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  • #41
  • Apr 22, 2016 6:21pm Apr 22, 2016 6:21pm
I think question nr.1 could be using a better wording. The question mixes analysis with trading strategy which maybe based on the anaylsis but is IMO aiming at totally different aspects.The strategy touches upon questions of risk management,use of SL and TP,enter and exit etc.
  • #42
  • Apr 22, 2016 6:41pm Apr 22, 2016 6:41pm
You do need to give this style of inquiry away. It can NOT work. Such a bland and boring survey will get nothing out of anyone. That, and your survey questions are of extremely poor quality, and they contain only bias.

The ONLY thing you can collect from such a survey is your own bias of the way you have framed/asked the questions. For each question, you offer 5 choices. Yet each question you have asked has many dozens of CATEGORIES of answers.

I know it is just a Uni course thing you are doing. And I know surveys are laid down by Unis as "the way of scientific method".

Find a better way. Your opening post was interesting. Your survey is wrong, and will fail.

Quoting swissyking
{quote} Hi, I fully acknowledge what you mean, but the point of a the questionnaire is to get an understanding of the way traders operate, this will allow one to gain valuable insight the way traders sees some characteristics of trading
  • #43
  • Apr 23, 2016 2:43am Apr 23, 2016 2:43am
Quoting hanover
Surely everybody wants, or at least believes that they want, an income from trading -- although very few actually achieve it
Heres my take on it.

What one purports to want is an incomplete reflection of intention. It reflects only the aspiration (or deception) of the Conscious Mind. The whole person is a result of the interplay between the Conscious Mind (CM) and Subconscious Mind (SCM). Intention is ascertained by looking at the full picture.

An obese person tells others that he really wants to be slim but he keeps gaining weight by constant overeating and inactivity. Sure, he would like to lose weight, but each time he is presented with a choice he chose the unhealthy choice. Making no judgments of his character he is likely getting what he wants even if the final outcome was not anticipated by CM initially.
Quote
-- but are overtaken by irresistible subconscious desires (e.g. ego, greed, laziness, resentment, excitement, peer approval, perfectionism, masochism/self-loathing, fear of failure, fear of loss, illusory superiority, complacency, etc). Along with unrealistic expectations and general ignorance.
Thank you for bringing up this subject.

The statement that one (CM) is "overtaken by irresistiable subconscious desires" avoids personal responsibility while justifying patterns of victimhood and medication.

I hold that SCM's intentions are wholly positive. SCM communicates Protective Warnings (PW) to CM in the form of feelings. Most of our feelings have positive intentions even though people choose to judge and label them. When CM chooses to ignore or suppress PWs, SCM elevates the intensity of feelings to become more noticeable manifesting in Drama.

Elaboration on the internet is boring so here are some examples:
- John's trading account was just decimated last night when he took a really large trade. Today, he rationalizes the experience to fellow forum users by blaming GREED. What if his result was precipitated by CM's unwillingness to experience and acknowledge fear?

- Betty's negative results are unexpected and shocking to her. She blames her over-eagerness to start trading before identifying an actual edge as well as her IGNORANCE and NAIVETE. What if her result is the product of CM's unwillingness to experience the feelings that accompany having your ideas proven wrong and having to start again and again?

The trading system of CM consists of rules for entry, exit and trade sizing but the actual trading system also includes all the feelings that people choose to suppress and avoid.

Everybody gets what they want. For some people, they get what SCM wants, and that is the successful communication of feelings to CM even if it entails dramatic results.
  • #44
  • Apr 23, 2016 11:03am Apr 23, 2016 11:03am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} Heres my take on it........
Thanks for your reply, it's helped to clarify where Mr Seykota is coming from.

There have been plenty of threads like this one, where a trader claims that he "wants" to be profitable, but is being unwittingly sabotaged by emotions like fear or greed. Mr Seykota would apparently argue that, by choosing to succumb to these emotions, he is getting what he "wants", while the trader is stating otherwise. Therein lies the crux, as I see it: to what extent are our choices actually free -- allowing us to get what we optimally "want" for ourselves -- and to what extent can we become enslaved and controlled by base desires that appear, without a seemingly unnatural amount of self-control, to be effectively irresistible.

