Is Forex trading worth it? If so, why? | Page 9 | Forex Factory

Options

Go to
Permalinks
Print Thread

Similar Threads

Why do indicators not work/work? Why is Forex not truly random? 129 replies

Is the Bloomberg terminal worth it for forex trading? 22 replies

CMT: Is it worth it for a Forex trader 2 replies

FOREX course - worth to invest $ ? 3 replies

Attachments: Is Forex trading worth it? If so, why?
Exit Attachments

Is Forex trading worth it? If so, why?

  • #161
  • Dec 7, 2015 7:53am Dec 7, 2015 7:53am
Quoting JoeNY
Ok, so the OP Cubbybgood has changed the discussion to ..... {quote} .... which is unfortunate because now it's basically a why do traders fail thread which is a bore-fest . Sorry but there is only one answer and it's a simple one. There are broker stats to prove it. A staggering percentage of traders fail because they don't take their profits. They are in the money, leave it and then go in the negative. No exit plan, no money anytime soon. C'mon,.... everyone say it with me.....,"GREED"

I don't think it's as simple as greed being the blanket response as to why most people don't profit from FX.
There are plenty of stats to say that only 10% of new business startups exist in 12 months.
And again, 10% of those that do exist, fail after 5 years.
Are all of these greedy?
Or, is the fact that these stats: New business failures and FX failures are so closely linked more to do with fundamental behaviors associated with starting any new endeavor?
You read a few generic reasons for new business failures and you could nearly copy paste them into any thread here on FF.
Unrealistic expectations
Incomplete knowledge of the market
Overconfidence
Lack of risk management
Lack of a clear plan.

This has to sound familiar to us right!?

Most people stumble into the FX market via some misleading sales pitch, with $1000 scraped together from savings, or tax refunds...get out the Excel spreadsheet that shows compounded gains at ridiculous growth rates and start planning which month next year they'll quit the day job and buy the Ferrari. This industry has a vested interest in perpetuating that myth.

By the time most realize how far from the truth this all is, they likely ditch the idea and move on to herbalife or some other bullshit get rich quick scheme.
You can blanket label it as greed, but it's more akin to fantasy on the part of the person who thinks that they have stumbled upon the brilliant idea no one else knows about and will show everyone in a few years how clever they are.

I think this game has more to do with ego than pure greed.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #162
  • Dec 7, 2015 7:56am Dec 7, 2015 7:56am
Quoting scottik187
1. Be interested macro economics and fundamental analysis.
Fundamentals that you read about are typically useless as the market has already discounted the price, and I call them "funny-mentals".
Quoting lugoffohio
Another reason traders fail is: they all use same set of indicators. MA,Stochs,FIbs,RSI, etc. EVen if u use a 1 EMA to find direction, it still has a lag time, coz' it can't do nothing on its own until price moves.
This is simply a misunderstanding of what indicators do. Most of them were created to lag behind and they are best used when they are given a very high lag.

Price direction becomes more apparent the further you zoom out from a chart.
Quoting JoeNY
Sorry but there is only one answer and it's a simple one. There are broker stats to prove it. A staggering percentage of traders fail because they don't take their profits. They are in the money, leave it and then go in the negative. No exit plan, no money anytime soon.
This is incorrect.

The reason is quite the opposite: taking profits too soon and also letting losses run out of control.

You can easily tell by looking at the net positions of retail traders. Many are long in a down trend and short in an up trend. Quite strange really.
  • #163
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:04am Dec 7, 2015 8:04am
Using the markets to hedge / manage your risk against real world challenges in a real brick and mortar business/corporation is considered doing business.
What almost all of us are doing here is speculation. I'm sorry but it's not a business no matter what I hear around here. So it doesn't apply to the comparison made below. Sorry, two totally different animals.

Quoting trader34
{quote} I don't think it's as simple as greed being the blanket response as to why most people don't profit from FX. There are plenty of stats to say that only 10% of new business startups exist in 12 months. And again, 10% of those that do exist, fail after 5 years. Are all of these greedy?
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #164
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:10am Dec 7, 2015 8:10am
The only one of your list that I believe is crucial is number 4. The rest are all fine if you want to be an academic, but I can tell you right now,in the pits we spent our time following price and little else.

Quoting scottik187
The "why" trade forex is a complicated one, I believe that many people do it for hope of a better life, if nothing else. Some trade to alleviate boredom, others are gamblers and enjoy the rush. The amount of money that's theoretically available is only limited by your imagination, and that's a big part of the problem. What makes a successful forex trader then? Here's some attributes that I believe make a successful trader (in no particular order): 1. Be interested macro economics and fundamental analysis. If you're genuinely not interested in why...
  • #165
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:15am Dec 7, 2015 8:15am
Quoting JoeNY
Using the markets to hedge / manage your risk against real world challenges in a real brick and mortar business/corporation is considered doing business. What almost all of us are doing here is speculation. I'm sorry but it's not a business no matter what I hear around here. So it doesn't apply to the comparison made below. Sorry, two totally different animals. {quote}

Respectfully disagree, because starting a business usually involves a loan. Leverage.
Then comes the speculation that you have something to offer that the market actually wants.

