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How to make a living with trading?

  • #341
  • Apr 2, 2017 7:47am Apr 2, 2017 7:47am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} I'm sure you find only fun traders here, don't expect serious answers btw sorry to correct you, but stocks are not lower risk as nobody forces you to use high leverage.
I was hopeful there were some lurking around.
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #342
  • Apr 2, 2017 8:26am Apr 2, 2017 8:26am
Quoting Artcool
All strategies, whether manual or fundamental, can be replicated by a bot. If a trader doesn't try to code his strategy, that could be : He doesn't know how to code and doesn't feel comfortable in giving the rules to some coder He is afraid to see that his strategy is not profitable in the long term which will destroy his confidence and bring him back to step 0. He is bored in his life and unconsciously wants to keep himself busy every day. His ego wants him to believe that he has some special power that will keep him out of bad trades.
you don't have a clue about programming pattern recognition software, don't you?
  • #343
  • Apr 2, 2017 8:53am Apr 2, 2017 8:53am
Quoting Paintomaker
{quote} you don't have a clue about programming pattern recognition software, don't you?

I think I do...

If you think you cannot do it, maybe someone else can.

You just need to define what you want. If your system has to avoid consolidation, then you must be able to define what is a consolidation. Otherwise, your system has a part of discretion. Therefore, it cannot be called a system.

For example, John Ross has attempted to define what a consolidation is, by counting the number of bars and comparing the open and close of those bars. Everything else can be.

Robots can pilot planes, rockets, spacial shuttles...I think it's much more complicated than recognizing a pattern on a 2D chart, knowing that each is just 4 numbers...That's it.
Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
  • #344
  • Apr 2, 2017 8:57am Apr 2, 2017 8:57am
Quoting GuyBaker
{quote} With great difficulty, I guess it would come down to introducing some kind of randomness and testing those "mutations" against desired behaviour, an evolution machine as it were.
This is a very good point in my view. Creativity in the kitchen came pretty much only from misunderstand orders, misinterpretation of recipes and errors. Maybe there is some ultimate creative force, but lots of what we have today is due to luck as well as trial and error.
Demo only
  • #345
  • Edited 9:30am Apr 2, 2017 9:11am | Edited 9:30am
Quoting Artcool
{quote} I think I do... If you think you cannot do it, maybe someone else can. You just need to define what you want. If your system has to avoid consolidation, then you must be able to define what is a consolidation. Otherwise, your system has a part of discretion. Therefore, it cannot be called a system. For example, John Ross has attempted to define what a consolidation is, by counting the number of bars and comparing the open and close of those bars. Everything else can be. Robots can pilot planes, rockets, spacial shuttles...I think it's much...
some systems involve a vast number of variables. Those variables should be weighted by an expert, a human. It's very complicated to replicate what is the mind of a person, our brain can compute at the same time many more variables than a computer will do and it's very difficult for an expert to give a conscient value to those variables.

I will put you an example, I can differentiate the same face no matter the light, the expression, the orientation or the haircut, but just try to code a machine that can do that as well as me. Would you say that I don't have a system for face recognition because I can't code a computer to do it? I give you the example of face recognition because the best AI experts in the world work on that and it's decades from being close to a human.

I personally use robots for trade entries and trade management.
  • #346
  • Apr 2, 2017 11:14am Apr 2, 2017 11:14am
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
Nice twist...talking about creative things. Thats coool...

I agree with some previous post...ur robots/ea can only look at things at their face value, creativity comes from human mind and that part can't be coded into machines . Human brain storage capacity vs robots? Unimaginable
As long as human beings are making robots and are involved in AI projects, there is no chance for these machine to get ahead of humans in creativity.

