2. We never hated the Germans before WW1, or even before WW2. Remember it was Russia who collaborated with the Nazi's to annex Poland (Germany got half,...
2. We never hated the Germans before WW1, or even before WW2.
You are right we didn't hate the Germans before WW1 and TPTB had to use a lot of propoganda to justify the war and get us to hate them. It's very difficult to get ppl to kill other ppl they like so they have to get us to hate our enemy and we used lots of propoganda to do that.
https://www.bl.uk/world-war-one/themes/propaganda
Stalin was a ally out of necessity nothing more. He was a ruthless dictator. Yep I think it was Patton who said we fought the wrong enemy but I won't get into that here.
it was the US courts that issued a penalty for Iran, Could be wrong but I thought the courts were part of the govt

Senate Panel Approves Stiff Iran Sanctions and Says Russia Is Next Most wars have started with sanctions.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/25/world/middleeast/iran-sanctions-senate-foreign-relations.html?_r=0

4. I don't think anyone wants war with Iran, however this was the country who is trying to develop nukes, and is hostile to a range of other countries in the area Not sure there is any evidence that Iran wants or is trying to develop nukes, but wouldn't blame them if they were. When Was the Last Time Iran Started a War? 18th Century - http://www.unz.com/isteve/when-was-last-time-iran-started-war/

5. Maybe the mind control is real (I doubt it). Google MKUltra - its been around since the 50's. do you remember lsd - that was a mind control drug developed by CIA as part of their mind control experiments.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #4,148
  • May 31, 2017 5:58am May 31, 2017 5:58am
Quoting jen101
EU wants another billion from the UK next year. Ha, trying to squeeze all they can out before they sink! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4557108/Hand-1bn-EU-chiefs-tell-Britain.html
Think this is where the rubber hits the road and T Maybe gets to show her true colours.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #4,149
  • May 31, 2017 7:24am May 31, 2017 7:24am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} this is very short sighted of you with Jeremy we will get a bad deal for leaving the EU this we lead to long term damage to the country with the Witch you will just lose out short term once we have the negotiation for Brexit sorted we can vote for Labour and they can reverse policies we dislike keep in mind i'm basically losing my inheritance and it's the only inheritance me are my girlfriend will receive but comparing this to the long term damage comrade Corbyn will do to this country it's the best option just think long term and it's a...
Ok, I relented. I also read the main points summary for the two manifestos, which are accessible in the middle of this article.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/29/tax-homes-treble-labour-plans-land-value-tax/

The statement concerning old-age care is written more sensibly/understandably there.

Quoting verv
{quote} I don't particularly like Mays wealth tax either, unfortunately it will be the prudent that suffers. There is another side to this though, the baby boomer generation gave themselves lots of 'free' stuff; free education for a long time, free healthcare, pension at 65.
The pension was introduced after WW2, the baby boomers hadn't been born then. I did enjoy free University education, but my father was means-tested and had to contribute to my maintenance (which really cut him).

Quote
People like me (and your kids) will have to work longer and pay more tax so that wealthy older people can have free social care after retiring at 65. That's not fair either. No matter how you cut it, someone is getting screwed with the inevitable social care reforms. Don't think for a second comrade Corbyn won't come after your wealth either, he's coming to give 'free' stuff to everyone and nothing is safe.
Wealthy older people have their income taxed. I am not many years off receiving state pension (£155 per week) and when that arrives I will pay lower-rate (20% ?) tax on all of it. If HMRC manages to draw attention to income from ISAs I may have to start paying higher-rate tax especially if I maintain the growth rates....
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #4,150
  • May 31, 2017 7:53am May 31, 2017 7:53am
Quoting Magog
{quote} If my theory is correct then yes. There is an awful lot in the media atm about muslims and what evil ppl they are - Why? Think abt all the wars that have ever been - we had to hate the Germans to start WW1/2 we had to hate Saddam, Assad and Quadaffi to start the gulf wars We had to hate Russia to start the cold war - Before TPTB can start a war they need to get the sheople to hate someone/thing. Now we ALL hate muslims - Iran is 95% muslim and lots of politico's are already linking Iran to the terrorist atrocities - Iran has been designated...
Last night I watched Fahrenheit 911 It confirmed everything I already knew and filled in a few holes.
Discount nothing. Assumption is the mother of disastrous fuck-ups.

