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  • #921
  • Edited 1:52pm Oct 20, 2016 12:37pm | Edited 1:52pm
mzvega, in some previous post you explained 3 tpo as place for entry. Is it area where is last buyer/seller?
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...02#post8956302
...and what is indicator on picture?

Here in this explanation is anything to say about last buyer/seller or to look somewhere else.
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...78#post8950778

I am looking for last buyer/seller because that is where changes come from.

Thank you.
  • #922
  • Edited 2:38pm Oct 20, 2016 2:24pm | Edited 2:38pm
Why my profiles looks so different then in mzvega's post #904?
TPOs in distribution 3,5,5,5 everything else as default in indicator.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDM30-mpc.png Size: 175 KB
  • #923
  • Oct 20, 2016 5:40pm Oct 20, 2016 5:40pm
Quoting ruma29
mzvega, in some previous post you explained 3 tpo as place for entry. Is it area where is last buyer/seller? http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...02#post8956302 ...and what is indicator on picture? Here in this explanation is anything to say about last buyer/seller or to look somewhere else. http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...78#post8950778 I am looking for last buyer/seller because that is where changes come from. Thank you.
You have taken the images out of their proper context. It was a visual explanation as to why candlesticks (OHLC time series) are not a permitted practice in AMVT. Why marking the high/low range of candles and calling it "Value"(S&R, S&D). Does not produce the same numeric "values" (S&R) using "market generated data". OHLC data is skewed at best.

What I said, and I quote:

"A Pause Alert, by definition, comprises a minimum of three complete TPO's. Not candlesticks (bars). These are found inside the bars they mark "price and the time of occurrence". Candlesticks are 1 dimensional linear data marked by highs & Lows. TPO's are "price time events" inside the bar's. They are 2 dimensional, they contain elements of both price and time."

Quoting ruma29
mzvega, in some previous post you explained 3 tpo as place for entry. Is it area where is last buyer/seller?
No.
The indicator in the picture is a MP indicator https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/3033

Quoting ruma29
Here in this explanation is anything to say about last buyer/seller or to look somewhere else.
You tell me, Does it?.... You're too lazy to read the post and I'm too lazy to do it for you.

Let me make sure I understand correctly. You're too lazy to read the post yourself to see if it says anything about last buyer/seller. So, you want me to read it for you, and then give you my answer.
Are you for Real???????

Wouldn't the person who told you "that's where changes come from" be better qualified to help you locate last buyer/seller???

I didn't tell you "that's where changes come from", why should I have the burden of explaining and help you understand someone else's $h!T?

My help extends to the published source materials related to the thread.

I think this thread is long over due for the recycle bin.......
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #924
  • Oct 20, 2016 6:11pm Oct 20, 2016 6:11pm
Quoting mzvega
You tell me, Does it?.... You're too lazy to read the post and I'm too lazy to do it for you........
. reviewing reference points listed in that post couldn't conclude about last buyer /seller. I am slow person. If there is no more buyers(last buyer) sellers will drop price til find willing buyers....that is the change. If there is no more sellers( last seller) price will go up to find willing sellers...that is the change. that is how i think and believe that data has to show as well through some parameters and i am not knowledgeable yet to recognize it...
  • #925
  • Edited 7:45pm Oct 20, 2016 7:15pm | Edited 7:45pm
Quoting ruma29
{quote} . reviewing reference points listed in that post couldn't conclude about last buyer /seller. I am slow person. If there is no more buyers(last buyer) sellers will drop price til find willing buyers....that is the change. If there is no more sellers( last seller) price will go up to find willing sellers...that is the change. that is how i think and believe that data has to show as well through some parameters and i am not knowledgeable yet to recognize it...
Maybe because there is no "last buyer /seller" reference used
if you read the list of 30 or more references used in AMVA, "last buyer /seller" is not one of them.

Did you see post #1? The huge red letters explaining that this is not a MP thread.
Please read what the the topic of the thread is about before posting to it.

What you "think and believe" that data has to show is built off a faulty assumption that this thread has something to do with MP.
Again, Please read the thread before posting to it.

Being that you are a "slow person", I'll save you some time, read the first post, you'll realize this thread isn't for you.