Peace
Attached Image
I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #347
  • Apr 2, 2017 1:29pm Apr 2, 2017 1:29pm
Quoting hak444
Nice twist...talking about creative things. Thats coool... I agree with some previous post...ur robots/ea can only look at things at their face value, creativity comes from human mind and that part can't be coded into machines . Human brain storage capacity vs robots? Unimaginable As long as human beings are making robots and are involved in AI projects, there is no chance for these machine to get ahead of humans in creativity. Peace {image}

Well I think for now, creativity is in the realm of human kind as I explained above, however if nature can give rise to "machines" through evolution that are creative, so can we through design, and so in the end, although it may be a long way off I think there will be truly thinking creative machines.

Also as a caveat to my thoughts on creativity, I suspect in trading, creativity is only useful at system design time, not during actual live trading, creativity is by its nature a trial an error process and the time for trial and error is not while you have money riding on the result.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #348
  • Apr 2, 2017 5:03pm Apr 2, 2017 5:03pm
Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} Explain to me please, how that "discretionary feel" improves my trading. A lot of traders go on and on with that kind of statements. From my experience the biggest part of that "feel" is traders own emotions. And every time i relied on my emotions I got burned. That is why trading is so hard, because controling emotions is hard. That means a trader must be always emotionally stable, every time and every moment when entering the position, sl, tp, money management, ... always. For me at least that is mission impossible. That's why i had some...

The point of the 'feelings' is to identify trade setups before the indicators/system send off signals. If you thoroughly understand your system and how it works then you can rely on your feelings before the system actually detects the changes (hence DISCRETIONARY feel). There is a big difference between 'feeling' and 'emotions'. Feelings can be intuition structured by logic. Emotions are just neurochemical responses to abstract stimuli.
"The fun is in the hunt. Not the kill."
  • #349
  • Apr 2, 2017 6:04pm Apr 2, 2017 6:04pm
I try to trade based on my analytics only, sometimes using the help of other sources. But in any case you should learn to analyse the market on your own, because then the chance of draining the deposit decreases by a lot. and in general, before letting forex into your life, you should thouroghly study it.
  • #350
  • Apr 2, 2017 11:19pm Apr 2, 2017 11:19pm
Quoting Redeflect
{quote} The point of the 'feelings' is to identify trade setups before the indicators/system send off signals. If you thoroughly understand your system and how it works then you can rely on your feelings before the system actually detects the changes (hence DISCRETIONARY feel). There is a big difference between 'feeling' and 'emotions'. Feelings can be intuition structured by logic. Emotions are just neurochemical responses to abstract stimuli.
I agree on feelings vs. emotions. I'm still not convinced though why one should not code an idea if it's codeable, but trade it manually instead. I can think of funnier things than sitting in front of a screen waiting for sth to happen and then click the mouse.
Besides, again, it's not as scalable as a robot. Discretion when making changes in the settings? Oh yes, totally.
Demo only
  • #351
  • Apr 3, 2017 1:11am Apr 3, 2017 1:11am
Quoting bg_sunny
{quote} I agree on feelings vs. emotions. I'm still not convinced though why one should not code an idea if it's codeable, but trade it manually instead. I can think of funnier things than sitting in front of a screen waiting for sth to happen and then click the mouse. Besides, again, it's not as scalable as a robot. Discretion when making changes in the settings? Oh yes, totally.

Exactly. If you remove all discretion from trading at execution time, which is what the discipline is supposed to be about, then you are best to execute using a robot, it is a no brainier, quite literally
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #352
  • Apr 3, 2017 3:01am Apr 3, 2017 3:01am
  •  hak444
  • | Joined Aug 2016 | Status: knowing is not enough,we must apply | 41 Posts
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} What robots lack in creativity they make up for speed and precision.

