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  • #3,421
  • Apr 28, 2017 10:58am Apr 28, 2017 10:58am
Quoting verv
Unusual question. What are people's thoughts on the Madeline McCann disappearance which is now back in the news?
Whatever has happened to the child is very sad without question. My first thoughts when this happened were "What the hell were the parents thinking leaving kids that age alone". I still think that. There is no way I would ever have left my kids to sit in a restaurant across the street. Anyone that says to me "that is harsh", I say crap. The proof is in what happened, they (the parents) were clearly too far away to notice or hear that there was a problem. Some say but they are suffering and have regrets about that. I say you can't take chances like that with young kids so they have to live with the consequences of their neglect. I'm not even convinced they weren't involved in some way.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,422
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:00am Apr 28, 2017 11:00am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} I think the Senator and Carlton had the same chassis, a slightly different outer skin and a bit more 'luxury' inside for the Senator. Plus I'm not sure that the 3-litre 6-cyl was available in a Carlton .... however Lotus did a twin-turbo version with some chassis tweaks. I haven't looked lately but I heard the price-minimum for the Lotus version was around 15k and then they started to go up in value!
Mine was regular 1800 petrol and about £800 I think at the time but fine motor.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,423
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:08am Apr 28, 2017 11:08am
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Whatever has happened to the child is very sad without question. My first thoughts when this happened were "What the hell were the parents thinking leaving kids that age alone". I still think that. There is no way I would ever have left my kids to sit in a restaurant across the street. Anyone that says to me "that is harsh", I say crap. The proof is in what happened, they (the parents) were clearly too far away to notice or hear that there was a problem. Some say but they are suffering and have regrets about that. I say you can't take chances...
I totally agree. It's like putting your kids in the car with no seat belts. Most of the time nothing will happen, but if it does, it is your fault. So you never ever take the risk.
  • #3,424
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:09am Apr 28, 2017 11:09am
Quoting verv
{quote} https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=9808794#post9808794
Now I'm lost. What has God got to do with morality got to do with Madeleine McCann?
  • #3,425
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:11am Apr 28, 2017 11:11am
Quoting verv
{quote} I replied to DrManhatten's post where it said: "The problem with Post Modern theories is that if there is no universal Truth, how can anyone objectively criticize human acts such as the Holocaust, slavery, forced female genital mutilation?" Which of course implies that there must be a universal truth if we are to objectively judge. ...hope it is clear now how this came up initially. Does God have a role in morality, depends if he exists or not, and anyone claiming perfect knowledge on that topic is talking shit.
Well, I think most decent people would agree that hurting others is pretty damn immoral.
  • #3,426
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:14am Apr 28, 2017 11:14am
Quoting jen101
{quote} I totally agree. It's like putting your kids in the car with no seat belts. Most of the time nothing will happen, but if it does, it is your fault. So you never ever take the risk.
What struck me as odd at the time is social services never stepped in. The parents were/are medical professionals but showed neglect in leaving 3 very young children alone. If that had been wayne & waynetta type parents would social services have got involved ? I don't ever recall any child protection service dragging them over the coals on that issue.
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,427
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:16am Apr 28, 2017 11:16am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Well, I think most decent people would agree that hurting others is pretty damn immoral.
Most normal and sane people, including some of those (but not all) who want to live in the 7th century
  • #3,428
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:49am Apr 28, 2017 11:49am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Now I'm lost. What has God got to do with morality got to do with Madeleine McCann?
Opps, sorry wrong post. I meant to quote the first reply to DrManhatten.


Quoting jen101
{quote} Well, I think most decent people would agree that hurting others is pretty damn immoral.
yes don't get me wrong, I agree
  • #3,429
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:51am Apr 28, 2017 11:51am
Quoting Devauxt
{quote} Most normal and sane people, including some of those (but not all) who want to live in the 7th century
Even dogs know that hurting others is wrong. So why do so many people need the God rules? Funny thing is every God has a different set of rules. Then people fight over the right and wrongs of those rules.

Without religion, most of the wars in history would not have happened. Where was God and morality in that?
  • #3,430
  • Apr 28, 2017 11:59am Apr 28, 2017 11:59am
On the mention here of FGM, I want to ask, why is FGM wrong, but circumcising baby boys ok? It is still mutilating another human without consent.

