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  • #801
  • Jul 25, 2016 9:19am Jul 25, 2016 9:19am
My Journey to this forum:
Mzvega,
When I say, it took you a lot of time to research this or (if I meant it took you a lot of time to reach a level of understanding), I meant both.
I was once using one of the "market profile" software. I knew from the chart poc (point of control) VAH, VAL (value area high and low) and tried to trade breakouts retracements and reversals like using any indicators we use in the chart. Then I was caught up in a dilemma, what I thought breakouts becomes reverses and what I thought reversal or retracement becomes breakouts. I understood I was using another chart indicator again. Then I start researching thinking there must be more into it.

That is how I came to the other forum to find out a quote from you that hooked my attention, "...I trade the "data" from the graphic, NOT the the picture itself..." Trading from "data" was foreign for me. For me "data" means candle (open, high, low and close), that is it. I went to your profile that lead me to this forum. I downloaded every material I found including putting this forum in my hard drive. I read until my eyes bleed but some of the important information slipped from my head and I am also not that young. That is why I am bombarding you with some silly questions so that I may recognize and get those which slip from my head. Please don't get disappointed when I come again with my other silly stuff that slip from my head. That is how I come to mind. Thank you. JP
  • #802
  • Jul 25, 2016 6:36pm Jul 25, 2016 6:36pm
Before learning AMVT, a person needs to read VBPT. VBPT was written for traders who already have a working knowledge of MP and MP "analysis". What I mean is the MP analysis using reference points as described by Dalton in MOM.

If people would actually read MOM , understood how auction markets operate, they wouldn't randomly trade VA for no other reason than because price crosses a line on the indicator.

Most MP traders I've experienced are too lazy to read so they prefer to follow thread posts, and watch a few 10 min youtube videos. Dalton's videos, 6 hr DVD set, subscription services, are directed at traders he has assumed have already read his book.

"Mind Over Markets 2nd Edition
It remains the foundational text in the teaching and is the cornerstone for the education and mentoring programs offered by J Dalton Trading.

What's new in this version of Mind Over Markets?
JD: Part of the beauty is that after 20 some years, the principles in the initial book are still valid. It has remained a best seller for over 20 years. Yes, todays market is faster and the info is disseminated quicker, yet the principles of the two-way continuous auction are as valid today as they were 20 years ago."
http://www.jdaltontrading.com/tradin...rkets-profile/

The fundamentals of MP analysis are found & taught in MOM. The references and what they mean in the different contexts. Those basic fundamentals can only be found in MOM. VBPT is a rather short book because it doesn't teach you about the references. The book was written for traders who already have a "working knowledge" of MP Analysis.

Here is an example directly out of MOM of what I mean by MP "analysis"
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Now compare the analysis to the analysis in VBPT
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Here is what I mean, this comes from MOM, it shows what these (examples) references mean in different "contexts".
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This applies to most of the references, they tell you something about the market. References aren't used for their "absolute values" as numeric trade "locations" on the chart, they are used for MP Analysis as spelled out by Dalton. You don't have to take my word for it, try reading the book.. There is a huge difference between trading a MP indicator, and trading using MP Analysis.......

So, AMVT is not very different from MP analysis, they basically use the same data and the process is basically the same...
If you know how to do MP analysis, you can easily learn AMVA analysis.......
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #803
  • Jul 25, 2016 8:45pm Jul 25, 2016 8:45pm
Quoting mzvega
Before learning AMVT, a person needs to read VBPT. VBPT was written for traders who already have a working knowledge of MP and MP "analysis"........
Capitally. Thank You very much.
  • #804
  • Jul 26, 2016 12:49am Jul 26, 2016 12:49am
"Mind over markets" is a must-read for every serious mp trader. Every chapter. Learned so much.
  • #805
  • Jul 26, 2016 12:38pm Jul 26, 2016 12:38pm
Quoting mzvega
Before learning AMVT, a person needs to read VBPT. VBPT was written for traders who already have a working knowledge of MP and MP "analysis". .......
Chris is absolutely right ... MP references are the building blocks of AMVT.
AMVT shouldn't be complex at all if you have a "working knowledge" of MP analysis.