Then there is the issue of what is conscious and what is subconscious. For me, "conscious" reflects things that I'm aware -- and have some understanding -- of, while "subconscious" reflects deeper, latent, more mysterious, thoughts and desires that are less manageable, partly due to their stealth and subtlety. I'm not altogether convinced that my subconscious thoughts and desires always have my best interests at heart.

I'm not a psychologist, but for better worse, that's how it appears to me.
  • #45
  • Apr 24, 2016 2:30am Apr 24, 2016 2:30am
Quoting hanover
Thanks for your reply, it's helped to clarify where Mr Seykota is coming from.
I don't claim to speak for Mr Seykota or even assume I know his views and my posts should be be construed as such. I am merely a squire in the shadow of a Grand Wizard.

I assume that Ed meant exactly what he said in that interview with Schwager (though the context differs from ours). The best way to find out Ed's views on a subject would be to ask him directly.
Quote
Mr Seykota would apparently argue that, by choosing to succumb to these emotions, he is getting what he "wants", while the trader is stating otherwise.
Actually, I seriously doubt that. Lets keep the discussion to what I would argue.
Quote
I'm not a psychologist, but for better worse, that's how it appears to me.
Great, neither am I. And that is for the better.
Quote
There have been plenty of threads like this one, where a trader claims that he "wants" to be profitable, but is being unwittingly sabotaged by emotions like fear or greed.
CM purports to want to mimic a conception of trading profitability <We observe and respect this intention>.
CM reports the desire to SCM and is rejected in some way or another <We do not observe this and think it to be an aberration>.
Quote
Therein lies the crux, as I see it: to what extent are our choices actually free
In my humble opinion, the Libertarian concept of Free Will does not exist. We are determined in a way by our biology and conditioning. The straightforward implication is that some of us are just not cut out for the game. This isn't a bad thing. Life is about discovering one's niche and aligning oneself with Right Livelihood. For some, it is speculation, for others it is something else.
Quote
-- allowing us to get what we optimally "want" for ourselves --
Humans don't work that way.

What CM wants, ends up getting and in what proportion is determined by a sequence of action, external feedback and internal feedback from SCM.
CM does not merely desire something and expect SCM as well as the rest of the world to fall in line.
Quote
and to what extent can we become enslaved and controlled by base desires that appear, without a seemingly unnatural amount of self-control, to be effectively irresistible. Then there is the issue of what is conscious and what is subconscious.
Perhaps, for the sake of discussion, you could be more specific on what exactly enslaves and control people that needs to be resisted. I personally believe that everything that emanates from SCM is to be experienced and acknowledged to discern the intentions of SCM. Resistance will not only lead to intensification, in some cases, SCM may engineer Drama in its own mysterious way to communicate a feeling. I suspect that when people make "mistakes" of overtrading, revenge trading etc that they cannot explain logically there may be a possibility that these were staged by SCM to communicate a suppressed feeling (usually fear, the feeling traders avoid the most).
Quote
For me, "conscious" reflects things that I'm aware -- and have some understanding -- of, while "subconscious" reflects deeper, latent, more mysterious, thoughts and desires that are less manageable, partly due to their stealth and subtlety.
Yes.
Quote
I'm not altogether convinced that my subconscious thoughts and desires always have my best interests at heart.
I am completely convinced that even the darkest subconscious thoughts are aligned with my interests. Ive been looking, I haven't found any thus far that don't corroborate my interests.
  • #46
  • Apr 24, 2016 12:44pm Apr 24, 2016 12:44pm
Quoting Atokys
I assume that Ed meant exactly what he said in that interview with Schwager (though the context differs from ours). The best way to find out Ed's views on a subject would be to ask him directly.
I have Market Wizards, but it's still packed in a box somewhere from when we moved house back in February. However, I found parts of Ed's interview with Jack Schwager on the internet, including the context of the "everybody gets what they want" quote here:

"A losing trader can do little to transform himself into a winning trader. A losing trader is not going to want to transform himself. That's the kind of thing winning traders do.

