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Attachments: BREXIT RULES! The Consequences
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BREXIT RULES! The Consequences

  • #141
  • Jun 27, 2016 9:08am Jun 27, 2016 9:08am
Quoting kravmaga39
{quote} Who will stay then?The same do Boris and Farage or you believe they do for England?
You watch him . His next step is head of the Labour Party. He doesn't give a shit about London only his political future.
Ill lay odds on it.
  • #142
  • Jun 27, 2016 9:19am Jun 27, 2016 9:19am
Bus drivers son made good. Only in England can you do that, have a dream and fulfill it. If he runs for the top job he runs, but he cannot do it as Lord Mayor of London. Sometimes you have to give a little position of power but when push comes to shove its best left to the big boys. Boris to the manor born. Boris also has the Royal credentials for the top job. Khan has a lot to learn yet but who knows he may come round in the end we give everyone their due time.
  • #143
  • Jun 27, 2016 9:40am Jun 27, 2016 9:40am
Quoting Sniper2000
{quote} You watch him . His next step is head of the Labour Party. He doesn't give a shit about London only his political future. Ill lay odds on it.
Interesting..
When you accuse Kahn of self interest its OK.
When someone else accuses Boris, Gove, Farage et al of the same its not OK?
Have I got that straight?

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Everyone is entitled to their own Opinions..
Nobody is entitled to their own Facts.
  • #144
  • Jun 27, 2016 10:21am Jun 27, 2016 10:21am
Quoting Melchisalem
The Great ENGLISH BULLDOG is back so up your mr president.
Im glad you said "the Great ENGLISH Bulldog"
Because Brexit is just that.. an ENGLISH decision..
Since the Nation is called the United Kingdom ??
..and clearly London, Scotland and N Ireland are going to be dragged screaming down this path with you..
Lets see how that works out and makes BRITAIN Great again?.

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Everyone is entitled to their own Opinions..
Nobody is entitled to their own Facts.
  • #145
  • Jun 27, 2016 10:23am Jun 27, 2016 10:23am
Quoting Aspire
Consequences - Many and wide ranging. Millions of people across Europe have now witnessed that it can be done, a positive vote against being ruled by unelected people.
This is a lie perpetrated by Nigel Farage, who performed the huge confidence trick of getting himself elected to an institution he had no intention of supporting.

The European Commission doesnt make laws. It only makes proposals, which are then debated, amended and passed (or rejected) by elected national governments and directly-elected MEPs.
Gone to a better place
  • #146
  • Jun 27, 2016 10:24am Jun 27, 2016 10:24am
Cliff, they're all pretty much self-serving wankers. There are very few politicians that care more about the people than themselves, Jeremy Corbin is one, the trouble is his socialist views are pure fantasy but credit where it's due - he's certainly a man of principle. And I bet he doesn't even know how to open a bottle of Champagne unlike the rest of the champagne socialists...

PS. Jeremy, if you're reading give it a big shake and then use your thumb to help prize the cork off.
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #147
  • Edited 11:01am Jun 27, 2016 10:37am | Edited 11:01am
To avoid covering the same things over again.. Im reposting something froma news thread earlier on the subject of second referendums and legitimacy of the decision of June 23rd.

First Be clear. what Im suggesting here implies nothing about the legitimacy of the simple vote or the decision of people on the 23rd. Whats done is done. I simply make the point that that sometimes a simple majority system can create more problems than it solves, as unfortunately I fear the UK will learn to its cost in next couple of years.

So.. Simple majority referendums on very serious issues are subject in many developed countries to a dual majority qualification.
Which in the case of this last referendum, would have meant that in addition to a simple majority, a regional majority (given the UK system of devolved government) would have been required to trigger Brexit. This system is used internationally in many constitutional issues to avoid the adoption of very serious changes that otherwise would bring about serious national and regional divisions. As has happen here with Scotland London and N Ireland..

