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Multi Stoch - expanding upon 'Spud's Stochastic Thread Theory'

  • #201
  • Jan 13, 2017 6:55am Jan 13, 2017 6:55am
To clarify the K/D crossover SV value thing...

When a line appears, it means a TF2 crossover of K and D has occurred. It is here that we need to check the separation value of K and D.

If we are using the 5 Minute chart as TF2 and the 1 Minute as TF1, this means that there are 5 "minutes" of data along each flat section of the TF2 stoch K line.

If you position your mouse over the open of the TF2 Stoch and check the value, and then move your mouse along the stoch slowly, candle by candle, you will see the data values in the window change slightly with each candle.

This is not easy to fix, as Stochastics by their very nature use either high/low or close/close for their calculations. There would need to be a Stochastic that used the OPEN in order for an open price to be printed and effectively "frozen", perfectly flat, for the 5 minute duration. Such a Stoch does not exist, and MT4 would not recognise "open" as the input price field if it were to be programmed into the code.

Therefore it is always best practice to position your mouse over the very last bar at the very end of the TF2 K line, to get the values at candle close. This is the best bet you have in seeing the most accurate values to base your decision on whether to enter or not.
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  • #202
  • Jan 13, 2017 6:57am Jan 13, 2017 6:57am
Quoting kelvinyun
{quote} Hi, I'm not even sure if what I'm doing is the same thing that is taught by kirk. But anyway, it works. the simple rule... 1) buy/sell when the threads converge become rope AND its overbought or oversold. see the area marked red. 2) trade with the trend. If the trend is UP, then buy when oversold. Don't ever ever short in an uptrend even with perfect signals. 3) U will realize that entering immediately when the threads first become rope is a bad move. wait for one or two more candles later. Untitled.jpg;2139170 Untitled2.jpg;2139172 {image}...
Very true. Ropes are extremely powerful and are part of the initial strategy in this thread.

The trouble I am having is how to mathematically calculate what a ROPE "is", and then program that into the code so that when a rope forms, along with other criteria, it generates an entry signal.

You have identified a great entry signal in any case, and if it works for you, go grab some pips!
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  • #203
  • Jan 13, 2017 6:59am Jan 13, 2017 6:59am
Quoting kirkleaforex
In that same screenshot in the post above, there has been a change in direction on the TF2 stochastic, however at the time the alert was printed the value difference was only 0.4. And we have sideways movement with no volatility in the move. While it may certainly end up becoming a bullish move, I would wait it out - a better signal will always be not too far away.
Thank you for the answer.

D.
  • #204
  • Jan 13, 2017 7:08am Jan 13, 2017 7:08am
Quoting kirkleaforex
{quote} Very true. Ropes are extremely powerful and are part of the initial strategy in this thread. The trouble I am having is how to mathematically calculate what a ROPE "is", and then program that into the code so that when a rope forms, along with other criteria, it generates an entry signal. You have identified a great entry signal in any case, and if it works for you, go grab some pips!
would incorporating standard deviation of the individual %K values work?

1) ROPES
ENTRY SIGNAL when Standard Deviation is lesser than some value.

6 stochastics.. so 6 %K data.

get a mean value.

calculate deviation.

if deviation form mean is very tiny, means all of them are bunched together hence rope.


2) FISHNET & COMBS
Fishnet or comb would both have bigger standard deviation.

not sure how to differentiate this two.

Maybe..

a) COMB
i) Standard deviation have to be larger than some threshold.
ii) No overlapping of lines. So the %K data of the "lesser periods" would not be equivalent to %K of the "longer period"

b) FISHNET
i) Standard deviation have to be larger than some threshold.
ii) overlapping of lines. So the %K data of the "lesser periods" would be equivalent to %K of the "longer period"
  • #205
  • Jan 13, 2017 7:40am Jan 13, 2017 7:40am
Quoting kelvinyun
{quote} would incorporating standard deviation of the individual %K values work? 1) ROPES ENTRY SIGNAL when Standard Deviation is lesser than some value. 6 stochastics.. so 6 %K data. get a mean value. calculate deviation. if deviation form mean is very tiny, means all of them are bunched together hence rope. 2) FISHNET & COMBS Fishnet or comb would both have bigger standard deviation. not sure how to differentiate this two. Maybe.. a) COMB i) Standard deviation have to be larger than some threshold. ii) No overlapping of lines. So the %K data of...
This is getting back to the original thread idea, which is fine, as it is still related to this new strategy in some way.