Win or lose, everybody gets what they want out of the market. Some people seem to like to lose, so they win by losing money. I know one trader who seems to get in near the start of every substantial bull move and works his $10 thousand up to about a quarter of a million in a couple of months. Then he changes his personality and loses it all back again. This process repeats like clockwork. Once I traded with him, but got out when his personality changed. I doubled my money, while he wiped out as usual. I told him what I was doing, and even paid him a management fee. He just couldn't help himself. I don't think he can do it any differently. He wouldn't want to. He gets a lot of excitement, he gets to be a martyr, he gets sympathy from his friends, and he gets to be the center of attention. Also, possibly, he may be more comfortable relating to people if he is on their financial plane. On some level, I think he is really getting what he wants.

I think that if people look deeply enough into their trading patterns, they find that, on balance, including all their goals, they are really getting what they want, even though they may not understand it or want to admit it."

I've highlighted the parts that are most significant to me. Note the comment "he just couldn't help himself". That's what I mean by a person being driven by inner compulsions over which he has little or no control, and which he "may not understand it or want to admit it". I believe that those inner, hidden desires are operating at a subconscious level, and they are sabotaging him from his outward, conscious desire to be profitable.

At least that's the way I read it. But mine is merely the opinion of a psychological layman.​​
  • #47
  • Apr 25, 2016 7:14am Apr 25, 2016 7:14am
Hi guys,

I think the one thing most traders or upcoming traders don't realise or even forgot is the fact that, the most basic is to actually follow rules. I'm sure most of us heard the term 'ignorance is a bliss'. Yes most of the statements traders make, weather is psychology or management or sound, but it all boils down to actually following. I also believe most people in everyday life, in all walks of it, weather its a job or even relationship, in this case, trading; we make things complicated, we don't necessary need to understand or know how it works, we just know it works, if it works we follow, we follow it and it work. If it dont work, then we don't follow, but if it works for a successful trader by following exactly the way he/she follows then if we do the same, it will work!

For example, we don't know how language works, the process of it, but we know it works, we know that if I say a sentence such as: "understand to want I" and "I want to understand" it's clear the second sentence works, but the first sentence don't work. If i follow the process of language, then it works, but if I don't follow it then it will not work and the person I'm talking to will not understand. It's simple, but too complicated, we make it complicated by involving theories or/and other factors.

We don't need to know "how" we just need to know "it does", the how is valid only if you're a researcher, otherwise if one follows a winning trading strategy, properly follow the system, there is no losing, unless the market takes an uncertainty such as news or any other economical event.
  • #48
  • Apr 25, 2016 8:07am Apr 25, 2016 8:07am
Quote
But mine is merely the opinion of a psychological layman.​​
Thats makes two of us. I don't claim to have a model that represents objective truths about the Mind. The concepts I espouse may very well be useful fictions. I use them because they help me understand what would otherwise seem like irrational behaviour.
Quoting hanover
Ed's interview with Jack Schwager on the internet, including the context... Note the comment "he just couldn't help himself". That's what I mean by a person being driven by inner compulsions over which he has little or no control, and which he "may not understand it or want to admit it". I believe that those inner, hidden desires are operating at a subconscious level, and they are sabotaging him from his outward, conscious desire to be profitable. At least that's the way I read it.
The example of his associate (lets call him Trader X) is perfect to illustrate what Ed plainly states. Trader X is consciously aware of what he wants. The example shows quite clearly that Trader X finds the attention and sympathy more fulfilling than making money. It only appears like sabotage to the outsider if we apply an external standard to judge his intentions; i.e. Making money is Good, Losing money is Bad, therefore Trader X was a victim of sabotage. Ed, however, says that Trader X got what he truly wanted. I concur.

Now, the proposition gets a little difficult when we apply a context that is more familiar to Forex Factory, namely the one that you brought up several posts ago: "Surely everybody wants, or at least believes that they want, an income from trading" for discussion sake lets just generalize it to "profitable trading".
This is where I go into the exposition of the relationship between CM and SCM. I would rather not repeat unless im asked to clarify so allow me to use a more colourful anecdote to illustrate what I mean.