Look at my MP analysis 5 years ago, this is way before Bandung created a handy export feature. I had to manually enter the daily references data each day. But because I read the book, understood the references and how they were calculated (the what & why), rather than do the analysis on paper or in my head on the fly, I could put that info into formulas in a spreadsheet to do the analysis for me. I was able to create a shortcut, without choosing the path of least resistance by bypassing "the analysis" altogether.
5 yrs ago
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...40#post4523040
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...61#post4520461
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...04#post4500304
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Here's a comparison of 5 yrs ago with one of the spreadsheets I use today..not much different. It's easy to explain the differences when you already have a working knowledge of MP analysis. What I mean when I say this is not a MP thread, I dont have time to "teach" someone how to do MP analysis, so I can explain AMVA analysis. If you read VBPT and you dont understand it, it's a pretty safe bet you dont have a firm understanding of the fundamental basics of MP "analysis".
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Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #806
  • Jul 26, 2016 9:09pm Jul 26, 2016 9:09pm
I trade AMT with Jigsaw in the the futures markets.
Looking at placing trades in certain periods such as "K".
I wonder if the application of this method would work in Forex with it being a 24 hour market. Much harder to plot differences.
Great work in the thread and its nice to see a real attempt at learning the insides and outs of a great system.
  • #807
  • Jul 27, 2016 12:48am Jul 27, 2016 12:48am
Quoting Sonofsin5
I trade AMT with Jigsaw in the the futures markets. Looking at placing trades in certain periods such as "K". I wonder if the application of this method would work in Forex with it being a 24 hour market. Much harder to plot differences. Great work in the thread and its nice to see a real attempt at learning the insides and outs of a great system.
Hi Trader,

"I trade AMT with Jigsaw in the the futures markets.
Looking at placing trades in certain periods such as "K"."

what do you mean by "certain periods" and how is it auction market theory (by Jones) related?
A Screenshoot would be nice. Thank you.

"I wonder if the application of this method would work in Forex with it being a 24 hour market."

There are no specific trading periods with open close ("human made") anymore, because the market activity is global (us session, eu session, asia session...) The market activity is ordered in market time (run and pause character). So why should the method not work with forex?

greetings
Chris
  • #808
  • Jul 27, 2016 2:03am Jul 27, 2016 2:03am
Quoting dljonesFan
{quote} Hi Trader, "I trade AMT with Jigsaw in the the futures markets. Looking at placing trades in certain periods such as "K"." what do you mean by "certain periods" and how is it auction market theory (by Jones) related? A Screenshoot would be nice. Thank you. "I wonder if the application of this method would work in Forex with it being a 24 hour market." There are no specific trading periods with open close ("human made") anymore, because the market activity is global (us session, eu session, asia session...) The market activity is ordered...
I may be wrong , but I think they may be referring to http://www.jigsawtrading.com/ they have a tool called "Auction" Vista Heat Map. It's deals with volume at price data, doom & tape reading. It's the same run of the mill volume profile stuff not associated with the topic of the thread. Just because the tool/indicator contains the word "Auction" doesn't make it AMVT related. Some people are under the impression that AMVT, MP, VP are considered to be the same thing. I'll spend about as much time & effort answering that post, as they spent reading the thread...
I am tired of posting the same stuff over & over & over again
Another case of someone posting to the thread without actually reading it first.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #809
  • Jul 27, 2016 6:28am Jul 27, 2016 6:28am
Thats strange.

So the trader is writing about a totaly different trading method and had never read the auction market theory thread...?

Why this comment: "Great work in the thread and its nice to see a real attempt at learning the insides and outs of a great system."

