How to make a living with trading? | Page 17 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Do you make a living trading small timeframes? 58 replies

Do people actually make a living off of trading? 38 replies

Living in China, trading for a living 18 replies

(can) small accounts make a living ?! 611 replies

How can I make a living trading forex? 25 replies

Attachments: How to make a living with trading?
Exit Attachments

How to make a living with trading?

  • #321
  • Edited 3:44am Mar 31, 2017 2:54am | Edited 3:44am
Quoting guybaker
{quote} Well I have been trading for 10 years plus. I have done a lot on back testing manually, and then run the same test with my computer, it is always a long way out. If you can back test without confirmation bias, well done, but for me I prefer to use a computer because as well as being more accurate it is much much faster, indeed I like to test 10,000+ setups, doing that manually is an insurmountable task. Yes I am Quant style trader.
What you may not be aware of, and most other backtesters, is the math adjusts itself as more data is collected. Many traders will make statements like "Indicators are Lagging", LOL, when anyone can see they update on every tick, or candle, depending on the coding. Historical data resets itself against later data and gives you a picture that is true of yesterday, but not necessarily of "right now". This is why a lot of data "curve fitted" systems fail when live trading. Because the indicators are not lagging, and will change their shape as new data is introduced. What you see now, may not look the same tomorrow. The only effective trading strategy is one that can show you trades now, not trades from yesterday. Additionally, when you use lower settings on indicators, you can experience what I call flutter, or varying signals within the same candle. If you experience that, delete the indicator or change the settings. There is already enough confusion in the market. You do not need to head fake yourself.
You cannot be extraordinary by being normal
  • #322
  • Mar 31, 2017 4:51am Mar 31, 2017 4:51am
Quoting Artcool
All strategies, whether manual or fundamental, can be replicated by a bot. If a trader doesn't try to code his strategy, that could be : He doesn't know how to code and doesn't feel comfortable in giving the rules to some coder He is afraid to see that his strategy is not profitable in the long term which will destroy his confidence and bring him back to step 0. He is bored in his life and unconsciously wants to keep himself busy every day. His ego wants him to believe that he has some special power that will keep him out of bad trades.
95% can be automated yes, personally I had A LOT OF FUN programming and backtesting strategies which involve double tops, double bottoms, H&S, EW 1,2,3 a,b,c, fibo and any indicator I could find. you just can't program an ea that recognizes complex stuff like consolidations etc.
  • #323
  • Mar 31, 2017 5:07am Mar 31, 2017 5:07am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} 95% can be automated yes, personally I had A LOT OF FUN programming and backtesting strategies which involve double tops, double bottoms, H&S, EW 1,2,3 a,b,c, fibo and any indicator I could find. you just can't program an ea that recognizes complex stuff like consolidations etc.
it's hard to program humans to see consolidation let alone a robot!
It's in fear when people show what they truly value.
  • #324
  • Mar 31, 2017 5:42am Mar 31, 2017 5:42am
Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} For now i'm super excited about them. Do you have any own experience with them? I already linked my current account with them to see/test what ranking I get. I'm on their "rookie" level overall, but that is just because of "experience" (one of the attributes) so it is just a matter of time to improve to next levels. They also have "timing" attribute (buy and close timing) which correlates heavily with strategy long term profitability (as they say in their tutorial video). In that attribute my average score is 9.6 out of 10, which is 1st...
I do have experience with them but not with darwinia, I can tell you I've made 2 withdrawals (small ones, mind you, both under 5k) and received the money perfectly, and spreads are good, but I removed all the funds because I am currently learning a system that works with the Sydney opens (look at their opening times on Sunday, 5 minutes late) and I need a 6 daily candles broker now. Technical service and transparency is awesome, if I wasn't for the new system I switched to, I would stay on that broker 100%.

What I can tell you is that the people with high rank accounts get a lot of investors (just look at the ranking) and there are darwinia prices that are quite nice (I'm sure you saw the emails), and that means a % for you for every extra investor + extra prices if you can make it to the top. I'm sorry but I never investigated more about darwinia, I'm a lone wolf type of trader.