Susie wants to trade profitably. CM does cursory research into markets and feels compelled to start trading immediately so as not to miss opportunities. CM adopts a Guru-tier EA from none other than Forex Factory to meet the requirements of starting ASAP despite serious misgivings. Sensing the possibility of loss, SCM sends a Protective Warning (PW) in the form of fear to CM. Susie, having read many books on trading psychology, has convinced herself that Fear is negative and that all good traders use discipline to control Fear. She ignores SCM's PW. As she trades her system and encounters her first drawdown phase SCM elevates the PWs in the form of greater and greater Fear to communicate its good intentions (the possibility of loss / running a losing system) to CM. Susie's unbearable Fear and internal conflict causes her to quit trading at her equity low point only to miss the rebound to her dismay. CM rationalizes the experience and blames Fear for sabotaging her efforts. SCM is successful in getting what it wanted, the communication of a PW to CM.

Blaming one's feelings for self-sabotage is like blaming your lungs because you have pneumonia. If you look at this system in totality, there is nothing to blame. CM and SCM are only parts of the whole and contribute to attaining the outcome. I ascertain intention (what Susie wants) by looking at the structure (Susie's patterns of thoughts and behaviour) rather than at one part in isolation (what CM vocalizes to others).
  • #49
  • Apr 25, 2016 9:02am Apr 25, 2016 9:02am
Quoting Atokys
The example of his associate (lets call him Trader X) is perfect to illustrate what Ed plainly states. Trader X is consciously aware of what he wants. The example shows quite clearly that Trader X finds the attention and sympathy more fulfilling than making money. It only appears like sabotage to the outsider if we apply an external standard to judge his intentions; i.e. Making money is Good, Losing money is Bad, therefore Trader X was a victim of sabotage. Ed, however, says that Trader X got what he truly wanted. I concur.
Fair enough. I see where you're coming from. I believe that you've thought this through more deeply than I have.

Please excuse me if I tire of this kind of discussion quickly. I apologize, as I was the person who started it.
I used to really enjoy trading forums; but nowadays I feel jaded and prefer to use the reduced energy that I have on the process of trading (and other projects). I've read many of your posts, and you've helped me (and no doubt many others) to see some different angles; I'm grateful for that. Many thanks.
  • #50
  • Apr 25, 2016 9:12am Apr 25, 2016 9:12am
1) What is more important, technical or fundamental in a trading strategy? and why?
technical


2) Do you think behavioral finance (psychology of the trader) affects the strategy he/she is following?
either a trader follow a strategy or he don't.


3) Are indicators necessary for a successful trading strategy?
no



4) How do you know when a forex trading strategy stops working?
i don't believe there is a "strategy" that do work, every trade is unique.
but if you have a strategy that "work", it will work forever.



5) Do fundamentals affect technical and if so why?
foundamentals and technicals are the very same thing, technical is just the historical market-representation of foundamentals.
same, foundamentals is a "real-life" (reforms, events etc.) representation of technicals.
they are the very same thing.



6) Why are indicators criticized?
really? everybody use them.



7) Does discipline plays a big role in a successful trading strategy?
play a certain role, but not a necessary one.



8) Does the success rate rely on the fact that a trading system must give more or less signals in a week? Generally speaking
no



9) What do you think should be or is the key characteristics of a winning trading system?
there is not a "winning trading system"
  • #51
  • Apr 25, 2016 9:46am Apr 25, 2016 9:46am
Hello, I'm trying to answer swissyking here briefly. Just sharing my thoughts.
1. I think technical and fundamental are all very important here. Fundamental will be good as your guidance for long-term view, as technical is best for you to take an action based on your trigger entry.
2. Behavioral finance absolutely affects the strategy. But it doesn't mean that it cannot be trained. By creating an SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for taking a decision in trading will help you trade systematically.
3. Indicators doesn't really necessary for you to become successful in trading strategy. The most important point is to understand the market movement.
4. When the strategy is losing. As simple as that.
5. Fundamentals can be affected by technical. You have to understand that more than 90% professional traders in this world are trading using charts which means technicals.
6. Indicators always late.
7. Yes absolutely.
8. Depends on which TF that are you using and how skillful you are.
9. Trading system MUST BE DYNAMIC. Able to adapt on various markets conditions.
  • #52
  • Apr 25, 2016 10:02am Apr 25, 2016 10:02am
100% for sure, discipline is essential to success.

