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  • #961
  • Oct 29, 2016 3:40pm Oct 29, 2016 3:40pm
RI/QC has certain criteria & circumstances in which it is used. Being used in the Visual EZ scan format (VG), people tended to use the RI/QC blindly without understanding the criteria and circumstances in which it is used. Rather than have it misused as a trading signal. They decided to eliminate it on the VG. You can still visually "see" the same info by following the letters in the "Rotation Profile". You can also visually "see" the QC by locating the close on the graphic.

They also discontinued the LDB & Commercial analysis. Jones already proved through empirical research & testing that cleared exchange volume was not needed, that TPO analysis can be used for both, markets that that don’t report volume, as well as those that do. As a licensed data vendor for the CBOT/CME they still provided the info to paid MP subscribers.

When CBOT was taken over by the CME, the CME decided to change the pricing for the LDB report. That would mean CISCO would have to charge it's paid subscribers upwards of over $800+ a month for the same info. Rather than pass the cost on to it's customers they chose to discontinue it's use.

So when they updated their systems & database, they discontinued both RI/QC and the CME Volume data from the "New" VG as well.

Old VG & New VG....................
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #962
  • Oct 31, 2016 1:27pm Oct 31, 2016 1:27pm
Quoting thetail
{quote} Yes, it's correct but excel can't read file in sub sub sub sub sub etccc.. folder because the path is too long, so you must copy csv file in another folder (desktop or new folder like c:\data) and open them from there. http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/m...4-d3364a7060f7
Thanks.Worked like magic
  • #963
  • Oct 31, 2016 1:43pm Oct 31, 2016 1:43pm
Quoting dljonesFan
{quote} Not thats not the way to calc it. Jones exp the calc in one of his articles. You take the last 4 and last 8 days range (so 2 ranges) and divide it into 4 equal parts (both ranges, called quadrants). Then you record the 1 day time segment (1day range) mov within the ranges. If the 1 day range goes tru the 4 day 1. and 2. quadrant then there goes 1 and 1 into the matrix and so on... the rest is very simple maths. Please read the article about overlays by Jones. {quote} source: "The overlay profile for current market analysis" by Donald L....
Thanks dljonesfan,
Gat it
  • #964
  • Nov 2, 2016 9:46pm Nov 2, 2016 9:46pm
Been wondering ever since I read this bit. Do traders strictly using this method have similar, or better/worse win ratios than this described? I understand that risk itself on a trade can be predetermined per the individual and there are likewise different goals for holding orders overnight and daily in-out trades (my interest).

"In the experience of the author you will likely make the wrong decision on two out of three trades. A key to success is money management. Limit losses to small amounts, be prepared to let profits run."
https://web.archive.org/web/20121223010549/http://www.cisco-futures.com/daily_trade_setup.html
  • #965
  • Nov 3, 2016 12:13am Nov 3, 2016 12:13am
Quoting Krw
Been wondering ever since I read this bit. Do traders strictly using this method have similar, or better/worse win ratios than this described? I understand that risk itself on a trade can be predetermined per the individual and there are likewise different goals for holding orders overnight and daily in-out trades (my interest). "In the experience of the author you will likely make the wrong decision on two out of three trades. A key to success is money management. Limit losses to small amounts, be prepared to let profits run." https://web.archive.org/web/20121223010549/http://www.cisco-futures.com/daily_trade_setup.html...
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...73#post8995673
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #966
  • Nov 3, 2016 1:33am Nov 3, 2016 1:33am
Quoting mzvega
{quote} http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...73#post8995673
I see whatever you are doing is significantly higher than 2/3 win rate. Very Nice!
  • #967
  • Nov 3, 2016 4:35am Nov 3, 2016 4:35am
Quoting mzvega
{quote} http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...73#post8995673
ORDER FLOW,
DATA SET 1
DIR=-7
ACT=8
NET=-7+8=1

DATA SET 2
ATT DIR =DOWN(-70%)

COMPARING DATA SET 1 AND DATA SET 2; NEUTRAL
I find this confusing especially in a down trend where increased activity in the downward movement(+) is added to a negative direction movement(-).
Anyone help!
And i find TPO count below and above conflicting Att Direction. Thought one TPO count below/above facilitates Att dir