Good luck!
"Know thyself."
  • #325
  • Mar 31, 2017 6:12am Mar 31, 2017 6:12am
Quoting miau1
{quote} I do have experience with them but not with darwinia, I can tell you I've made 2 withdrawals (small ones, mind you, both under 5k) and received the money perfectly, and spreads are good, but I removed all the funds because I am currently learning a system that works with the Sydney opens (look at their opening times on Sunday, 5 minutes late) and I need a 6 daily candles broker now. Technical service and transparency is awesome, if I wasn't for the new system I switched to, I would stay on that broker 100%. What I can tell you is that the...
Thx for the info
  • #326
  • Mar 31, 2017 6:24am Mar 31, 2017 6:24am
U can try www.mql5.com . U can register as seller and sell your signal for a subscription fee starting from $20 a month or more.
Just browse through that website. It is a community of traders where they sell signals, EAs/Robots and indicators. If u have a good track record in your trading account, you will definitely get subscribers. There are guys with over a 100 t0 1000 subscribers at Roughly $30 a month per subscriber. That is a lot of money. If your account has good risk management, a low draw down, good profit percentage return per month and not so high risk, u should be fine. Goodluck bro
  • #327
  • Mar 31, 2017 12:31pm Mar 31, 2017 12:31pm
Quoting ensale
{quote} it's hard to program humans to see consolidation let alone a robot!
I think they're pretty clear to see and maybe not impossible to code but insanely hard.. which means you will literally go insane if you try coding it.
  • #328
  • Apr 1, 2017 10:14am Apr 1, 2017 10:14am
Hey guys, I've been trading for about 2 years or so. Im in in college ready to intern at an IB in the summer in the M&A group. However i love trading, and want to get into sales and trading. I've been scoruing the internet to find out just what exactly in the position of someone who trades currencies pairs like people on this website. In banks under their s&t division are desks that trade various instruments. Citi bank is known as an FX powerhouse that trades FX options. I dont know too much about trading options let alone trading them profitably. Could anyone help me out to let me know. Im thinking of trading fixed income in emerging market at the bank since they rake in serious commission.
  • #329
  • Apr 1, 2017 3:39pm Apr 1, 2017 3:39pm
Quoting nishallall97
Hey guys, I've been trading for about 2 years or so. Im in in college ready to intern at an IB in the summer in the M&A group. However i love trading, and want to get into sales and trading. I've been scoruing the internet to find out just what exactly in the position of someone who trades currencies pairs like people on this website. In banks under their s&t division are desks that trade various instruments. Citi bank is known as an FX powerhouse that trades FX options. I dont know too much about trading options let alone trading them profitably....
I (still) work at UBS in Switzerland. My experience with it is this: (I am not a trader, there is only some insignificant overlap with my current position and the traders)
Get a Bachelors degree and a Masters Degree in engineering. Get an internship. Maybe find out that it sucks, because you will not really have a book (i.e. you will not have let's say 100 Mio limit to trade gamble with.). Banks are cutting down on this. It's mostly market making, i.e. order matching.
From what I know RBS and Deutsche Bank have rather large trader teams, but especially Douche Bank is said to have ultra crappy infrastructure (read: IT systems from the 80s). You'll make more as an IT specialist for the trading floor it seems. I have seen contracts for daily CHF 1'500 as an IT Specialist for the trading floor at a local entity of this bank.


Maybe a prop firm will do? Tough Due diligence you have to do there. SMB Capital maybe? I don't know. Your call there.
What I can assure you is that banks have lost attractiveness as a place to be a trader.
Get on the buy side: Asset Managers, Hedge Funds. But there... puh.... good luck getting a Portfolio Manager position. (And then hold trades for weeks and months).

"Im thinking of trading fixed income in emerging market at the bank since they rake in serious commission."
Yeah, cause the spreads are effing high.

Frankly that last sentence makes me think you should get away from thinking that films like "Margin Call" are a real life representation of banking.

