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Trading Guru's - Real Deal or Fraudsters

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 14, 2016 12:45pm Jul 14, 2016 12:45pm
I have a passion to expose trading gurus for what they are and warn new traders that while these people might market themselves as money making professionals in reality, their methods don't work. Before we judge them I will let you the jury decide. We will take their methods and approach them with a scientific way, taking the core of their knowledge and dissecting it to establish are they honest and true or lying scammers.

To start the ball rolling I am going to throw in Larry Pesavento and Robert Minor. Pesavento claims he has discovered a pattern that makes money and was discovered by Gartley, Minor wrote a book called Dynamic Trader and believes in Elliot waves.

Lets put them to the test

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  • #2
  • Jul 14, 2016 12:59pm Jul 14, 2016 12:59pm
Mr Minor say that there are 5 waves up followed by a decline greater in price and time than any of the previous waves up. Usually the decline is a simple abc or a complex correction. Really, I don't think so
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Wow that worked except it didn't because Mr Minor does not talk about the expanding wave that can split into 5 parts, it can be any of the waves, 1,3 or 5, so how do you know when its going to happen, you don't. There is the problem, just when you finished counting to five, the wave expands and you are left guessing where this pesky wave is going to stop. Then he says all impulse waves come in five, well they do, except when they don't.

Counting from the bottom of 4 we see that wave 5 looks like its expanding, but it only gets to 3. What about wave 4 and 5??? Opps if you had bought the bottom of 2 hoping for a ride up to 5 you would have been smoked.
  • #3
  • Jul 14, 2016 1:01pm Jul 14, 2016 1:01pm
Hi Hurst,
Great ideea and useful too.Keep good working

Tusco
  • #4
  • Jul 14, 2016 1:21pm Jul 14, 2016 1:21pm
Here is a more recent one of the SP500, I can see the perfect 5 wave count, but its another failure.
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Mr Minor is looking like a bit of a scam artist to me. Now that does not mean that it never works, but I for one am sick of being presented with picture perfect counts, that have been hand picked to show a reality that simply does not exist. Markets do not from what I see conform to 5 waves up and three down, it is the ability of the human brain to only see what we want to see. Selective perception. Thinking the market will do one thing is a fools mission, having a bias based on patterns that don't work hold you back as a trader. You are convinced the market should fall and you only look for sell trades missing out on loads of great buying trades in the process.

To make money in the market you do not need to predict it.
  • #5
  • Jul 14, 2016 1:34pm Jul 14, 2016 1:34pm
i like this thread

bravo Hurst
  • #6
  • Jul 14, 2016 2:03pm Jul 14, 2016 2:03pm
Please guys comment, take the other side, lets make this a balanced discussion.
  • #7
  • Jul 14, 2016 2:15pm Jul 14, 2016 2:15pm
i dont know about these 2 guys but my top 5 ff fraudsters in no particular order : dovealliance, urusdd, cruciapoint, fxjay.
  • #8
  • Jul 14, 2016 2:30pm Jul 14, 2016 2:30pm
Quoting metta87
i dont know about these 2 guys but my top 5 ff fraudsters in no particular order : dovealliance, urusdd, cruciapoint, fxjay.
Nice but why so, no good in pointing a finger unless you say why., otherwise the court will throw out the accusation.
  • #9
  • Jul 14, 2016 11:46pm Jul 14, 2016 11:46pm
Gurus = can't make a dime with trading.

Case closed.
  • #10
  • Jul 15, 2016 12:06am Jul 15, 2016 12:06am

  1. Team Ocean Sky
  2. ICT


  • #11
  • Jul 15, 2016 12:56am Jul 15, 2016 12:56am
Quoting Hurst
I have a passion to expose trading gurus for what they are and warn new traders that while these people might market themselves as money making professionals in reality, their methods don't work. Before we judge them I will let you the jury decide. We will take their methods and approach them with a scientific way, taking the core of their knowledge and dissecting it to establish are they honest and true or lying scammers. To start the ball rolling I am going to throw in Larry Pesavento and Robert Minor. Pesavento claims he has discovered a pattern...
Why waste your time? Those who got/get scammed probably deserved it anyway and perhaps it is a rite of passage.

The so called gurus, if you observe usually take something that's already know, rehash it and then make it sound like its their own discovery.

One of the best examples is the guy Anil Mangal on Tradingview, who claims to be a hedge fund manager (but practically hangs out on Tradingview almost all day, every day). A re-packaged elliott waves and voila, he has his own "holy grail." Ridiculous to see the number of followers he has. Well, no pity for the gullible.