System designers do need a higher level of understanding the system they are designing than someone who is following it; but for both parties discipline is key to success. As a throw away example, try taking a quality photograph with even the most expensive camera in the world - when you are not allowed to focus the lens.

That said, after acknowledging discipline as essential, there after other factors too. And lets assume there are 10 such factors in the pursuit of success and Forex mastery. The difference between getting 9 out of 10 of these factors correct, and say 5 out of 10 of these factors correct is the SPEED with which you will go broke.

10 out of 10 is not negotiable. And this is why it takes years to master Forex, and not weeks or months. It is why traders need more than just the right trading system.

Just following a system is not enough; there must be a journey of self-discovery so that each person understands which of the (for example) 10 factors for success they need to work on and develop. All the better for the individual if they determine only 1 out of the 10 factors needs work. But working on it is not negotiable just the same.

And a hard ask for those that find they have say 5 out of 10 factors to work on.

Quoting swissyking
Hi guys, I think the one thing most traders or upcoming traders don't realise or even forgot is the fact that, the most basic is to actually follow rules. I'm sure most of us heard the term 'ignorance is a bliss'. Yes most of the statements traders make, weather is psychology or management or sound, but it all boils down to actually following. I also believe most people in everyday life, in all walks of it, weather its a job or even relationship, in this case, trading; we make things complicated, we don't necessary need to understand or know how...
  • #53
  • Apr 25, 2016 10:54am Apr 25, 2016 10:54am
Quoting dancingphil
100% for sure, discipline is essential to success. System designers do need a higher level of understanding the system they are designing than someone who is following it; but for both parties discipline is key to success. As a throw away example, try taking a quality photograph with even the most expensive camera in the world - when you are not allowed to focus the lens. That said, after acknowledging discipline as essential, there after other factors too. And lets assume there are 10 such factors in the pursuit of success and Forex mastery. The...
Hi,
This makes sense. So you would say that mastering 10 things or so about trading which takes years, then you can be fully successful ?
If someone dedicates their time and money in trading and they have gained valuable experience over time therefore it can be fair to say that; it is 100% possible to be fully living off trading? Because there are many critics criticizing forex, butwhat is the actual reason behind them criticizing trading?
  • #54
  • Apr 25, 2016 11:24am Apr 25, 2016 11:24am
I do believe it is entirely true that 50% of people can master Forex to at least a degree that they can live full time on it, and be able to live to at least an upper-middle class lifestyle.

My qualified answer (of only 50% of people) is because I don't spend much or any of my time with people of below average intelligence and imbeciles. I think I have an allergy to fat people and the stupid.

So, assuming at least average intelligence, and assuming the person does do (and does not short cut) the fullness of time for the process of self discovery, it is entirely probable that all of this category can master Forex; at least to the extent of making a serious full time income.

Those you have read who say it is impossible are perhaps not the stupid; but rather, they are the cynical people who will not invest in their own self-discovery. They will not analyze their own personality type so as to be able to compensate for it. They will not study how the brain works and why we decide what we decide. They are the losers who eventually get volunteer work on forums and Twitter as trolls, and paid work at KFC as servers.

I've been saying for YEARS that the best students to teach Forex too are probably 10-12 years old.

And this is because kids are most likely to see Forex trading as a computer game, rather than a source of stress. Their brains are totally able to handle the pattern recognition and maths required. They too would need to undertake the self-discovery process; but they would attend to this quickly and without self-consciousness as being "just one of the rules of the game". And they would simply seek to clock (win) the game without attachment to monetary gain.