Look at a bank's income statement and balance sheet.
You'll see:
- It's huge
- Revenues are comparatively small
- Profit margins are low percentage wise
--> Margin for error is super low
--> Huge regulatory expenses (Pay the compliance staff and pay the inexplicably expensive IT implementation)

I wish you good luck. I also wish you to become a realist as soon as possible.
You love trading. You want to become a professional trader.
I love cooking. I went to become a professional cook and got the best in class diploma in Strasbourg, France. I never want to work as a cook again.
Think about it.
Don't make your love/your hobby your job.
Your job should be something that does not piss you off and than you can be good in.
Routine kills passion. Food for thought.

Peace.

EDIT:
Read this: https://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?t=486128
Demo only
  • #330
  • Apr 1, 2017 3:47pm Apr 1, 2017 3:47pm
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} I think they're pretty clear to see and maybe not impossible to code but insanely hard.. which means you will literally go insane if you try coding it.
That's a topic I have thought about, too.
Thanks for bringing this up.
Does it have to be perfect? Nope. I am sure, enough pairs and Time Frames will make an imperfect definition and a reasonably logic trade management via trailing stop and trail trigger sort of irrelevant in the bigger statistical picture.

Can we try it with words?
Let me give some parameters:
time.
price range.
--> that sounds like volatility.
So maybe some EA that draws boxes of consolidation in "collaboration" with a low ATR (of whatever period).
Is this something codeable?

--> and then what do you do with this defined consolidation zone?
- trade the breakout of it?
- trade a reversal into it after a breakout? (you'd need to define break out then, probably by numbers of bars closed outside of the range /time passed out side of range)
- Place buy/sell limits above / below for stop loss hunts? (--> what S/Ls do theses trades then have? something based on ATR?)

Questions...Questions...
Demo only
  • #331
  • Apr 2, 2017 12:38am Apr 2, 2017 12:38am
Quoting bg_sunny
{quote} That's a topic I have thought about, too. Thanks for bringing this up. Does it have to be perfect? Nope. I am sure, enough pairs and Time Frames will make an imperfect definition and a reasonably logic trade management via trailing stop and trail trigger sort of irrelevant in the bigger statistical picture. Can we try it with words? Let me give some parameters: time. price range. --> that sounds like volatility. So maybe some EA that draws boxes of consolidation in "collaboration" with a low ATR (of whatever period). Is this something codeable?...
I would trade only breakouts ! it may sounds counter intuitive selling lows and buying highs but how do we know where the the consolidation ends ? even better if you wait for a retrace and miss some entries !
Also (according to my research) a volatity breakout system based on indicators works, but nothing can beat the human brain because of the complexity of this system. In fact I see indicators mostly as a noise reduction / confirmation tool.
  • #332
  • Apr 2, 2017 2:31am Apr 2, 2017 2:31am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} I would trade only breakouts ! it may sounds counter intuitive selling lows and buying highs but how do we know where the the consolidation ends ? even better if you wait for a retrace and miss some entries ! Also (according to my research) a volatity breakout system based on indicators works, but nothing can beat the human brain because of the complexity of this system. In fact I see indicators mostly as a noise reduction / confirmation tool.
Currently I'm testing a vola breakout system. Optimizing paramters.
I disagree with human superiority. Spotting a zone might be easier to comprehend by humans, but I'm confident GOOD ENOUGH parameters can be coded. Where humans are definitely not better is disciplined trade management. I will not share the reasons why, because these weaknesses make up an essential part of my approach, which has cost me too much time and brain effort (and water bills, since I get my best ideas under the shower), to just write them here. You will not convince me that a human manages trades better over a large sample size the same way a machine does.
I'm not trying to build a Stradivarius. I'm trying to sell standard violins at a reasonable margin to all orchestras. May the solo violinists play their Strads, Guarneris, Guadagninis amd Amatis subsidized by rich donors. May you discretionary traders rake in the one or other big win. I'm looking for scalability at a reasonable profit. The profit is in the scalability and not in the superior quality.
Demo only
  • #333
  • Apr 2, 2017 4:21am Apr 2, 2017 4:21am
Quoting bg_sunny
{quote} Currently I'm testing a vola breakout system. Optimizing paramters. I disagree with human superiority. Spotting a zone might be easier to comprehend by humans, but I'm confident GOOD ENOUGH parameters can be coded. Where humans are definitely not better is disciplined trade management. I will not share the reasons why, because these weaknesses make up an essential part of my approach, which has cost me too much time and brain effort (and water bills, since I get my best ideas under the shower), to just write them here. You will not convince...
practitally speaking YES
Anyway I was talking about a systematic (manual) approach, without any discretionary intervention.