Another bigshot is Akil Stokes who thinks he's the Harmonic pattern guru. Well, one good thing about tradingview is there is past history to look at. And Mr. Stoke has more losers than winners.

I guess if one is stupid enough to fall for the hype, then they should probably get scammed.
  • #12
  • Jul 15, 2016 1:41am Jul 15, 2016 1:41am
Quoting metta87
i dont know about these 2 guys but my top 5 ff fraudsters in no particular order : dovealliance, urusdd, cruciapoint, fxjay.
We know the egomaniac gurus who hang out on ff when we see one.Your top 5 may not be mine exactly but there're plentiful fraudsters hanging out on ff. If you can't spot them you gotta be blind or too stupid or you are holding multiple accounts or their accomplice making twisted cheerleading posts. The giveaway is their persuasive language used rather than stay with objective facts. Not saying there're no genuine good guys on here though.
  • #13
  • Edited 3:11am Jul 15, 2016 2:52am | Edited 3:11am
Personally, I find Pesavento's work on Market Harmonics inspiring. Harmonic patterns need to be used in context. It may work for some and not for others, just like any other trading tool/method. I really don't care whether he was able to profit from it or not.
  • #14
  • Jul 15, 2016 2:04pm Jul 15, 2016 2:04pm
I find them really genious. they are excelent examples of how you should work, how you should develop your skills and personality in general. It's necessary to change the way of understanding Forex to attchieve great success
  • #15
  • Jul 15, 2016 5:00pm Jul 15, 2016 5:00pm
Well, I probably wouldn't have gotten in to trading without being lured by a clever marketing guy who offered very little but repackaged platitudes. Thus, I have severe mistrust of almost all of these guys. I understand wanting to perhaps mentor a few people, but when your focus turns to slick videos and all-out marketing of your teaching, then you are likely a crappy trader. Not always, but quite often.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #16
  • Jul 15, 2016 5:27pm Jul 15, 2016 5:27pm
OK LizardGizzard...take me on!

I´ve just started out and am still trying to work the hell out if it is at all worth getting into this business at all. I have never discovered such a business full of lies, untruths, misinformation, scams and con-artists in my life. But the intriguing part is that everyone secretly wants to believe that there is some way to make profit.

I would be willing to take on your advise and do whatever you suggest.
  • #17
  • Jul 15, 2016 6:42pm Jul 15, 2016 6:42pm
Ha ha. Well, I am certainly in no position to be offering advice except to learn for yourself and study the charts for thousands (literally thousands) of hours. I honestly don't think that trading CAN be taught. You just have to learn by doing and make many many costly mistakes. I don't believe anyone who says they were immediately profitable. Can't happen. Think of it as paying tuition, and holy hell, have i paid more tuition than I should have. If you want to learn bad enough, you'll keep pressing on, even after it has seemed impossible a hundred times. I'm still on that path.
There's always money in the banana stand.
  • #18
  • Jul 16, 2016 2:59am Jul 16, 2016 2:59am
So retail trading is basically gambling...and only those who really get addicted are able to say that have made a profit. It seems to be very similar to horse racing. For beginners it is very frustrating as they dont have experience or any knowledge about the horses or riders, and then with time you get to know the courses, trainers, horses, riders, blood lines etc so that there does seem a way to narrow the odds. Maybe there will be around 5-10 % of very experienced betters who could prove that they are making profits, but for the other 95% it really a game where the odds are very much stacked against them.
  • #19
  • Jul 16, 2016 8:30pm Jul 16, 2016 8:30pm
Quoting Robuck
OK LizardGizzard...take me on! Ive just started out and am still trying to work the hell out if it is at all worth getting into this business at all. I have never discovered such a business full of lies, untruths, misinformation, scams and con-artists in my life. But the intriguing part is that everyone secretly wants to believe that there is some way to make profit. I would be willing to take on your advise and do whatever you suggest.
Robuck. So I have these magic beans. Interested?

  • #20
  • Edited 2:09am Jul 17, 2016 1:47am | Edited 2:09am
I was also inspired by one of those charming guys, his name is Stephen Story, he actually gave good advices, but I never joined his coaching program.


All I know is that he was using EW as entries and Fibonacci as profit targets, I did believe him at first so I based my first couple entries on that but without positive results.


Years later I coded an EA that recognizes the full wave formation but the results weren't that good.
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