For example in Switzerland.. with whom I am most familiar, that seems to be held up as a democratic referendum model for imitation??
The passing of a constitutional amendment by initiative requires a double majority; not only must a majority of people vote for the amendment but a majority of cantons must also give their consent. This is to prevent a larger canton from foisting amendments onto the smaller ones and vice versa.

Those exploring the Democratic issue further should read this interesing view from Rogoff *
https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/brexit-democratic-failure-for-uk-by-kenneth-rogoff-2016-06#comments

* Kenneth Rogoff, Professor of Economics and Public Policy at Harvard University and recipient of the 2011 Deutsche Bank Prize in Financial Economics, was the chief economist of the International Monetary Fund from 2001 to 2003. If you are an ideological Brexiteer, dont bother.. (I mean what do F***ing experts know anyway).

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Everyone is entitled to their own Opinions..
Nobody is entitled to their own Facts.
  • #148
  • Jun 27, 2016 11:12am Jun 27, 2016 11:12am
Quoting Aspire
Consequences - Many and wide ranging. Millions of people across Europe have now witnessed that it can be done, a positive vote against being ruled by unelected people. Many will be seriously considering their future and cracks in the EU will start to appear. The pressure is on for the Governments concerned to fix those cracks. What are the consequences or risks of staying under EU rule with trade deals like CETA and TTIP. I am very concerned about what I have read of TTIP, you need to go and look. A current situation in the UK is causing a lot of...
Well I hope people in another EU countries will actually learn from Brexit and people like Farage,B.J. with some of freedom propaganda will be rejected.
  • #149
  • Edited 12:26pm Jun 27, 2016 12:04pm | Edited 12:26pm
All i know with out entering into debate of all the finer details focus on the foundations without feeding division . No matter what is layed upon the table of choice everyone as a whole is snookered as they are leveraged by the dollars. The game table is heavily weighted and its that fucker with the black hat and the mustache causing the havoc. The mustache bandit has an endless supply and until him and his army are thrown to the shit pile and army of people with dirt beneath their finger nails take control nothing will change.
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  • #150
  • Jun 27, 2016 1:17pm Jun 27, 2016 1:17pm
Quoting Sniper2000
{quote} You watch him . His next step is head of the Labour Party. He doesn't give a shit about London only his political future. Ill lay odds on it.
I think you are confusing him with Bojo.
Bojo has done 10 times the harm to London in the past few weeks than the good he did as mayor for 8 years.
Everything will be okay in the end. If it's not okay, it's not the end.
  • #151
  • Jun 27, 2016 1:33pm Jun 27, 2016 1:33pm
Quoting meyoik
{quote} Wow, it would be a real history changer if London decides to leave England....imagine London as a city state a la Liechtenstein (!) London would be the wealthiest city state, or territory, in the world.
Fascinating idea. Why not..since leaving has become a fashion? LoL
London economy makes a 34 billion net positive contribution to UK public finances.*
Dont think couple of B in EU contributions would bother them.

*Source: CoLER
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Everyone is entitled to their own Opinions..
Nobody is entitled to their own Facts.
  • #152
  • Jun 27, 2016 2:03pm Jun 27, 2016 2:03pm
On a similar point some reckon China could split in 2 if they ever suffer real economic/social problems in the future. The wealthy and 'sophisticated' Eastern seaboard splits from the poor hillbillies in the West. Rich versus poor etc, rich get tired of shipping their money to the other side. Sound familiar Germany?
Road To Wisdom? To err and err and err again, but less and less and less...
  • #153
  • Jun 27, 2016 2:16pm Jun 27, 2016 2:16pm
Quoting Calculus
On a similar point some reckon China could split in 2 if they ever suffer real economic/social problems in the future. The wealthy and 'sophisticated' Eastern seaboard splits from the poor hillbillies in the West. Rich versus poor etc, rich get tired of shipping their money to the other side. Sound familiar Germany?
Hmmm.. Interesting case you highlight.. @Calculus*
But No news in this phenomenon..
Italy's Northern League have been trying to ditch the south for years.
Catalonia wants independence from Spain..(Extramadura/Andalucia etc) etc etc..
same old / same old..