This latest strategy I am trying to keep as simple as possible, and not over complicate anything in terms of coding. It is through over-complication with the initial indicator attempt that I think things have become a little out of hand.

That said, the indicator that I am developing for the ORIGINAL Multi-Stoch already has a standard deviation function built in to measure the rope value. Then, any signal that occurs in conjunction with a rope "threshold" under a particular value constitutes a rope entry signal.

Sounds great in theory, doesn't it?

To be honest there is still much work to be done, and so for now I am parking that whole idea until this newer, simpler strategy is released. It sounds like your ideas will be very handy when it comes time for me to return to the original strategy idea however. I hope you don't mind if I reach out to you when that time comes.
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  • #206
  • Jan 13, 2017 8:21am Jan 13, 2017 8:21am
Quoting kirkleaforex
{quote} This is getting back to the original thread idea, which is fine, as it is still related to this new strategy in some way. This latest strategy I am trying to keep as simple as possible, and not over complicate anything in terms of coding. It is through over-complication with the initial indicator attempt that I think things have become a little out of hand. That said, the indicator that I am developing for the ORIGINAL Multi-Stoch already has a standard deviation function built in to measure the rope value. Then, any signal that occurs in...
I think it is a good idea to rest your new strategy until you further develop your idea. There are just to many questions and uncertainty for now.
Thank you for a snapshot of your new idea and we appreciate it. For all our sakes I would sugguest to let lirkleaforex work on his strategy. Come back when you think that it is ready to present. Otherwise it will get out of hand.

D.
  • #207
  • Jan 13, 2017 9:34am Jan 13, 2017 9:34am
Dirk I was wondering whether I should have introduced this and wrestled with that decision a bit. I am aware that the decision to introduce something new will perhaps cause confusion and uncertainty, but to be clear, the original strategy is being rested due to complications implementing the entry and exit criteria into formulas that work as intended.

The fact is that I feel like I promised an indicator that never eventuated, and I realise that the "promised" indicator is just too far away for release at this stage, and I wanted to offer something of an interim measure.

The adjusted strategy works out of the box, has far fewer conditions, and requires far less effort in trying to educate, demonstrate and explain. There's a lot to be said about "keeping things simple".

Therefore the latest, adjusted strategy will be what I present here until I find the time to return to my original idea.

Regular screenshots with trade examples, and a Youtube style instructional video should be enough to alleviate any confusion. I plan on completing the video over the coming weekend.

I understand that it isn't possible to please 100% of people 100% of the time, as much as I like to try to...but this is my decision for now. If it turns into a car crash, I will pull the pin!

Enjoy your weekend all
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  • #208
  • Jan 13, 2017 9:42am Jan 13, 2017 9:42am
Quoting kirkleaforex
Dirk I was wondering whether I should have introduced this and wrestled with that decision a bit. I am aware that the decision to introduce something new will perhaps cause confusion and uncertainty, but to be clear, the original strategy is being rested due to complications implementing the entry and exit criteria into formulas that work as intended. The fact is that I feel like I promised an indicator that never eventuated, and I realise that the "promised" indicator is just too far away for release at this stage, and I wanted to offer something...
It's ok to deviate, or even scrap the original idea.

Afterall, the ultimate aim is

a) simple

b) can make green pips!

hahaha!

All the best in this endeavor!
  • #209
  • Jan 13, 2017 10:58am Jan 13, 2017 10:58am
Quoting kirkleaforex
Dirk I was wondering whether I should have introduced this and wrestled with that decision a bit. I am aware that the decision to introduce something new will perhaps cause confusion and uncertainty, but to be clear, the original strategy is being rested due to complications implementing the entry and exit criteria into formulas that work as intended. The fact is that I feel like I promised an indicator that never eventuated, and I realise that the "promised" indicator is just too far away for release at this stage, and I wanted to offer something...
It is your thread you can do whatever you want.

During my time here I have seen "simple" threads turn into complicated one that in the end had nothing to do anymore with the original. This is a simple strategy that works as proven by you and other people. I just don't like the idea that this one ends up just like all the other ones. And that was the reason I wrote that you should take your time to perfect your idea until it is ready.
Well. I wish you good Luck.
I definately take something from your thread and see what else you got in storage.

