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The Rabbit Hole

  • #741
  • Oct 31, 2016 11:19am Oct 31, 2016 11:19am
Quoting jen101
{quote} Yeah, only 83 children. Well, where I come from we value the lives of our children. Cars, buses, planes, trains, horse and cart etc. is another argument altogether.
By the way. Your guilt trip attempt is really low.
  • #742
  • Edited 10:40pm Oct 31, 2016 12:41pm | Edited 10:40pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} In the US it is a right. I am very proud of it. You don't understand "militia" as it is referred to in our constitution. It has nothing to do with the military or anything like that. A little studying will reveal the real intent of an armed militia was the ant-federalists and federalists wanting to be able to protect themselves from an overly powerful government in addition to being able to protect themselves in general. Regarding your comment "useless in combat": You assume all of us gun owners buy a gun and do nothing else. the vast majority...
Then indeed, considering the big picture, I am in accordance with your convictions.
  • #743
  • Oct 31, 2016 12:45pm Oct 31, 2016 12:45pm
Quoting Winston Reed
{quote} By the way. Your guilt trip attempt is really low.
May I request that you refrain from personal insults. If you wish to insult me personally then please provide the appropriate evidence as stated in post 1. By that I mean on a personal level.
  • #744
  • Oct 31, 2016 12:57pm Oct 31, 2016 12:57pm
As I mentioned previously armed burglaries in the UK are virtually non existent. I will say why. Anyone caught with an illegal firearm, and by illegal I mean unlicensed, will get a mandatory, minimum custodial sentence of 5 years. A normal burglary if caught, you may get 3 years. Make that armed and it's 18 years. Chances are you will be caught. We have CCTV everywhere. We have more surveillance than anywhere else in the world.

An armed response team with the full works, dogs and helicopters, will be at at a scene of an armed suspect in a matter of minutes. Guns attract an awful lot of attention. This is not to say the UK is free of any gun crime, far from it, but guns are the preserve of the top end criminals, involving gangs and drugs and serious shit. An opportunist burglar is not going to go to the effort of trying to get hold of an illegal weapon but more importantly is not going to take the risk.
  • #745
  • Edited 4:38pm Oct 31, 2016 1:40pm | Edited 4:38pm
So,
Switzerland has the 4th highest gun ownership at 45.7 guns per 100 people and the lowest crime rate in the world with a murder rate of .49 per 100,000.

Iceland has the 4th highest gun ownership at 30.3 guns per 100 people and the third lowest crime rate in the world with a murder rate of 26 in 4 years.

South Africa has the 48th highest gun ownership at 12.7 guns per 100 people and the highest crime rate in the world with a murder rate of 32 per 100,000 and the highest rape rate in the world.

Honduras has the 87th highest gun ownership at 6.2 guns per 100 people and the 2nd highest crime rate in the world with a murder rate of 90 per 100,000.

So explain again how gun ownership equates to murder and crimes? People kill people. Sometimes guns are used. The availability is clearly not a deciding factor.

If we look at history the lack of means to defend ourselves from tyranny is a leading cause of suppression. Suppression has led to some of the greatest rates of violent loss of lives in history. It would seem foolish to close our eyes to this in the name of protecting one life. Life, like trading is about odds not certainties. It is about the long run and the greater good.
  • #746
  • Edited 2:14pm Oct 31, 2016 1:52pm | Edited 2:14pm
Quoting jen101
{quote} May I request that you refrain from personal insults. If you wish to insult me personally then please provide the appropriate evidence as stated in post 1. By that I mean on a personal level.
You did back of the hand insult Winston lol.

"Well, where I come from we value the lives of our children."

That suggests where Winston comes from they don't give a shit about their kids.

Guns is a hot issue.
  • #747
  • Oct 31, 2016 3:06pm Oct 31, 2016 3:06pm
Quoting verv
{quote} You did back of the hand insult Winston lol. "Well, where I come from we value the lives of our children." That suggests where Winston comes from they don't give a shit about their kids. Guns is a hot issue.
There have been earlier points additionally to which I chose to turn a blind eye. I do not wish to rake them up.