*Incidently been big fan of Tintin for years and years..
love the [email protected] name.
  • #154
  • Jun 27, 2016 5:31pm Jun 27, 2016 5:31pm
Europe starts to be nightmare for you guys.Even England football team vote for exit EURO.Bloody hell you took that really seriously.I hate now even more Bojo and Farage how strong influence they have!!
http://mashable.com/2016/06/27/england-iceland-euro-jokes/?utm_campaign=Mash-Prod-RSS-Feedburner-All-Partial&utm_cid=Mash-Prod-RSS-Feedburner-All-Partial#VqXMQhrEvgq8
  • #155
  • Jun 27, 2016 5:45pm Jun 27, 2016 5:45pm
Quoting cliffedwards
So.. Simple majority referendums on very serious issues are subject in many developed countries to a dual majority qualification. Which in the case of this last referendum, would have meant that in addition to a simple majority, a regional majority (given the UK system of devolved government) would have been required to trigger Brexit. This system is used internationally in many constitutional issues to avoid the adoption of very serious changes that otherwise would bring about serious national and regional divisions. As has happen here with Scotland...
Well that might work in Switzerland where there are lots of cantons, but if you tried to do it in the UK by country it couldn't work because there are only four. To get a majority it would have to be 75% of the countries. If you do it by "regions" then a majority did vote out (see here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/)). Considering "counting areas", the majority voted out: "Leave polled the most strongly in 270 counting areas, with Remain coming first in 129."
So by all measures (apart from countries), the majority voted out.
  • #156
  • Jun 27, 2016 6:06pm Jun 27, 2016 6:06pm
hi Kravmaga yeah a bloody disaster, I wish I had a bet on Iceland 12/1 against 6/1 for England win but I don't gamble. Could have turned £100 into £1200 in ninety minutes. Better than some forex trades lol. Well with such bad news for England maybe the GBP will start rising again.
  • #157
  • Jun 27, 2016 6:21pm Jun 27, 2016 6:21pm
don't think I want to wake up in the morning the way things are going here it might be wiser for a life exit all together. I might be rich in heaven lol. Financial suicide sucks worse than gravity.
  • #158
  • Edited Jun 28, 2016 3:27am Jun 27, 2016 8:37pm | Edited Jun 28, 2016 3:27am
Quoting eurotrash
{quote} Well that might work in Switzerland where there are lots of cantons, but if you tried to do it in the UK by country it couldn't work because there are only four. To get a majority it would have to be 75% of the countries. If you do it by "regions" then a majority did vote out (see here (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/leave-or-remain-eu-referendum-results-and-live-maps/)). Considering "counting areas", the majority voted out: "Leave polled the most strongly in 270 counting areas, with Remain coming first in 129." So...
My post was as it said for information.. using the Swiss example as a model.
However you make good point in relation to their models in-applicability to the UK where there are just 4 countries.

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Everyone is entitled to their own Opinions..
Nobody is entitled to their own Facts.
  • #159
  • Jun 28, 2016 2:44am Jun 28, 2016 2:44am
Quoting cliffedwards
{quote} ......... Because Brexit is just that.. an ENGLISH decision...
What about Wales ?

I heard that per capita Wales gets more money from the EU.
  • #160
  • Edited 3:27am Jun 28, 2016 3:13am | Edited 3:27am
The $2.08 trillion wiped off global equity markets on Friday after Britain voted to leave the European Union was the biggest daily loss ever, trumping the Lehman Brothers bankruptcy during the 2008 financial crisis and the Black Monday stock market crash of 1987, according to Standard & Poor's Dow Jones Indices.

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Everyone is entitled to their own Opinions..
Nobody is entitled to their own Facts.
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