D.
  • #210
  • Jan 13, 2017 12:22pm Jan 13, 2017 12:22pm
I am happy to see that you have decided the mtf stochastics spud theory is too complicated to trade.....trading is as simple as A B C
  • #211
  • Jan 13, 2017 12:42pm Jan 13, 2017 12:42pm
Hi Kirk

You are doing again a very good job like the previous thread.

Suggestion:
When you are releasing explanations, indicators, videos etc... like today, just try to updated always your first post with the links to the related posts.
In this way nobody will miss anything important and for you will be easy to go over your posts to double check for any mistakes, review updates etc...
Usually, when the threads got bigger and bigger, many valuables information get lost because is hard to find them.
It will be beneficial for you that you'll have everything organized in one place and for new readers as well.

Looking forward for your videos.

Cheers
Merka
  • #212
  • Edited 7:54pm Jan 13, 2017 7:30pm | Edited 7:54pm
Quoting Merka
Hi Kirk You are doing again a very good job like the previous thread. Suggestion: When you are releasing explanations, indicators, videos etc... like today, just try to updated always your first post with the links to the related posts. In this way nobody will miss anything important and for you will be easy to go over your posts to double check for any mistakes, review updates etc... Usually, when the threads got bigger and bigger, many valuables information get lost because is hard to find them. It will be beneficial for you that you'll have everything...
Great idea thanks for suggesting. Will update stuff this weekend. Thanks Merka.
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  • #213
  • Jan 13, 2017 10:00pm Jan 13, 2017 10:00pm
Quoting DirkH143
{quote} It is your thread you can do whatever you want. During my time here I have seen "simple" threads turn into complicated one that in the end had nothing to do anymore with the original. This is a simple strategy that works as proven by you and other people. I just don't like the idea that this one ends up just like all the other ones. And that was the reason I wrote that you should take your time to perfect your idea until it is ready. Well. I wish you good Luck. I definately take something from your thread and see what else you got in storage....
Hindsight is a wonderful thing. And if I had waited another day I would have discovered that repainting is an unavoidable pitfall with any MTF indicator and thus this project is not as near completion as I had hoped.

An idea that is being considered is printing the TF2 Stoch values with a Shift value of +1, which ensures the repainting issue is solved.

On one hand this is a good thing, as any value you see at the start of a TF2 bar remains intact for the full duration of the candle, meaning signals can be trusted.

On the other hand it means signals arrive one bar late. On a long time frame such as H4, this can be very costly in terms of loss of potential profit.

So it is back to the drawing board again

FYI I am playing with faster K periods for the TF2 as well as faster periods for the Fib-Stochs, namely 3/3/3 to 34/3/3, as a way of speeding up signals and counteracting the delay experienced by having the TF2 shifted to the right. Early indications are positive, but this is far from a done deal.

I am nothing if not relentless though. Tenacious to a fault, my wife would say!

Dirk, I see now that you were spot on with your earlier post, and I will take heed and only post when I have something more concrete to offer the thread. In the interim I hope that the indicator and template that I posted earlier is of some use to people.
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  • #214
  • Jan 13, 2017 11:16pm Jan 13, 2017 11:16pm
Hey Kirk, My advice if you'd accept it, is to stick to your original strategy which is manually tradable as per your rules. You've already tested it for six month and fully aware of its strength, I wouldn't have subscribed if it wasn't.

I've mentioned before that i use a similar concept and it's as powerful as yours so I can tell from first sight which strategy is worthy and which is not. If I thought my own stoch strategy could be coded I would've tried looking for a coder but I knew it's impossible, but then when you started this thread you were working with a coder so I thought maybe it is possible and here is the brilliant Kirk was able to create rules for the setups which could be programmed, later you had several coders offering their services as well as having subscribed coders and none of them ever stepped up to say it's impossible to code.

I didn't say a thing regarding the new strategy because to be honest with you it's not as powerful and sound as the original.

As i was trying to tell all subscribers in my previous posts, now i have to tell you my friend that alerts are just an addition not a mandatory, subscribers didn't interact because they were waiting for the promised easy way, however it didn't work out...so what?! it doesn't mean the strategy is worthless. You can always continue with the original concept and lead this thread to success.