(I watched a circumcision operation on TV last night, on a grown man )
  • #3,431
  • Apr 28, 2017 2:07pm Apr 28, 2017 2:07pm
Hi STEW
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,432
  • Edited 2:25pm Apr 28, 2017 2:08pm | Edited 2:25pm
Quoting jen101
On the mention here of FGM, I want to ask, why is FGM wrong, but circumcising baby boys ok? It is still mutilating another human without consent. (I watched a circumcision operation on TV last night, on a grown man )
Anyone comes near the tackle with a scalpel and that is enough to cause a war

https://youtu.be/dqiypMz5xGo
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,433
  • Apr 28, 2017 2:28pm Apr 28, 2017 2:28pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} Anyone comes near the tackle with a scalpel and that is enough to cause a war https://youtu.be/dqiypMz5xGo
Ugh. I mean the music choice.
  • #3,434
  • Apr 28, 2017 2:40pm Apr 28, 2017 2:40pm
90's anthem
https://youtu.be/syiNmDS3Ehg
  • #3,435
  • Apr 28, 2017 3:00pm Apr 28, 2017 3:00pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} Ugh. I mean the music choice.
I thought it was rather apt considering the topic

Now for a proper anthem !!


https://youtu.be/x61QWSdZUsE
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,436
  • Apr 28, 2017 3:40pm Apr 28, 2017 3:40pm
Quoting Stu Effex
{quote} I thought it was rather apt considering the topic Now for a proper anthem !! https://youtu.be/x61QWSdZUsE
Awful noise, Stu!
https://youtu.be/mOmB8CMasdo?list=RDsyiNmDS3Ehg
  • #3,437
  • Apr 28, 2017 4:11pm Apr 28, 2017 4:11pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} Awful noise, Stu! https://youtu.be/mOmB8CMasdo?list=RDsyiNmDS3Ehg
Hey Jen I'll have to think twice about one of your parties !

https://youtu.be/VdphvuyaV_I

Have Good Weekend Folks
Once You See, You Can't Unsee But You Will Get The Odd Poke In The Eye
  • #3,438
  • Edited 1:45am Apr 29, 2017 1:18am | Edited 1:45am
Quoting verv
{quote} Good post. I don't know much about post modernism. My only comment is that in the absence of any god, there really can't be absolute truth on issues such as morality, can there?
Well to answer your question, Truth as you well know is a subjective term, so it all depends on the context which it is referred as such, but whether "absolute Truth" even exists is something altogether absent of definition, and has been subject for debate for as long as humans have been around. But in a broader sense there are common truths that try to get close to absolute truth, some with a God and some without. Ones with out a God would probably be identified as far eastern religions, and some with singular plural , as in "God" and "only one God" can be inferred as such, are narrowed down to two specific religious beliefs. Whereas the plural use of God's suggest something completely different in a cultures belief system. My take on this subject is more to do with social behaviors of a dominant culture. When a dominant culture for reasons derived from prosperity, there arrives a need to institute a set of moral codes in which a society should live by, is more to do with with nature of politics of a given culture to instill a common frame work for social order, then actually trying to answer the question of absolute truth. In other words if a culture decides Christianity satisfies that definition it then becomes widely accepted, because the dominant culture says so.

The term "God" itself is also highly subjective as well, and an entirely different debate, but it all depends how a culture defines the term that gives weight to it's meaning altogether. It my opinion language itself is altogether outdated, especially in religions like Christianity. For example, Why is it, according to Christians is the term "God" gender specific? How could God be defined in human terms? Or for that matter put a human face on "God"? My problem is not so much about the Christian belief system, but it's presumption of absolute truth and the methods by which they proselytize those beliefs. How can their Holy book that was written by man inspired by God not be subject to interpretation? These questions persist and IMO Christianity has failed to evolve to be open for such debates, as well as being inclusive for considering evolving questions we as a species are always striving to find answers to.

Just to be clear, I am using Christianity as one example to illustrate my earlier point of language being outdated, as I am sure there are many other faiths that I can use as well. Christianity has served a purpose (a positive one I might add) of providing Western Democracies a moral Blue Print to follow, thus is what the dominant culture advocated as being absolute Truth that became widely accepted. The problem with Post Modernism's premise as I previously outlined, is that it negates the debate for Truth altogether, and thus it's presumptions is predicated on Truth not existing.
  • #3,439
  • Apr 29, 2017 1:32am Apr 29, 2017 1:32am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Even dogs know that hurting others is wrong. So why do so many people need the God rules? Funny thing is every God has a different set of rules. Then people fight over the right and wrongs of those rules. Without religion, most of the wars in history would not have happened. Where was God and morality in that?
That is a highly debatable premise you put forth Jen. God or so called Gods don't create conflict, man does. My argument is not so much to refute the merits in which you ask this question, because it is a legitimate question, I just think it has to be put into proper context, defined more specifically what God's, what religion, what culture are you referring to? Certainly if you are a believer of Western democracy and it's values in which you submit to, then it can be reasonably argued that it couldn't have been achieved without a foundation in which such beliefs is based on. In this case it happens to be Christianity. Is it that simple to blame man's conflicts as being God related as the root of those conflicts? I think not, regardless if you choose to believe in a God, Gods, or not, as there are other contributing factors other than the belief of God itself that creates such conflicts, the value of a spiritual belief will continue to persist long after we are gone from walking this earth it's in our DNA as a species.
  • #3,440
  • Apr 29, 2017 3:25am Apr 29, 2017 3:25am
Quoting DrManhatten
Is it that simple to blame man's conflicts as being God related as the root of those conflicts? .
Yes. Is it not a certain God who supposedly advocate kill all infidels?
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