If You want to learn about MP, read MOM. Participate in the MP thread.

If you want to learn about AMVT, give up your preconceived assumptions that this is the same thing as MP, read the thread/VBPT, find out why, read the published source materials.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #926
  • Edited 2:01am Oct 21, 2016 1:42am | Edited 2:01am
Hi

I think trader ruma has simply misunderstood the concept. Ruma, there is no such thing "Last buyer/seller". There is shutting off activity. When the buying/selling "stopps", thats called shutting off activity and some new traders may jump in (Dalton refers to them as laggards and innovators). Thats a theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_innovations). There is no exact reference point called "Last buyer/Seller". But that is already discussed in detail in the books and articles.

greetings
C
  • #927
  • Edited 6:21am Oct 21, 2016 2:45am | Edited 6:21am
Quoting dljonesFan
Hi ...
In book says:
"The Auction Framework
The marketplace facilitates trade with the dual auction process.
Basically, the market auctions up until there are no more buyers.
Then it reverses and moves down until there are no more sellers.
The end of an up auction is the beginning of a down auction, etc.
All market activity occurs within this broad framework-with the
market moving up to shut off buying and down to shut off selling."

So this is not my invention. It applies to trading avocado, houses, Forex...Whether trader use MP or AMVTA or TA or whatever will not change auction framework.

I have no clue why I got so much criticism.
  • #928
  • Edited 8:18am Oct 21, 2016 6:37am | Edited 8:18am
But it is good criticism. Its not to offend you. You will get better if you understand that.

Your quote is from the cbot market profiling manual. Thats mp trading method.

Have you read the "Value-Based Power Trading" book by Jones? There you will find your answer, if you want to learn auction market theory by Jones. Steidlmayers approach is different. You will not find an answer by looking at Steidlmayers books. And its very important to read Value Based Power Trading book first, before trading with auction market theory by Jones.

Your indi looks different because its a different date.

Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: EURUSDM30-mpc.png Size: 787 KB


Greetings
C
  • #929
  • Edited 11:33am Oct 21, 2016 8:07am | Edited 11:33am
What I recommend you to do:

1. You have already downloaded and started the indicator. Use price steps 1 (for more detail and bracketing)
2. Read the book.
3. Understand the book and stalk your indicator, how it developes. (You can do that by using the day shift function).
4. Extract the data from the indicator and get it into the tables discribed in the book (you can use excel for that job).
5. Understand the indi behaviour with all its reference points.

Or try to get membership in one of the courses by Jones.

There is no shortcut.

A lot of traders tried to find a shortcut, but get frustrated, because we cant give them a shortcut. They start to offend us and we have to ban them. Please dont do that. Its not that we want you to be frustrated or feel bad, its just the way it is. You have to study hard to learn the method...
  • #930
  • Oct 21, 2016 1:19pm Oct 21, 2016 1:19pm
Hi all, this is my first post here, but I'm a long time reader.
I finally found the time to build my personal AMVA-box so I have installed and learned python, for now I'm interacting with excel but the next step will be to a real database.
The first big thanks goes of course to mzvega, who acted as scouts and has traced the trail and made the way easiest to all and continues to dispense knowledge, thanks dljonesFan and EVAK for valuable high-level contributions, thanks to JPworks , sinqua and Krw to ask the questions that I would have done it myself, do not worry about that, in the next days you'll be in good company: D
Have a good weekend.
  • #931
  • Oct 22, 2016 4:31am Oct 22, 2016 4:31am
Hi trader thetail,

welcome to the thread.

"I finally found the time to build my personal AMVA-box"

What do you mean by "box"? Have you created an composite indicator or the tables?

greetings
Chris
  • #932
  • Edited 9:08am Oct 22, 2016 7:18am | Edited 9:08am
Quoting dljonesFan
Hi trader thetail, welcome to the thread. "I finally found the time to build my personal AMVA-box" What do you mean by "box"? Have you created an composite indicator or the tables? greetings Chris
hi dljonesFan, thanks.
only tables that mimics the mzvega spreadsheet, but they are still at the initial state, daily data update and some calculations have been coded in python and excel, but there are some points in the method that are not yet fully clear, tomorrow will post something
  • #933
  • Oct 23, 2016 10:20am Oct 23, 2016 10:20am
I shamefully forgot to thank another person ... thanks bandung for the various indicators that you have created in recent years and especially this dedicated to AMVT.