Problem is that so called weaknesses are still a big threat if you're not 100% comfortable with taking losses, waiting a lot, not being greedy etc. etc.
  • #334
  • Apr 2, 2017 5:19am Apr 2, 2017 5:19am
Quoting HeyYou
{quote} practitally speaking YES Anyway I was talking about a systematic (manual) approach, without any discretionary intervention. Problem is that so called weaknesses are still a big threat if you're not 100% comfortable with taking losses, waiting a lot, not being greedy etc. etc.
Yes. I was assuming that anybody interacting in the financial markets has these attributes in terms of taking risk/being ok with losing here and there.
Funnily our business is considered risky, but putting money in a bank against a claim that you'll get back, (fully knowing that banks lend multiples of their deposits) backed up by a government deposit insurance issued by a highly indebted government doesn't bother people.
The "waiting problem" can be tackled by having multiple currecies and time frames being played by the EA. Greed is trade management. Again, hard coded.
Demo only
  • #335
  • Apr 2, 2017 5:43am Apr 2, 2017 5:43am
Quoting bg_sunny
{quote} Yes. I was assuming that anybody interacting in the financial markets has these attributes in terms of taking risk/being ok with losing here and there. Funnily our business is considered risky, but putting money in a bank against a claim that you'll get back, (fully knowing that banks lend multiples of their deposits) backed up by a government deposit insurance issued by a highly indebted government doesn't bother people. The "waiting problem" can be tackled by having multiple currecies and time frames being played by the EA. Greed is trade...
Yep, regarding banks.. two relatives of mine just lost good part of their savings along with another couple thousand clients.

no risk no life, only thing to do is to try and figure out what works for u and what doesn't.


Btw Forex is statistically safe.
  • #336
  • Apr 2, 2017 6:04am Apr 2, 2017 6:04am
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} Yes wait until Artificial Intelligence takes over the world. There will be not need for humans and therefore no chance for profits as machines do not make mistakes.

The key is creativity. We are a long long way from machines being creative.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #337
  • Apr 2, 2017 6:14am Apr 2, 2017 6:14am
Im really curious for traders making a living off trading, how large is your capital?
And if the amount of capital is huge (>500k?), would it better to invest it in lower risk stocks/equities/index?
I look for value wherever it can be found
  • #338
  • Apr 2, 2017 6:22am Apr 2, 2017 6:22am
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} Good point.. How do you code creativity?
With great difficulty, I guess it would come down to introducing some kind of randomness and testing those "mutations" against desired behaviour, an evolution machine as it were.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
  • #339
  • Apr 2, 2017 6:25am Apr 2, 2017 6:25am
Quoting synicz
Im really curious for traders making a living off trading, how large is your capital? And if the amount of capital is huge (>500k?), would it better to invest it in lower risk stocks/equities/index?
defo stocks and or longer-term options. most of retail FX traders accounts are <1000 usd.
  • #340
  • Apr 2, 2017 7:23am Apr 2, 2017 7:23am
Quoting synicz
Im really curious for traders making a living off trading, how large is your capital? And if the amount of capital is huge (>500k?), would it better to invest it in lower risk stocks/equities/index?
I'm sure you find only fun traders here, don't expect serious answers

btw sorry to correct you, but stocks are not lower risk as nobody forces you to use high leverage.
0 traders viewing now