I have no idea if some Americans give a shit about their kids. The figures I quoted suggest not.
  • #748
  • Nov 1, 2016 1:12am Nov 1, 2016 1:12am
Quoting verv
{quote} You did back of the hand insult Winston lol. "Well, where I come from we value the lives of our children." That suggests where Winston comes from they don't give a shit about their kids. Guns is a hot issue.
At this juncture, and with some support to verv, I wish to point out that the main reason that guns are written into the American constitution is because of the actions of the British government. It may therefore be wiser for we British to recognise this fact before pointing too many fingers.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #749
  • Edited 3:09am Nov 1, 2016 2:26am | Edited 3:09am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} At this juncture, and with some support to verv, I wish to point out that the main reason that guns are written into the American constitution is because of the actions of the British government. It may therefore be wiser for we British to recognise this fact before pointing too many fingers.
It is odd that you mention that, I watched a interview with recently deceased US supreme court judge antonin scalia last week and he happened to be talked about them investigating the basis of the right to bear arms of the American constitution, and trying to decipher what the written law meant. It ended up talking him back to British law, and the British bill of rights were we used to have the right to bear arms, but for some reason now we don't and the people never voted on it (I don't think).
  • #750
  • Edited 4:29am Nov 1, 2016 4:18am | Edited 4:29am
Quoting jen101
As I mentioned previously armed burglaries in the UK are virtually non existent. I will say why. Anyone caught with an illegal firearm, and by illegal I mean unlicensed, will get a mandatory, minimum custodial sentence of 5 years. A normal burglary if caught, you may get 3 years. Make that armed and it's 18 years. Chances are you will be caught. We have CCTV everywhere. We have more surveillance than anywhere else in the world. An armed response team with the full works, dogs and helicopters, will be at at a scene of an armed suspect in a matter...

sorry but you faith in CCTV is nave at best criminals have multiple way's of getting around it like planned routes/fake number plates/stolen cars and just covering your face they prevent very little crime. also gun laws in the uk have been ramped up 3 times I know of and gun's are at a all time high for easy access partly because of open borders in London even teen's can get them easily. also your idea if someone robbed your house with a gun the police will come with dogs and helicopters is hilarious to me I hope am not proven right but THIS WILL NOT HAPPEN sorry you have a false sense of security on this. guns do not attention a lot of attention in a busy city their are like background noise/fireworks even in a quiet countryside I do not think they will draw to much attention form your neighbours odds are they will be asleep or think someone just shot a game bird. guns are not for top end criminals am sorry it's just not true in the slightest idiots will bring them to a party just to show off I have seen some guy's leave a party in the shittiest convertible shooting in the air for no obvious reason at all whilst driving through traffic lights(with CCTV) and no police in helicopters come around it would have been very easy to catch them but no effort was made to arrest them
  • #751
  • Nov 1, 2016 4:28am Nov 1, 2016 4:28am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} At this juncture, and with some support to verv, I wish to point out that the main reason that guns are written into the American constitution is because of the actions of the British government. It may therefore be wiser for we British to recognise this fact before pointing too many fingers.
I think most of you are missing my point. My point is that I do not see any desire or need for guns in the UK. I have made my case for that very clear and my views are in line with the majority of British people. America is a totally different beast; it's so vast and in some parts you have people blowing each other apart, and in other parts they are sane and responsible. It's not my problem or concern. To be honest I think it's all a bloody mess but you lot seem happy with your status quo, so just let it be. I am happy to debate on facts presented but there have been accusations and insults thrown on a purely emotive level. I have a problem with that and that is not the spirit of this thread. If I wanted to "bash" America, there is a plethora of quantifiable shit for me to choose from - I don't need to try and offer opinions from a wide range of qualified people or put together verifiable statistics.
  • #752
  • Nov 1, 2016 5:28am Nov 1, 2016 5:28am
Verv, thanks for that story. I'm still mulling it over. The natural response to danger is the classic fight or flight. I think perhaps the difference between myself and most here is that I will always choose the latter option.
  • #753
  • Nov 1, 2016 5:43am Nov 1, 2016 5:43am
The situation above is of course not typical. And to be honest, a repeat of that is unlikely on the mainland GB, but the UK is not immune to spontaneous rioting.

That experience above has made me suspicious of any extreme socialist movement, or any extreme nationalist movement as both can be used as justification for terrible things.