The AMVT is complex, the sources are different (CBOT, MOM, VBPT, cisco-futures, forexfactory), it is not easy to have everything clear, you risk get lost.
This is a map that I created, nothing new, just copy and paste, my working tool to consolidate in one place the information from multiple sources, where I add references and notes to try to have a clearer picture and remember where certain topics are contained.
Maybe it can be useful to someone, if you see something that is not right please let me note.
The scheme will help me to ask next days a few things that I have not clear in the construction of the analysis tool.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: AMVA Report Table.png Size: 162 KB
  • #934
  • Oct 23, 2016 12:44pm Oct 23, 2016 12:44pm
Do I need indicator as shown in post #659? If yes can someone upload it please...
  • #935
  • Oct 24, 2016 2:14am Oct 24, 2016 2:14am
Hi Ruma,

here is the link:

https://www.mql5.com/en/market/product/3033

Its the best tpo indi for mt4. So you should download it. Its not free, but not expensive.

Greetings
C

Quoting thetail
I shamefully forgot to thank another person ... thanks bandung for the various indicators that you have created in recent years and especially this dedicated to AMVT. The AMVT is complex, the sources are different (CBOT, MOM, VBPT, cisco-futures, forexfactory), it is not easy to have everything clear, you risk get lost. This is a map that I created, nothing new, just copy and paste, my working tool to consolidate in one place the information from multiple sources, where I add references and notes to try to have a clearer picture and remember where...
Hi thetail,

a good starting point is the book "Value Based Power Trading" by Jones. Then you have a good framework for studying the backgrounds.

greetings
C
  • #936
  • Oct 24, 2016 12:44pm Oct 24, 2016 12:44pm
Quoting dljonesFan
Hi thetail, a good starting point is the book "Value Based Power Trading" by Jones. Then you have a good framework for studying the backgrounds. greetings C
Thanks for the suggestion, but I've read and reread it several times, as well as MOM and cisco-futures site and every time you find something new.
Each source is full of important concepts, the cisco site-futures particularly is not really user-friendly, many topics are repeated or fragmented over several pages, so I made the scheme that I have used to build the "tool"
  • #937
  • Oct 24, 2016 2:27pm Oct 24, 2016 2:27pm
Ok, let's go with "things I do not understand - Part 1"... I took one of the last post of mzvega as an example,
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...48#post9206948

These questions refer to cells in the red rectangle
1- Att Dir column, first row:
should be the POC (point 2f: POC in my scheme), does not know if the result corresponds only to the last profile (DAY_1) or is the result of the comparison of (DAY_1 | DAY_2)

2- Att Dir column, second row:
this should be the Value Area Direction (reference from Visual Graphic in my scheme), here too I do not understand if it corresponds to the comparison of (DAY_1 | DAY_2) or if it is the result of the comparison between (DAY_1 | DAY_2) and (DAY_2 | DAY_3)

3- Dir column, first row:
is the synthesis of the two rows below Att Dir?

Here instead I am referring to cells in blue rectangles
4 - Daily column Dir
It corresponds to the Net for three days? or is the Internal Trend Direction from the Rotation Index/Quadrant of close?

I hope in your help, thank you
Attached Image
  • #938
  • Oct 25, 2016 4:34am Oct 25, 2016 4:34am
Quoting thetail
Ok, let's go with "things I do not understand - Part 1"... I took one of the last post of mzvega as an example, http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...48#post9206948 These questions refer to cells in the red rectangle 1- Att Dir column, first row: should be the POC (point 2f: POC in my scheme), does not know if the result corresponds only to the last profile (DAY_1) or is the result of the comparison of (DAY_1 | DAY_2) 2- Att Dir column, second row: this should be the Value Area Direction (reference from Visual Graphic in my...
2f does refer to poc, however it is used as follows:

(L5.8 )'Att Dir' is the attempted direction for current and previous day*
The possible values are: n for none, U for Up or D for Down. A rule of thumb for
Att Dir, after the close, measures F% (the close - POC distance) as a fraction of the day's
range. If F% is 20% or more above POC Att Dir = U, 20% below POC and Att Dir = D.