I stopped at $88,000,000 because I am really not sure if I want to be any richer. Super cars, jets, whores etc don't interest me. Mixing with the Social Elite would bore me to tears, and their women are f-ugly. Besides some gold put into a 10 year holding pattern, what do I do with what I already have? In fact I leveled off at 500 lots for a couple of years before stopping trading nearly 3 years ago.

Many people will also make similar decisions, and probably much more modest decisions too. Anything more than $10,000,000 is redundant for a family man who wants to care for 3 generations of his family.

As for the critics; it is their own Cognitive Dissonance, as discussed in this example on Wikipedia.

"The Fox and the Grapes"

In the story, a fox sees some high-hanging grapes and wishes to eat them. When the fox is unable to think of a way to reach them, he decides that the grapes are probably not worth eating, with the justification the grapes probably are not ripe or that they are sour (hence the common phrase "sour grapes"). The moral that accompanies the story is "Any fool can despise what he cannot get". This example follows a pattern: one desires something, finds it unattainable, and reduces one's dissonance by criticizing it.

And then they become trolls.

Quoting swissyking
{quote} Hi, This makes sense. So you would say that mastering 10 things or so about trading which takes years, then you can be fully successful ? If someone dedicates their time and money in trading and they have gained valuable experience over time therefore it can be fair to say that; it is 100% possible to be fully living off trading? Because there are many critics criticizing forex, butwhat is the actual reason behind them criticizing trading?
  • #55
  • Apr 25, 2016 2:50pm Apr 25, 2016 2:50pm
Quoting dancingphil
I do believe it is entirely true that 50% of people can master Forex to at least a degree that they can live full time on it, and be able to live to at least an upper-middle class lifestyle. My qualified answer (of only 50% of people) is because I don't spend much or any of my time with people of below average intelligence and imbeciles. I think I have an allergy to fat people and the stupid. So, assuming at least average intelligence, and assuming the person does do (and does not short cut) the fullness of time for the process of self discovery,...
Hi,
This can be seen as a new discovery to some new traders or medium level traders, but what i was able to gather from what you have stated above it that, most of the successful traders understand the psychology of themselves ? therefore it can be fair to say that that you went through the process of finding the right mind state?
As Mark Douglas (rip) puts it: "The consistency you seek is in your mind, not in the markets"
  • #56
  • Edited 10:41pm Apr 25, 2016 4:56pm | Edited 10:41pm
Quoting Atokys
{quote} Heres my take on it. What one purports to want is an incomplete reflection of intention. It reflects only the aspiration (or deception) of the Conscious Mind. The whole person is a result of the interplay between the Conscious Mind (CM) and Subconscious Mind (SCM). Intention is ascertained by looking at the full picture. An obese person tells others that he really wants to be slim but he keeps gaining weight by constant overeating and inactivity. Sure, he would like to lose weight, but each time he is presented with a choice he chose the...
See A....FF is worth it after all. What a great post (including the follow-ups) and thanks for sharing.

What this rams home to me is that the only way to detach yourself from the conflict that may exist between the CM and the SCM is to simply focus on the process of trading...... ergo by trading in a systematic fashion. Choose a system that empirically displays an edge (not a subjective edge) and simply trade the process. That way you avoid the associated maelstrom of the mind and the inevitable biases and traps that can only be soundly evaluated through intensive and detached critical thinking.
  • #57
  • Apr 25, 2016 5:17pm Apr 25, 2016 5:17pm
Quoting swissyking
Hi guys, Im a university student in my final year doing my dissertation, it is a research project, ..............
  • #58
  • Apr 25, 2016 10:45pm Apr 25, 2016 10:45pm
I absolutely DO mean that we must each know ourselves very well.

It seems totally foolish to me that all people as a matter of course don't undertake this self-examination irrespective of their career choice. Such an "audit of self" must include doing your IQ test, as well as testing your personality type. When someone is self-aware in terms of IQ and EQ, we are each then much better able to plan our future.

It then becomes an issue of knowing how to cause yourself to "get into the zone" to trade, tuning yourself in to the market and knowing when you are tuned in.

For me, as an example, that means endurance levels of walking with an MP3 player and listening to "brain food"; my preference being listening to biographies of the business leaders from the 1850's to 1930's in the robber baron era of the USA and some other more recent subjects about the state of the world economy. Others will tune into music as their way to become market ready.