Just to write something? Even if it is a lie?
Cant understand such behavior.
Can you delete the last entries?
  • #810
  • Jul 28, 2016 6:09am Jul 28, 2016 6:09am
My questions are more directed towards working with the software required for data manipulation. I'm finding the concept difficult to grasp.

So I see that 3 Software's I usually used. a Spread sheet app, a Programming app, and a Database app.

Frankly I am lost on how to integrate these 3. What exactly is the role played by each?

Mzvega's shared video shows Python somehow manipulating the Excel sheets and storing the finished files.

Does the Python automate the calculations and heavy lifting/sorting of data INSIDE Excel? and then Save in a new Excel sheet?

Then what is to be done within Excel itself? If anything

LibreOffice is meant to solely store the finished files for Querying by the user?

Anyone willing to provide some sort of step by step guide on how they did theirs will be appreciated

Attached is a picture of the References I want to observe (will be updated as I continue reading MOM, VBPT & MML)

Some can be directly copied from the exported Badung files, others like Net flow and a few comparisons must be calculated.

Is python used to execute the Excel Macro that will do the copying and calculations?
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  • #811
  • Edited 8:49am Jul 28, 2016 8:36am | Edited 8:49am
Quoting sinqua
My questions are more directed towards working with the software required for data manipulation. I'm finding the concept difficult to grasp. So I see that 3 Software's I usually used. a Spread sheet app, a Programming app, and a Database app. Frankly I am lost on how to integrate these 3. What exactly is the role played by each? Mzvega's shared video shows Python somehow manipulating the Excel sheets and storing the finished files. Does the Python automate the calculations and heavy lifting/sorting of data INSIDE Excel? and then Save in a new Excel...
I am pressed for time at the moment.........
how exactly are you performing your EOD directional performance analysis currently?
Do you have a working knowledge of MP "analysis"?

Try reading these links.........
http://www.forexfactory.com/showthre...93#post9030693
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #812
  • Jul 28, 2016 8:41am Jul 28, 2016 8:41am
Hi trader sinqua,

my personal opinion is, that you can create your own software. Read the articles and you will see soon, what you need. Its not that complicated. I dont give you a list of what you need. Because its all in the articles and already presented here in the thread. Please have a closer look on Mzvegas posts. You will see soon, why Mzvega is using "Spread sheet app, a Programming app, and a Database app".

greetings
C
  • #813
  • Jul 28, 2016 9:40am Jul 28, 2016 9:40am
Reply to Mzvega

Q. How exactly are you performing your EOD directional performance analysis currently?

A. I have borrowed a leaf from your shared method.
1. I check for balance (Bracketing) on the 5 Day (1week), 14 Day (2 Week), and 20 Day (1 month). The Pause phase is easier to pinpoint.
2. Next I wait for a 3 Day bracket and check day to day changes in its bias (TPO Balance, RF) and wait for increased activity. (Volatility, TFF)
3. On confirmation. I will move to observe the 1 Day changes . Mainly Net flow (I plan to include a method to find out which currency is having the greater control over the pair movement). Vs current day's activity.
4. I am yet to develop an exact entry strategy (timing).

Q. Do you have a working knowledge of MP "analysis"?

A. Aside from that which I have absorbed from this thread, I am about 1/3 into MOM. And have read a few articles on cisco website shared.

Reply to Dljonesfan

I think you are right about this. I will have to re-read many parts of the thread over again, ultimately I have to develop a concept of data manipulation more suited to me. I am currently looking into having an EA read, format and update the data exported from Badungs indicator.