i agree
I can accept failure but i can't accept not trying. (Michael Jordan)
  • #353
  • Apr 3, 2017 3:11am Apr 3, 2017 3:11am
Quoting PiranoTrader
Hi, I've been trading for few years now and being "consistantly profitable" is not the biggest problem I have. The problem I have is with low trading capital. Some friends advised me to open a small live pamm account and connect it with trade explorer, myfxbook, fxstat, ... to prove that I can trade. So I did that a few months ago. As I was told getting the funds for consistant traders shouldn't be a problem ("the money will find you if you are good" I was told, hehe). But apparently it is a problem (at least for me) because I don't even know what...
Someone from a certain company pm me in FF to become their fund manager. I am about to give him response. Just keep on posting your results here. The money will come.
  • #354
  • Apr 3, 2017 3:28am Apr 3, 2017 3:28am
Quoting orangeRANGE
{quote} Someone from a certain company pm me in FF to become their fund manager. I am about to give him response. Just keep on posting your results here. The money will come.
When did you ever post any results?
Adriaaaaan
  • #355
  • Apr 3, 2017 4:15pm Apr 3, 2017 4:15pm
I believe that we should avoid expecting too much in early stage of our career. If we jump into the market and start expecting miracles then we will only suffer and end up losing badly. So when we don’t try to expect too much and just focus on performance then we will definitely do so much better and making profit will be hell a lot easier. So the choice is for us to make what we want to do.
  • #356
  • Edited Apr 4, 2017 2:26am Apr 3, 2017 5:00pm | Edited Apr 4, 2017 2:26am
Making a living with Forex trading is absolutely possible. You have to go slow, anyone who says they doubled their account in a week is just someone who got lucky and was not implementing proper bankroll management/other important tools.

what a 'living' is will be different for people. I am just starting out and making little 1 minute videos of my progress that you can see on my youtube channel 'StavFX'
Made purely to log my journey and speak to like minded traders.

I am not full time at it yet and have a job/system that allows me to know pretty much when a trade opportunity is presenting itself so i need to be in front of the charts.

even starting with 500, with a goal of increasing capital by just 5% a week. this is a more than achievable goal and does not require hours in front of the chart.
In around 70 weeks, you will be on 1000 a week if you increased your capital by 5% each week. Slow this down and give yourself 3 years even. when the average salary is around 350-500ish for a 40 hour work week.
Is waiting 3 years that bad of a thing? it comes around very quickly and the longer term positives far outweigh the 3 years needed to get there.

Just my opinion .

TL;DR - yes ofcourse making a living through forex is possible but it is not this magical get rich quick scheme. Time/discipline/mental aptitude is required, as in anything you wish to succeed at.
  • #357
  • Apr 4, 2017 2:21am Apr 4, 2017 2:21am
Hehehe, i see some comments in this thread that suggest I'm desperate or something. Far from that. Im excited as never before in my life, in a good way.
It is true that trading for a living with relatively small budget is hard, very hard. But that is also something that gives me confidence, not a lot of people is doing this for a living like I do. And after few years I'm still in profit, not burning my savings from my previous job.

Trading results are as expected so I have no doubt that I will succeed to make something out of it.
I'm just figuring out the best way where to turn in the future. And quite a few comments in this thread gave me some good options to think about

Thanks to all posters
  • #358
  • Apr 4, 2017 8:10am Apr 4, 2017 8:10am
Quoting brokerhack
I live in germany and I trade for a living. In Germany the average salary is 28-30 thousand Dollar a year. If you expect to increase your capital 50 % a year you need 60 000 $ + Drawdown Year 25 000 = 85 000 $ It was a hard time to gain enough money to live from trading. But it is possible
of course its possible. if you go in this realistic, all is possible. knowing math good and understand the numbers you calculate and you increase you chance of sucess by an extrem high factor. its nothing more like an math game if you do it many decades, like playing backgammon. i am from germany too.
  • #359
  • Apr 6, 2017 1:56am Apr 6, 2017 1:56am
Quoting orangeRANGE
{quote} Last month's trades (March 2017) {image}
is that a demo account?
  • #360
  • Apr 6, 2017 3:07am Apr 6, 2017 3:07am
This treat is sneaky way of promoting money managers
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