Data & references from the Visual Graphic report was condensed for it's easy scan format. But It lacked in info. That format was used for non subscribers. Cisco provided free access to its database on weekends. It only compared one day's value with the previous day. Not the 3 days used for the analytics. It was missing the 15 day profile (a weeks worth of data), etc..

quote from the following link......
"Advantages of Visual Graphic over Text data
1) Condensed: in half a page versus 10 pages
2) All graphs/data have a common price strip
3) Overlays all have same horizontal scale for TPO's
4) IT direction only in graphic
5) Graphical, easy scan format

Disadvantages of Visual Graphic over Text data
1) The common price strip means the latest day price can be over-condensed
2) In order to fit in 6 graphs, Overlay's #TPO's scale may be too compressed
3) Text gives actual prices and number of TPO's in Overlay
4) The 15 day Overlay is omitted in Visual Graphic
5) Other data is omitted (see below)
What is in the text data but not in the visual graphics:........."

Detailed explanation of the visual graphic & the above info
https://web.archive.org/web/20121121110512/http://www.cisco-futures.com/vgexplain.htmlx

For Value analytics we use the more detailed text data from the condition report.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110621...PLANATION.HTML

Data Sets from the Value analytics Market Condition Report, not the visual graphic
Read the links, "Background", "Sample" and "explanation" under resources left side of screen. For details about references used for value analytics.
https://web.archive.org/web/20121117...m/amva_fs.html

Quoting thetail
2- Att Dir column, second row: this should be the Value Area Direction (reference from Visual Graphic in my scheme), here too I do not understand if it corresponds to the comparison of (DAY_1 | DAY_2) or if it is the result of the comparison between (DAY_1 | DAY_2) and (DAY_2 | DAY_3)
No. It is the second reference used in 2f. Attempted Direction
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: T2.JPG Size: 172 KB


Quoting thetail
3- Dir column, first row:is the synthesis of the two rows below Att Dir?
yes

Quoting thetail
4 - Daily column Dir It corresponds to the Net for three days? or is the Internal Trend Direction from the Rotation Index/Quadrant of close
None of the above
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #939
  • Oct 25, 2016 6:16am Oct 25, 2016 6:16am
Have a look at the daytrading engine.

http://www.cisco-futures.com/daytrad...ackground.html

http://www.cisco-futures.com/daytrad..._example1.html
  • #940
  • Oct 26, 2016 11:22am Oct 26, 2016 11:22am
Thanks mzvega and dljonesFan for your efforts but I was already aware of the rule of 20% poc, and the fact that we use daily profiles, are already in my notes in the diagram I posted a few days ago, and the references too.

Perhaps I was not clear enough, english is not my first language so some nuance reading sources can be lost and trying to explain my doubt can be tricky.
I try again to explain what my specific doubt, sorry again.

To calculate other parameters (2a, 2b, 2c) which converge in "Dir, Act, Net" section, we compare day_1 with day_2, so we need data from 2 daily profiles.
But in this case, "Att Dir column, first line:" the AD: POC (20% rule ....), there is or there isn't comparison with day_2?
I mean ... it simply takes the day_1 data or even in this case there is the comparison with day_2 like all other reference points ?

So, if we use only day_1 data:
IF "DAY_1 AD: POC20% rule" = UP
THEN "Att Dir column, first row" = UP
(3 possible values: UP, DOWN or None)

is right? .. I hope..

Next step...
"Att Dir column, second row"
ok, this is the Rotation Factor, we compare day_1 and day_2
So:
IF day_1RF> day_2RF = Higher
THEN "Att Dir column, second row" = Higher
(3 possible values: Higher, Lower, Neutral)


And finally, "Dir column, first row"
In this specific case,
Dir = UP + Higher = High
(3 possible values: High, Low, Neutral)

I hope it's all right now ...

A final consideration which has helped increase my initial doubts:
the Rotation Factor then enters in the calculation 2 times. the first in the calculation of Dir of "Dir, Act, Net" section and the second time in Dir section via Att.Dir
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