Mzvega,
Why do u like trading balanced markets yet you are an initiative trader? Thought they are meant for responsive trading back to value. A change in Value (forming of another distribution guess would mean acceptance of new range hence more chances of an initiative trade. Will be glad if you can clarify on those. Thanks in advance
  • #968
  • Edited 6:38pm Nov 3, 2016 5:26pm | Edited 6:38pm
Quoting kfx2016
{quote} ORDER FLOW, DATA SET 1 DIR=-7 ACT=8 NET=-7+8=1 DATA SET 2 ATT DIR =DOWN(-70%) COMPARING DATA SET 1 AND DATA SET 2; NEUTRAL I find this confusing especially in a down trend where increased activity in the downward movement(+) is added to a negative direction movement(-). Anyone help! And i find TPO count below and above conflicting Att Direction. Thought one TPO count below/above facilitates Att dir Mzvega, Why do u like trading balanced markets yet you are an initiative trader? Thought they are meant for responsive trading back to value....
Have you read the book VBPT? or MOM?
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #969
  • Edited 9:57am Nov 9, 2016 8:29am | Edited 9:57am
Hi that's me again .... long post on the Attempted Direction

Starting with some references:

from FAQ - twww.cisco-futures.com\faq.html
What is the 'Attempted Direction'?
Attempted Direction (AD): EOD measure of of the direction the market tried to go today.
If POC is 20% or more of the day's range above the open, AD is up.
If POC is 20% or less of the day's range below the open, AD is down.
See Mind Over Markets, p 178, p 192,3 for detail.
Value Area Direction: Direction of Value Area (up or down from yesterday).

from FAQ G. Trader Control Package (TCP) - www.cisco-futures.com/faqg.html
Attempted Direction: Direction market tried to go today.
If POC is 20% or more of days range above the open, AD is up; if 20% or more below the open, AD is down.
See 'Mind Over Markets' for a complete discussion
Value Area Direction: Direction of Value Area (up or down from yest.).

from www.cisco-futures.com/amva_explanation.html
2f. Attempted Direction (Balanced Market) MOM 178, 192, CMP91 65
AD: POC: UP or DN POC directionality, last three days (Close +/- 20% above/below POC) MOM 122
AD: Rotn Fac: UP or DN directionality of half hour bars (+ is up, - is dn)

from Explanation of Visual Graphic (VG) - www.cisco-futures.com/vgexplain.htm
(L5.8 )'Att Dir' is the attempted direction for current and previous day*
The possible values are: n for none, U for Up or D for Down. A rule of thumb for
Att Dir, after the close, measures F% (the close - POC distance) as a fraction of the day's range.
If F% is 20% or more above POC Att Dir = U, 20% below POC and Att Dir = D.
* The previous day data value is to the right of the '/'

So there are 2 differents (one that use Open and one that use Close) but similar (20% rule) methods to calculate same reference, the AD POC
Open method is from the most complete Trader Control Package, close is from Visual Graphic , so, as I understand (hope ...) we must use TCP references
.
Then ... question n. 1:
why there are 2 differents methods to calculate same reference, the AD POC?
question n. 2
do you think too that the close (VG) version is totally not understandable?

Moving to next step ...
so I started to build my spreadsheet with the TCP version of AD POC but found this post, just 1 year ago in Post# 375 mzvega posted this formula tht's in the excel sheet that use Open:
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...12#post8585012

Is the POC is greater than the open by 20% of the range:

Att dir= IF(POC>=(H-L*20%)>Open,"Up",IF(POC <=(H-L*20%)< Open,"Down","Null"))

The formula appears related to the TCP method but i think there is an error with parenthesis and opertors
(H-L*20%) is different from (H-L)*20% and don't understand the >Open and <Open too.

I don't know if it's an early version that was edited and corrected in a second time
... or if it's right but I really don't understand the logic.
probably the right formula is
Att dir= IF(POC>=((H-L)*20%)+Open),"Up",IF(POC <=(Open-(H-L)*20%)),"Down","Null"))

Can you check?

