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How to make a living with trading?

Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} Explain to me please, how that "discretionary feel" improves my trading. A lot of traders go on and on with that kind of statements. From my experience the biggest part of that "feel" is traders own emotions. And every time i relied on my emotions I got burned. That is why trading is so hard, because controling emotions is hard. That means a trader must be always emotionally stable, every time and every moment when entering the position, sl, tp, money management, ... always. For me at least that is mission impossible. That's why i had some...
While struggling with emotions, have you considered placing your orders on a session where they're likely to be triggered while you would be asleep? Becoming desensitized to taking losses is an important attribute to develop and the session switch might be a good starting point.
Quoting jen101
{quote} You will get a lot from following Niall Fuller. http://www.learntotradethemarket.com/ I use S&R heavily like he does plus I use patterns. Good luck!
Seems like another "super succesfull" trader who sells his own coaching. 370% in three months! Wow, he must be always right. What would i give to learn his magic. Oh wait, maybe for a xxx k$ he will teach me.
Quoting TGS
{quote} While struggling with emotions, have you considered placing your orders on a session where they're likely to be triggered while you would be asleep? Becoming desensitized to taking losses is an important attribute to develop and the session switch might be a good starting point.
Have you ever concidered that "triggering pending orders" is a common practice for burning naive traders? I can go to sleep and don't rely on pre-positioned pending orders if EA is observating the market 24/7 and entering when all my conditions are met, not just the pre-positioned orders. Congratulations if you can become desensitized to taking lossess. I can't do that.
Even doing what you suggested, i can't see how can that automatically improve my trading.
Quoting guybaker
{quote} Foxes have fur, long noses, run on four legs, paws, no clothes, etc etc etc. There is nothing "special" about human perception, nothing that cannot be reproduced and improved upon, nature has done it via evolution, we in the end will do the same and better by design, machines are limited by our current software and hardware, they have already taken over from humans in many fields, driving will be no different, and as for trading which has many fewer inputs than driving, it has already happened for the most part.
Exactly!
I think we share a lot of trading views.
Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} Explain to me please, how that "discretionary feel" improves my trading. A lot of traders go on and on with that kind of statements. From my experience the biggest part of that "feel" is traders own emotions. And every time i relied on my emotions I got burned. That is why trading is so hard, because controling emotions is hard. That means a trader must be always emotionally stable, every time and every moment when entering the position, sl, tp, money management, ... always. For me at least that is mission impossible. That's why i had some...
hmm not quite.. emotions and intuition are not the same and actually my "feeling" has helped me stay away from trouble in trading. it also helps to get good trades.
It's in fear when people show what they truly value.
Quoting PiranoTrader
{quote} Seems like another "super succesfull" trader who sells his own coaching. 370% in three months! Wow, he must be always right. What would i give to learn his magic. Oh wait, maybe for a xxx k$ he will teach me.
C'mon guys. Nial is full of shit. I know him since 2012. Pure BS. Did Paul Tudor James sell anything that explained his strategy? Nope.
Conclusion: It's like with sex. Those who have it don't talk, and those wo talk don't have it.
Basta
Demo only
Quoting guybaker
{quote} I agree that there is probably no strategy that will work forever, so it is important to monitor the performance to see when things are going outside of expected results. The problem I have with discretionary trading is that it is impossible to test, and frankly I believe a lot of people trading that way are gambling without even knowing it.
As long as the herd behaves the same way and history repeats itself then I cannot see why a strategy cannot last for forever. As long as a market moves whether up or down, I can make money. If it doesn't move it's dead.
You came here for the truth and let me unveil it for you
Quoting ensale
{quote} hmm not quite.. emotions and intuition are not the same and actually my "feeling" has helped me stay away from trouble in trading. it also helps to get good trades.
That is good for you. Congratulations.
As i said, i can't do that.
Besides, everything is not for everybody. So it is the best for everyone to stick to something that works for him.
Keep it up.
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} As long as the herd behaves the same way and history repeats itself then I cannot see why a strategy cannot last for forever. As long as a market moves whether up or down, I can make money. If it doesn't move it's dead.

May well be true. Best to keep checking the results though
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
Quoting ensale
{quote} hmm not quite.. emotions and intuition are not the same and actually my "feeling" has helped me stay away from trouble in trading. it also helps to get good trades.

The force is strong in this one
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
Quoting jmn5611
{quote} Guy, believe it or not, I learned 99% of everything I know about trading from relentlessly reading these threads on this site. Once, I put together a moving average system that is built for the newbie that just has the logic of buy when price is above all the lines and momentum is rising, and vice versa. I am sure you algo guys have done everything that can be done, because PA is very straight forward. Buy low, sell high, use the principles of Infinite Yield and hold as long as possible. You are going to laugh, but a lot times when I will...
IMHO Discretion is either 1) subconscious logic which could in principal be understood and coded, or 2) Luck. There is no magic in trading or anywhere else.