Wishing you all the best.
  • #215
  • Jan 13, 2017 11:45pm Jan 13, 2017 11:45pm
Quoting DreamwalkeR
Hey Kirk, My advice if you'd accept it, is to stick to your original strategy which is manually tradable as per your rules. You've already tested it for six month and fully aware of its strength, I wouldn't have subscribed if it wasn't. I've mentioned before that i use a similar concept and it's as powerful as yours so I can tell from first sight which strategy is worthy and which is not. If I thought my own stoch strategy could be coded I would've tried looking for a coder but I knew it's impossible, but then when you started this thread you were...
 
Thanks mate. This thread is, as life is, a journey of discovery. Some of that pertains to self-discovery and growth in awareness, learning what to hold on to and what to discard. What drives us forward and what hinders our progress.
 
Quite honestly I am at a fork in the road.
 
It's so easy for me to trade multi stoch as i have examined it so closely for so long i have learned the patterns and behaviours and can earn quick pips fairly easily from the setups. This amount of self-teaching can't be quickly or easily replicated. Unless others do the hard yards that I have endured, they will need an indicator to guide them. There are many patterns available and coding them becomes a minefield. And I am a perfectionist, which compounds the issue.
 
I will give this some serious thought. Thanks as always for your insight and support. I hope to be able to decide on a direction soon. 
 
To everyone else reading this, please consider taking a leaf out of Dreamwalker's book. Learn the main strategy setups, and trade this manually. It is very powerful once the penny drops. If you need guidance, post a screenshot with a question. I am happy to assist.
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  • #216
  • Jan 15, 2017 8:20am Jan 15, 2017 8:20am
If I'm not mistaken there was a post here but it disappeared with an idea to put convert a higher TF into the lower TF and I was going to recommend that you look into that Kirk, because you are a master tweaker but for some strange reason I can't seem to find it..? Anyway, it is a good idea. So you would multiple the values to convert the higher TF into the lower one. What do you think, Kirk?
  • #217
  • Jan 16, 2017 1:54am Jan 16, 2017 1:54am
Hi Kirk

Great indi just requesting an alert for this indicator pls.
would be very helpful.

many thanks
  • #218
  • Jan 16, 2017 8:47am Jan 16, 2017 8:47am
Hi Kirk
Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge. It is generous people like you that enable me to learn without paying an exorbitant amount in school fees (for so called "courses" and also in costly mistakes!).

Thanks also for second strategy and I understand that you want to honor your promises as in first posts but are not able to do so to your liking and satisfaction - thus your reasoning for posting the second strategy. However I just want to point out that it gets quite confusing (especially if the thread becomes longer) to know when a post refers to the first or second strategy - maybe splitting the two with a link from this thread to the second one might prevent unnecessary confusion?

Thanks again - I am demoing the second strategy.... Much to learn I have...
  • #219
  • Jan 21, 2017 12:28am Jan 21, 2017 12:28am
Did not thought that I will comment on this thread. I support DreamwalkeR's opinion here. Now, you created an indicator that shows an optimized past and does repaint in the now. You do not need to serve those people here looking for the holy grail. They will anyway fail, even with those nice alerts.

Just stick to the thing that works and teach the mindset that is required to make it work, if you want to teach anybody, as it looks like.

Take care and thank you for raising my awareness on the MTF Stoch, really a beauty.
Pat
  • #220
  • Jan 21, 2017 1:22am Jan 21, 2017 1:22am
Quoting DerPat
Did not thought that I will comment on this thread. I support DreamwalkeR's opinion here. Now, you created an indicator that shows an optimized past and does repaint in the now. You do not need to serve those people here looking for the holy grail. They will anyway fail, even with those nice alerts. Just stick to the thing that works and teach the mindset that is required to make it work, if you want to teach anybody, as it looks like. Take care and thank you for raising my awareness on the MTF Stoch, really a beauty.
Derpat,

Come on Now. Every Body goes through that phase. As it is, people who are willing to help and generous and humble to boot are few and far between in FF. KirkleaForex belongs to this rare breed. If the path to trading success is made easy, i don't see any problem. My belief is the path doesn't have to be made harder just for the sake of being harder.

Just my 2 cents. Have a nice weekend.

Thanks
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