Thank you all
  • #970
  • Nov 9, 2016 9:08am Nov 9, 2016 9:08am
Quoting thetail
Hi that's me again .... long post on the Attempted Direction Starting with some references: from FAQ - twww.cisco-futures.com\faq.html What is the 'Attempted Direction'? Attempted Direction (AD): EOD measure of of the direction the market tried to go today. If POC is 20% or more of the day's range above the open, AD is up. If POC is 20% or less of the day's range below the open, AD is down. See Mind Over Markets, p 178, p 192,3 for detail. Value Area Direction: Direction of Value Area (up or down from yesterday). from FAQ G. Trader Control Package...
Quoting thetail
See Mind Over Markets, p 178, p 192,3 for detail.
and what did it say when you read the "detail"?

Mind over markets is about MP.
What does it say in VBPT?
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #971
  • Nov 9, 2016 10:13am Nov 9, 2016 10:13am
Quoting mzvega
{quote} {quote} and what did it say when you read the "detail"? Mind over markets is about MP. What does it say in VBPT?
welll ... nothing ... there is nothing about POC and 20% rule in MOM or VBPT, the only references are on Cisco website
  • #972
  • Edited 7:11pm Nov 9, 2016 6:24pm | Edited 7:11pm
Quoting thetail
Hi that's me again .... why there are 2 differents methods to calculate same reference, the AD POC?.
DTE, TCP, VG, Value analytics etc. are all different tools. They all have some of the same raw data. How that data is used depends on the tool.

Different tools use different methods using the same raw data

Attempted direction used in AMVA is used in the context described in Value analytics Market Condition Report (2f.). Not the TCP,DTE, or VG.

That is a very old spreadsheet I no longer use. For a time I used the data from the VG. With my limited programming skills, at the time it was used to give me a "quick & dirty" tool to use to trade with while I acquired the skills to learn the programming needed model my spreadsheets using the data from the Value analytics Market Condition Report.

I keep a working database, used for everyday analysis and one I use to update, add to, and refine as my programming skills improve. I swap them out from time to time. Many of my cell references are not the results from excel cell formulas, rather from data that has been passed through a python function. So yes my excel formulas have either changed or been eliminated altogether by passing the data through a python function.

Create your own spreadsheets using data from Value analytics Market Condition Report. Not my spread sheets.

Please stop trying to learn this through formulas you see in my old spreadsheets in past posts. Use the formulas spelled out in the source material for the Value analytics Market Condition Report. Not my spread sheets.

But you are correct the formula is wrong and the references used in that att dir calculation in that old spreadsheet are not the same references & att dir calculations used in the Value analytics Market Condition Report

So the att dir calculations used in that old spread sheet are not the same att dir calculations used in the Value analytics Market Condition Report used in my spreadsheets currently.

Getting a formula from the FAQ, doesn't explain the "context" in which it is used.

Yes , att dir is a reference, it's calculation and meaning depends on the "context" in which it is used.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #973
  • Nov 27, 2016 8:43pm Nov 27, 2016 8:43pm
From my understanding so far of AMVA we look to take breakout trades of the 5d bracketed overlays when the 10d is in balance. GBP/USD has just done this on my chart, but I won't post any screenshot because my own tools are still incomplete. Do you typically wait until M30 close or EOD close, or just go for it as soon as it happens?
  • #974
  • Edited 12:11pm Nov 28, 2016 10:18am | Edited 12:11pm
Quoting Krw
From my understanding so far of AMVA we look to take breakout trades of the 5d bracketed overlays when the 10d is in balance. GBP/USD has just done this on my chart, but I won't post any screenshot because my own tools are still incomplete. Do you typically wait until M30 close or EOD close, or just go for it as soon as it happens?
You don't do anything unless the data (analysis) supports the trade and having a firm understanding of where we lay within the current Market Unit.

The bracketing 5 & 10 is the market condition (criteria) in which to "look" for opportunities. "Condition" determines your strategy. Analysis always starts with "condition" first. Then, you use analysis of the data to determine if the data supports the trade or not. Not all balanced conditions lead to or result in a break out. i.e. if the data tells you that we have been trending (not bracketing) for several days and just recently came into a bracket, any BO/ or attempted BO of that newly formed bracket will more likely be "testing for trend end" rather than a "testing for new trend".