Thank you both.
  • #814
  • Edited 12:23pm Jul 28, 2016 11:55am | Edited 12:23pm
Quoting sinqua
Reply to Mzvega Q. How exactly are you performing your EOD directional performance analysis currently? A. I have borrowed a leaf from your shared method. 1. I check for balance (Bracketing) on the 5 Day (1week), 14 Day (2 Week), and 20 Day (1 month). The Pause phase is easier to pinpoint. 2. Next I wait for a 3 Day bracket and check day to day changes in its bias (TPO Balance, RF) and wait for increased activity. (Volatility, TFF) 3. On confirmation. I will move to observe the 1 Day changes . Mainly Net flow (I plan to include a method to find out...
I wanted to know if you already knew how to do MP analysis. Before you were attempting AMVA.
Directional performance analysis is a MP concept. The knowledge comes from reading MOM. The amount of info & time needed to share & explain MP directional performance analysis would encompass a book. So you haven't and won't find the method explained here.
The answer to both my questions seems to be None & No

Before you start searching for brackets, do you even know what a bracket is?
How do you check for balance (bracketing)? Since in AMVT we use quantifiable objective measures, what is the quantifiable measure of a bracket?

Do you even know what we are measuring and why?
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #815
  • Jul 28, 2016 3:30pm Jul 28, 2016 3:30pm
Is MOM 2nd edition in the list, I only find and have 1st edition? Thanks
  • #816
  • Jul 28, 2016 3:59pm Jul 28, 2016 3:59pm
Quoting JPworks
Is MOM 2nd edition in the list, I only find and have 1st edition? Thanks
No, it is identical to the original. It only difference is that it contains an extra chapter in the end.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #817
  • Jul 28, 2016 4:19pm Jul 28, 2016 4:19pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} No, it is identical to the original. It only difference is that it contains an extra chapter in the end.
Thank you. I was searching thinking I might have missed something very important.
  • #818
  • Jul 28, 2016 5:29pm Jul 28, 2016 5:29pm
Quoting mzvega
{quote} Before you start searching for brackets, do you even know what a bracket is? How do you check for balance (bracketing)? Since in AMVT we use quantifiable objective measures, what is the quantifiable measure of a bracket? Do you even know what we are measuring and why?

Bracket:A single MP or composite profile "engulfed" by 3 TPO's
Quantifiable measure: Distribution (i.e it has only 1 distribution not less than 3TPO's from top to bottom)

What: We are measuring value acceptance within a specific range of prices over time.
Why: Accepted value amongst buyers and sellers signifies "balance" from here on, other timeframe participants activity can be better observed as it is the other timeframe participants who move price directionally.

This is my understanding so far.

P.S: I am currently reading on measuring auction rotations in MOM. I really did read through almost every post in this thread to grasp the concepts you passed across, my understanding is better with action rather than theory (I have to see and take notes), so I am looking to "burn the candle at both ends". It will take at least a year by my estimate to fully begin to apply this theory and I am in no hurry to trade it.
  • #819
  • Jul 28, 2016 7:12pm Jul 28, 2016 7:12pm
Quoting sinqua
{quote} Bracket:A single MP or composite profile "engulfed" by 3 TPO's Quantifiable measure: Distribution (i.e it has only 1 distribution not less than 3TPO's from top to bottom) What: We are measuring value acceptance within a specific range of prices over time. Why: Accepted value amongst buyers and sellers signifies "balance" from here on, other timeframe participants activity can be better observed as it is the other timeframe participants who move price directionally. This is my understanding so far. P.S: I am currently reading on...
I am not sure I understand "engulfing" or "not less than 3 tpo's from top to bottom" but you're correct in 3 tpo's, however that is dependent on the tf chosen. You'll learn all those details when you read VBPT. The "what & why" was in context to all of the references, not just the bracket ref,. Since you are burning the candle at both ends I assume you'll learn them all eventually.
Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
  • #820
  • Edited 12:35pm Jul 29, 2016 12:00pm | Edited 12:35pm
Was a little late in my entry yest on eurusd
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I also had a late entry on nzdusd
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Here is a trade that I could have avoided or at least waited for I took the trade prematurely and most of the data did not support the trade at the time
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yest. usdchf trade
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Markets are not efficient, rather they are effective - Jones
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