However here is a pressure point for the UK, sent to me by an American friend. "The UK is only 9 meals from anarchy" - a sensationalist headline of course.
''http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1024833/Nine-meals-anarchy--Britain-facing-real-food-crisis.html''

But we in the UK have a major strategic weakness, being on an overpopulated island nation we simply cannot produce enough food to fed ourselves.
  • #754
  • Nov 1, 2016 6:08am Nov 1, 2016 6:08am
Quoting verv
The situation above is of course not typical. And to be honest, a repeat of that is unlikely on the mainland GB, but the UK is not immune to spontaneous rioting. That experience above has made me suspicious of any extreme socialist movement, or any extreme nationalist movement as both can be used as justification for terrible things. However here is a pressure point for the UK, sent to me by an American friend. "The UK is only 9 meals from anarchy" - a sensationalist headline of course. ''http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1024833/Nine-meals-anarchy--Britain-facing-real-food-crisis.html''...
....a bit like the closeness of the shave we experienced in 2008 when Lehman went tits-up. If they had been even slightly acknowledging towards the deepness of their mire we might have had a different outcome. However right up until 24 hours before the event Lehman were insisting that everything was fine.

The result of that was that suddenly no bank would trust any other bank. International trade ground to a halt as the escrow system collapsed ... and was saved by the actions of people like Gordon FW Brown as governments collaborated to under-write international payments.

Imagine if your cashcard/Mastercard suddenly was not accepted anywhere, and the cashpoints are empty because you didn't react quickly enough. Then we would have anarchy. It is never far away, and that is why we lie to our children.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
  • #755
  • Edited 7:36am Nov 1, 2016 6:35am | Edited 7:36am
Quoting Exodus
{quote} ....a bit like the closeness of the shave we experienced in 2008 when Lehman went tits-up. If they had been even slightly acknowledging towards the deepness of their mire we might have had a different outcome. However right up until 24 hours before the event Lehman were insisting that everything was fine. The result of that was that suddenly no bank would trust any other bank. International trade ground to a halt as the escrow system collapsed ... and was saved by the actions of people like Gordon FW Brown as governments collaborated to...
Yes anarchy is probably a lot closer than it appears. I really should start getting a month of food small chance anything should happen in my lifetime.

You can buy bulk powders from places like myprotein which taste awful but should last nearly indefinitely if they are kept dry, a few bags of 5kg oats and protein powder could prove useful at some point in your life.
  • #756
  • Nov 1, 2016 8:05am Nov 1, 2016 8:05am
Quoting Ross88
{quote} sorry but you faith in CCTV is nave at best criminals have multiple way's of getting around it like planned routes/fake number plates/stolen cars and just covering your face they prevent very little crime. also gun laws in the uk have been ramped up 3 times I know of and gun's are at a all time high for easy access partly because of open borders in London even teen's can get them easily. also your idea if someone robbed your house with a gun the police will come with dogs and helicopters is hilarious to me I hope am not proven right but...
Where are you?
  • #757
  • Nov 1, 2016 8:45am Nov 1, 2016 8:45am
https://youtu.be/HQK6Ds_tPpE

Alright! Lets get away for awhile! I really don't want this thread to be blown up due to insults being hurled at one another for lack of understanding for each other 's views. I know I am guilty as the same so will try harder too. Remember we all in this together so try to be respectful when debating one another, or otherwise just refrain from commenting altogether! Peace!
  • #758
  • Nov 1, 2016 9:16am Nov 1, 2016 9:16am
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
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I went and saw this movie last night. I highly recommend seeing it. Probably the best movie produced from Marvel so far! Very thought provoking, and it is easy to see Stan Lee's genius at work here. Loved it! A good anecdote for mental masturbation!
  • #759
  • Nov 1, 2016 10:52am Nov 1, 2016 10:52am
I think any version of NI will contain gross distortions. Both sides of the sectarian divide have cases to answer
  • #760
  • Nov 2, 2016 1:31am Nov 2, 2016 1:31am
Quoting verv
Quote
Quoting ThunderHeart (http://www.forexfactory.com/showthread.php?p=9229816#post9229816)
{quote} Thanks for sharing your story. I find this interesting. What is the current state of things in present day? Are there still lingering tensions, or contempt?
Certainly a lot better than it used to be.
I remember the effects of the NI ceasefire. In the UK and prior to this one had to be careful about where one went for entertainment. Kids were discouraged from wearing 'camo' clothing .. just in case. After the ceasefire there was a noticeable easing in public mood ... and rubbish bins reappeared in shopping malls.

Then at the turn of the Century TB afflicted our society and things went into reverse from then.
Carbon-Dioxide: the gas of life! https://youtu.be/ttJBdr6eBuo
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