This is why pattern recognition fails. A balance looks like a balance. Without any form of analysis how do you know if that BO of balance is the result of a "test for trend end" or a "test for new trend"? Simply understanding where we lay within the market unit is one way to determine if a BO of balance/bracket is worth the trading risk or not. Trading every bo on an indicator, is trading the "indicator". Here we are making trading decisions from the data/info generated by the indicator. You should not be taking a trade just because price crossed some line on a indicator, you should take a trade if the data from indicator supports the trade. If the data tells you the market is "testing for trend end", it would be foolish to position yourself for a "test of new trend".

You need more of a reason than a price crossing of an indicator to make a sound trading decision.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #975
  • Nov 28, 2016 3:48pm Nov 28, 2016 3:48pm
Thank you for that very good explanation. I've got much study to do.

"Inside the balance you are dealing with non-directional volatility. In the trend, market movement is dominated by directionality, with volatility secondary." - The Market Unit - Jones
  • #976
  • Dec 7, 2016 1:52am Dec 7, 2016 1:52am
Hello everyone,

many thanks to mzvega for this wonderful thread, i'm slowly reading MOM and VBPT, it's been a blast, with christmas holiday i'm planning to finish everything and read also all the post here.

I'm really overwhelmed sometimes with all this new cocept, but i like to learn, study and understand things.

For now i just want to know, wich thing should i study and learn other than MOM and VBPT to get a good grasp of the method. Wich are the step to get all the theory and basics to start using the method?

My final goal is to create an Indicator/EA that completely do all the calculation directly on mt4, maybe i will need your help to know exactly wich info are necessary for the decision making process.
I will share it also, and I will need your help to test it and see if it's working properly or have some sort of bug.

Again many thanks fot this thread.
  • #977
  • Dec 7, 2016 10:50am Dec 7, 2016 10:50am
Bignuts,
Remember when you take this journey what Mzvega uses to say always "I don't trade the charts but the numbers." What are the differences? Just to prepare you.
JP
  • #978
  • Edited 2:53pm Dec 7, 2016 11:39am | Edited 2:53pm
Quoting JPworks
Bignuts, Remember when you take this journey what Mzvega uses to say always "I don't trade the charts but the numbers." What are the differences? Just to prepare you. JP
JPworks, from my understanding we trade Value, not only price

Anyway the difference is laying in the fact that we are seeking the change in value during a period of time, we don't care about charts, that's what i'm understanding with my little knowledge. Am I right?
  • #979
  • Dec 8, 2016 11:15am Dec 8, 2016 11:15am
Quoting bignuts
{quote} JPworks, from my understanding we trade Value, not only price Anyway the difference is laying in the fact that we are seeking the change in value during a period of time, we don't care about charts, that's what i'm understanding with my little knowledge. Am I right?
Read just every available material you get, you will soon come into terms yourself whether all fits into an indicator, expert advisor or even into a single data processing application.
  • #980
  • Dec 8, 2016 3:01pm Dec 8, 2016 3:01pm
Quoting bignuts
Hello everyone, many thanks to mzvega for this wonderful thread, i'm slowly reading MOM and VBPT, it's been a blast, with christmas holiday i'm planning to finish everything and read also all the post here. I'm really overwhelmed sometimes with all this new cocept, but i like to learn, study and understand things. For now i just want to know, wich thing should i study and learn other than MOM and VBPT to get a good grasp of the method. Wich are the step to get all the theory and basics to start using the method? My final goal is to create an Indicator/EA...
Reading VBPT is a prerequisite for the information found on the site. If one hasnt read VBPT , they may find the info and empirical research hard to follow.
Home page https://web.archive.org/web/20131122143526/http://www.cisco-futures.com/
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Value Analytics https://web.archive.org/web/20130902181100/http://cisco-futures.com/amva_fs.html
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Many of the earlier links in the thread no longer work and need updating, but all links can be found in the following links. I will post a list of updated links from previous posts when I have a minute.

I will post these links in post #1 for convenience
Home page https://web.archive.org/web/20131122143526/http://www.cisco-futures.com/
References https://web.archive.org/web/20151107023956/http://www.ciscofutures.com/References.html
Value Analytics https://web.archive.org/web/20130902181100/http://cisco-futures.com/amva_fs.html
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
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