WW1 was a disastrous mess, who killed Franz Ferdinand, that's who started WW1 ... and you can't blame the CIA for that one.

WW2 was started by a bunch of Eugenicists, who were too stupid not to know that you should only hold one tiger-tail at a time.
That was a close call too, they nearly had nukes first.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #4,151
  • May 31, 2017 7:55am May 31, 2017 7:55am
Quoting Magog
{quote} 2. We never hated the Germans before WW1, or even before WW2. You are right we didn't hate the Germans before WW1 and TPTB had to use a lot of propoganda to justify the war and get us to hate them. It's very difficult to get ppl to kill other ppl they like so they have to get us to hate our enemy and we used lots of propoganda to do that. https://www.bl.uk/world-war-one/themes/propaganda Stalin was a ally out of necessity nothing more. He was a ruthless dictator. Yep I think it was Patton who said we fought the wrong enemy but...
2) We can talk about all the propaganda used to drive war time recruitment, but we didn't go to war because of the propaganda, we went to war because of prior alliances that until then had sought to promote stability in Europe.

The US government has multiple branches including the courts, but I said the whitehouse and congress - the most important foreign policy arm of the government. Just because some civil court in New York issues a claim, doesn't mean it is the policy of the other branches of government that Iran was responsible. That distinction needs to be made clear. I don't even think the court blamed Iran for plotting 9/11, rather it said it didn't do enough to stop it. These actions by the New York civil court where on Obama's watch, Obama also signed a deal with Iran - that doesn't sound like an administration trying to blame Iran for 9/11. The 9/11 commission, published by the US government said "We have found no evidence that Iran or Hezbollah were aware of the planning for what later became the 9/11 attacks." For us to believe that the US government has been trying to blame Iran, we must also ignore other evidence which suggests the administration doesn't blame Iran. You cannot take one fact in isolation like that.

4) They admitted to enriching Uranium, attempted to conceal the fact they were, and refused to stop. You can use enriched uranium for peaceful means, or to make a bomb. It has been alleged that they have been enriching uranium for both. I have no idea when Iran last started a war, I know what they have said in respect to Israel.

5) I know about MKUltra, all of my stoner friends used to talk about this stuff lol. I don't believe it can be applied in the manner you are suggesting, nor has it been applied.
  • #4,152
  • May 31, 2017 8:15am May 31, 2017 8:15am
Quoting verv
{quote} 2) We can talk about all the propaganda used to drive war time recruitment, but we didn't go to war because of the propaganda, we went to war because of prior alliances that until then had sought to promote stability in Europe. The US government has multiple branches including the courts, but I said the whitehouse and congress - the most important foreign policy arm of the government. Just because some civil court in New York issues a claim, doesn't mean it is the policy of the other branches of government that Iran was responsible. That...
Think we'll just have to agree to disagree V - btw - did you also kn0w that there is only one country in the world with nukes that still refuses to sign the NPT and that makes it illegal for the US to give them aid but they still do anyway.
Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence
  • #4,153
  • May 31, 2017 8:33am May 31, 2017 8:33am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} Ok, I relented. I also read the main points summary for the two manifestos, which are accessible in the middle of this article. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/05/29/tax-homes-treble-labour-plans-land-value-tax/ The statement concerning old-age care is written more sensibly/understandably there. {quote} The pension was introduced after WW2, the baby boomers hadn't been born then. I did enjoy free University education, but my father was means-tested and had to contribute to my maintenance (which really cut him). {quote}Wealthy...
Yes you are right about when the pension started, it wasn't your generation who initiated that. I think it is fair to say though, that your generation is going to get the most benefit from that 'free stuff'.