Yet other people may use meditation; but I find that aerobic exercise gently pulls down excessive energy in the body for it to become in sync with the mind so as to be most inspired and ready to trade with a heightened sense of timing.

Quoting swissyking
{quote} Hi, This can be seen as a new discovery to some new traders or medium level traders, but what i was able to gather from what you have stated above it that, most of the successful traders understand the psychology of themselves ? therefore it can be fair to say that that you went through the process of finding the right mind state? As Mark Douglas (rip) puts it: "The consistency you seek is in your mind, not in the markets"
  • #59
  • Edited 11:30pm Apr 25, 2016 11:17pm | Edited 11:30pm
Quoting dancingphil
I absolutely DO mean that we must each know ourselves very well. It seems totally foolish to me that all people as a matter of course don't undertake this self-examination irrespective of their career choice. Such an "audit of self" must include doing your IQ test, as well as testing your personality type. When someone is self-aware in terms of IQ and EQ, we are each then much better able to plan our future. It then becomes an issue of knowing how to cause yourself to "get into the zone" to trade, tuning yourself in to the market and knowing when...
Great point..... but to be able to self-analyse is an accomplishment in itself which few can probably achieve. We always slip into the trap that what our brains tell us is the objective truth without realising that the brain is simply assessing everything from the context of what has been experienced before.....and hence is subjective. Critical thinking requires stepping outside your thoughts and closely examining why you are having those thoughts in a non-judgmental manner. Meditation achieves this as well. Having the ability to critically assess oneself is no doubt a very important ability of the trader and would certainly give you an edge in the world of discretionary trading.

Thanks for the heads up Phil. I must admit listening to podcasts about professional traders is my brain food to get me in the zone as I find that practices handed down from the pro's just then become second nature. In reality this is just about the art of learning by expanding the inputs in the brain from which suitable behaviors are then just naturally manifested through mere repetition. It is a just a simple way to ensure my thoughts are at least coherent in the practice of trading. :-)
  • #60
  • Apr 26, 2016 6:19am Apr 26, 2016 6:19am
You've also made a number of excellent points Copernicus!

It was maybe 35-40 years ago that I came to conclude the human world is mostly insane. That rather than seeing the world thru (my) almost totally-logical eyes, that most people are 85% emotional, and only 15% logical. I came to this conclusion based on the massive belief in Gods in the world, and the fights these masses have arguing their God is better than the other person's God, etc. If there really was a God, he'd be seriously pissed at the infighting between the different religious FRANCHISES.

So it was in my late teens (and I am 56 now) when I concluded that most in the human world are insane, not rational and not to be listened to or trusted.

IQ testing is easy enough to do for ourselves online, and the first thing that a person with a high IQ usually does is conclude it is a stupid way to measure/test the brain. IQ testing only measures spatial, pattern recognition and logic based processes. But we live in a human world where emotions are the greatest factor for success, and indeed survival.

EQ testing online is readily available too, and I have tested myself every 18 months since 1996 to KNOW I am ENTJ of the 16 personality types out there. And so this made it easier for me to self-assess, and to originate my own views and to not be beholding to others for what is true or important. Knowing this is why I never thought to study other trading gurus and why I only ever sought to develop my own trading system to seize the Forex market by storm.

You are right that we all find it hard to step outside of ourselves and to see ourselves objectively, but IQ and EQ measures do assist us to begin the journey. Yet almost NO ONE begins this journey at all; and this fact is what holds back so many would-be traders from their potential.

And the self-knowing has benefits that extend far further than just our Forex trading prowess.


Quoting Copernicus
{quote} Great point..... but to be able to self-analyse is an accomplishment in itself which few can probably achieve. We always slip into the trap that what our brains tell us is the objective truth without realising that the brain is simply assessing everything from the context of what has been experienced before.....and hence is subjective. Critical thinking requires stepping outside your thoughts and closely examining why you are having those thoughts in a non-judgmental manner. Meditation achieves this as well. Having the ability to critically...
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