My broker is IG.com, I doubt even if I were making £1m a month they will care, they are primarily interested in volume they make their money from the spread or in the case of Binaries the margin between buy and sell prices.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
Quoting dukas_trader
{quote} hmm, in what project is not 1 mill at least? ok, we speak about 1 year or more i hope so and with a good capital basis and only a drawdown of 10 % from the wins (to have a good secure strategy and be ready for big events, flash crashs,gaps,...) , or ? best are strategies that have the monthly win about the same like the max drawdown, so its very easy to trust and the loss are not big enough to get you in trouble and get fast back in the trading line. and not get in trouble is best you can get by a program. of course also not get in trouble...
I have my own applications. I am at ease writing code, I don't really need any special user interface, I find they can restrict what I want to do.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
A good thread yet the challenge remains for the original Poster...

Its very frustrating when you've spent years (in most cases) crafting your skills as a self taught retail trader to a level where you can consistently make money from your trading FX only to find that under capitalisation means that all your blood, sweat and tears to reach your goal are thwarted by the fact that being under capitalised has crushed the dream.

There are options..

I've been in this business for some time now and have seen many traders come and go..the very few still in it and making a living from their trading all have one thing in common:

 

  1. They trade low leverage - typically less than 2:1 (that way if/when they are hit by a Black Swan event..their account suffers but survives).


Now lets look realistically at what returns are attainable trading such low leverage...less than 3% pcm ...likely 1-2% if you are good - (feel free to challenge me on this but these are my findings from years of experience).

If you are UK based even having a trading bank of 100k you'd just scratch out a living trading.

So you could look at remote prop trading...Sadly the few who offer this all seem to insist on day trading only with no overnight positions...there is one company who let you hold that I'm aware of but on investigation they simply wanted to steal my IP (MY TRADING STRATEGY)

You could become a Signal Provider..There are quite a few options here and if you are a swing trader this is probably one of the better options if you have an MT4 account with at least 6 months history (ideally 12months +) .

Once you've built up a following as a Signal Provider followers/copiers will contact you to ask if you have a MAM or PAMM - providing you are delivering returns, are consistent with your risk management and don't take them through hell in drawdowns over 10% they will come to you - its natural progression.

This is my experience of the journey...may not suit everyone but unless you are very well capitalised you have to build a trading strategy that is scalable and then offer your business service.

I wish you all the best.

Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} As long as the herd behaves the same way and history repeats itself then I cannot see why a strategy cannot last for forever. As long as a market moves whether up or down, I can make money. If it doesn't move it's dead.

this reply goes directly to my top 10 replys ever list
All wise words. an additional option is if possible code your method, let it run with minimal effort and go and work a job to build up your account.
I live entirely from the growth of my personal trading account
Quoting RondaRousey
{quote} As long as the herd behaves the same way and history repeats itself then I cannot see why a strategy cannot last for forever. As long as a market moves whether up or down, I can make money. If it doesn't move it's dead.
Agreed.

Once a trader learns how to make money using money management and position sizing skills from a position which begins with a random entry that goes into drawdown; then the fun begins..(this was often a test given to rookie traders in Prop.)
Quoting FXClarity
A good thread yet the challenge remains for the original Poster... Its very frustrating when you've spent years (in most cases) crafting your skills as a self taught retail trader to a level where you can consistently make money from your trading FX only to find that under capitalisation means that all your blood, sweat and tears to reach your goal are thwarted by the fact that being under capitalised has crushed the dream. There are options.. I've been in this business for some time now and have seen many traders come and go..the very few still...

Thank you. Valuable answer.
Quoting guybaker
{quote} The force is strong in this one
The one sided view is strong in this one too!
It's in fear when people show what they truly value.
I seldom post anymore. I will give this one a try. Hope it helps. I do not say that this will be true for everyone. It is true for me. My big turning point was when I realized that I would never be able to take 5K and turn in into 100k in 1 or 2 years. I came to understand that 5% per month was a fabulous return that few could produce over the long term. So, what to do about my bankroll? I took a 2 step approach: 1) Continue trading part time and grow my account at a safe, sustainable rate. 2) Work my butt off to earn extra income to increase my bankroll. For 5 years I worked 2, 3, sometimes 4 jobs. I put every penny I could into my account. I did not take vacations. I had few "Extras" in my life. My family suffered and sacrificed. Over time, I Grew and Saved my way to low 6 figures. I am now approaching mid 6 figures. I am 50 years old and could retire today from my job and trade full time. I have the bankroll now to allow a 3-5% per month return to give me a very nice life. I know this way is long and hard, and in many aspects is not very appealing. However, this method has one BIG advantage. If you work hard for bankroll, sacrifice so much for it, you will be a lot more careful with it. The thought of "blowing" you account and losing the money that you have worked so hard for will become unthinkable, and it will make it lot easier to cut you losses when you need to. Good Trades to All. Kind Regards,
All strategies, whether manual or fundamental, can be replicated by a bot. If a trader doesn't try to code his strategy, that could be :

 

  1. He doesn't know how to code and doesn't feel comfortable in giving the rules to some coder
  2. He is afraid to see that his strategy is not profitable in the long term which will destroy his confidence and bring him back to step 0.
  3. He is bored in his life and unconsciously wants to keep himself busy every day.
  4. His ego wants him to believe that he has some special power that will keep him out of bad trades.

Don't give up on your dreams. Keep sleeping.
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