Here is a quote from the telegraph

"The facts speak for themselves. More than 80pc of the nation's 6.7trn in wealth is owned by baby boomers (those born between 1946 and 1964). Collectively, the country owns 2.6trn in shares and savings and those aged 50 to 64 own 1trn of this. A third of the 1.8trn held in pension funds is owned by this age group (and a further quarter is owned by those aged between 45 and 50). And they own 40pc of the 2.5trn tied up in property. In fact, property has been such a staggeringly good investment for this generation that one in five baby boomers owns a second home.


As Will Hutton of the Work Foundation and a baby boomer himself pointed out: "Having enjoyed a life of free love, free school meals, free universities, defined benefit pensions, mainly full employment and a 40-year-long housing boom, [the baby boomers] are bequeathing their children sky-high house prices, debts and shrivelled pensions. A 60 year-old today is a very privileged and lucky human being."


The demographics of a longer life expectancy, combined with a reduced birth rate means that there are going to be fewer workers per pensioner in the future. State pension is after all paid from the national insurance contributions of current works.

Someone has to pay for the cost of that care. Either the boomers themselves, or the younger generation through either increased national insurance contributions, or making the state pension age older. I know that the way my pension has been structured recently has changed drastically, I'm ashamed to say I don't even know how either lol.
  • #4,154
  • May 31, 2017 8:36am May 31, 2017 8:36am
Quoting Magog
....5. Maybe the mind control is real (I doubt it). Google MKUltra - its been around since the 50's. do you remember lsd - that was a mind control drug developed by CIA as part of their mind control experiments.
For the lazy:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #4,155
  • May 31, 2017 8:40am May 31, 2017 8:40am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} For the lazy:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra

Just a warning about wikipedia, some of the stuff on it is absolute rubbish lol.

I landed on a page which I knew quite a lot about recently, and it was a complete shambles. The page had been hijacked by some quacks who was spouting unverified conspiracy theory bullshit.

I signed up to wikipedia and flagged all of it, it then got subsequently changed. The quality of the references is very important with wikipedia articles. I think everybody knows this already.
  • #4,156
  • May 31, 2017 9:10am May 31, 2017 9:10am
Quoting verv
.... Someone has to pay for the cost of that care. Either the boomers themselves, or the younger generation through either increased national insurance contributions, or making the state pension age older. I know that the way my pension has been structured recently has changed drastically, I'm ashamed to say I don't even know how either lol.
You mean .... they didn't save up our contributions over all those years !?

What were they doing !?

....don't answer that .....I can guess
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #4,157
  • May 31, 2017 9:31am May 31, 2017 9:31am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} You mean .... they didn't save up our contributions over all those years !? What were they doing !? ....don't answer that .....I can guess

Yeh the system is fucked. Prudent people get fucked. Socialism encourages high living and discourages any incentive to provide and take care of yourself - because if you do hello tax man.
  • #4,158
  • May 31, 2017 10:03am May 31, 2017 10:03am
Despite wobbles of late, I think it will be a resounding Tory victory next week.
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  • #4,159
  • May 31, 2017 10:04am May 31, 2017 10:04am
Quoting verv
{quote} Yeh the system is fucked. Prudent people get fucked. Socialism encourages high living and discourages any incentive to provide and take care of yourself - because if you do hello tax man.
If Corbyn gets in the SNP are going to pressure him to have pan UK £0.50 tax rate.

Labour drawn up secret plans to throw open Britain’s doors to unskilled migrants http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4558196/Jeremy-Corbyn-does-not-rule-unskilled-migrant-visa.html#ixzz4iesLBTgp All on a living wage (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4558196/Jeremy-Corbyn-does-not-rule-unskilled-migrant-visa.html#ixzz4iesLBTgp)

All will be on £10 per hour making the economy as uncompetitive as fluck and when all the wealth creators leave the country, all middle income earners will be crippled with this tax
  • #4,160
  • May 31, 2017 10:22am May 31, 2017 10:22am
Quoting jen101
Despite Tory wobbles of late, I think it will be a resounding Tory victory next week. {image} {image} {image}
It is by no means in the bag and I am deeply concerned that Corbyn is driving the agenda. The Conservatives need to do something drastic to pull it back
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