Everything in life outside of a day job involves speculation and risk.
Yes, a traditional business, selling furniture or something, may seem like it has a more solid footing...but still, once it fails, all you have is debts, and diminished value on your assets.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #166
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:16am Dec 7, 2015 8:16am
Quoting JoeNY
Ok, so the OP Cubbybgood has changed the discussion to ..... {quote} .... which is unfortunate because now it's basically a why do traders fail thread which is a bore-fest . Sorry but there is only one answer and it's a simple one. There are broker stats to prove it. A staggering percentage of traders fail because they don't take their profits. They are in the money, leave it and then go in the negative. No exit plan, no money anytime soon. C'mon,.... everyone say it with me.....,"GREED"
I just realized something at this very moment. It's actually a tie between failure to take profits and...... the Blind leading the Blind.
SPC * Swollen PocketZ Crew!
  • #167
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:20am Dec 7, 2015 8:20am
Quoting JoeNY
{quote} I just realized something at this very moment. It's actually a tie between failure to take profits and...... the Blind leading the Blind.

Agree with the last part.
yet to see anyone here, or elsewhere actually offering any real education to new traders.
Just sales pitches and false hope.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #168
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:31am Dec 7, 2015 8:31am
Quoting trader34
yet to see anyone here, or elsewhere actually offering any real education to new traders.
Speculation is a fine art. It involves developing a set of beliefs and a philosophy about markets. I don't think such a thing can be readily transferred.
  • #169
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:46am Dec 7, 2015 8:46am
Quoting Atokys
{quote} Speculation is a fine art. It involves developing a set of beliefs and a philosophy about markets. I don't think such a thing can be readily transferred.

Maybe not easily, but there are examples of speculative contrarians in so called "brick and mortar" businesses.

Steve Jobs being a prime example.
Uninterested in market research...thought he could speculate as to what the customer would want better than they could.
Decided design and form over function would be the strongest selling point for his products.
Now, I know Apple don't have the largest market share in say mobile phones for example.
But, you don't see people queuing up overnight to get their hands on the latest Samsung products.
and the success of Apple as a company can't be disputed.

His speculation paid off in his field.
His philosophy was to give people what they didn't even know they wanted. Apple has since revolutionized the music industry (reluctantly), and has likely influenced or instigated a shift in how we interact with media for the foreseeable future. A pretty good gamble...he should have been a trader!

Back to FX, I agree speculation is an art, but everything is relative.
Some speculate where the price will be in 5 minutes, others in 5 weeks...

I think all that separates profitable traders from unprofitable ones is parameters.
FX is a paradox in that there are only 2 options...buy or sell.
But there are limitless possibilities how to manage those 2 options, which means some other angle must be determined for each trader to be profitable.
It's one of the few areas where you could have multiple people taking different views and all being right...eventually... depending on their parameters.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #170
  • Dec 7, 2015 8:55am Dec 7, 2015 8:55am
Quoting trader34
FX is a paradox in that there are only 2 options...buy or sell. But there are limitless possibilities how to manage those 2 options, which means some other angle must be determined for each trader to be profitable. It's one of the few areas where you could have multiple people taking different views and all being right...eventually... depending on their parameters.
You could have multiple different traders with completely different views on the markets and they all could be successful in the long run.

There are so many ways to go about the simple task of buying and selling it seems that what is more important is the emotional acceptance of the outcomes of one's actions.
  • #171
  • Dec 7, 2015 9:47am Dec 7, 2015 9:47am
Quoting trader34
{quote} Agree with the last part. yet to see anyone here, or elsewhere actually offering any real education to new traders. Just sales pitches and false hope.
Why would anyone in their right mind ever do that ? Another no brainer, no ?
  • #172
  • Dec 7, 2015 9:55am Dec 7, 2015 9:55am
Quoting trader34
{quote} Agree with the last part. yet to see anyone here, or elsewhere actually offering any real education to new traders. Just sales pitches and false hope.
Guess you'll just have to get off your butt then and do your own research since no one is going to hand you the results of their own hard work, what ho !
every Saint has a past. Every Sinner has a Future
  • #173
  • Dec 7, 2015 9:57am Dec 7, 2015 9:57am
Quoting skyway
{quote} Why would anyone in their right mind ever do that ?

I didn't imply that anyone should, I merely pointed out the fact.
Plenty of people here on these forums seem to think they have the right, and ability to teach others, without any credentials.
I believe this contributes hugely to the statistics.
But, they're just telling people what they want to hear.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #174
  • Dec 7, 2015 10:01am Dec 7, 2015 10:01am
Quoting turnip15
{quote} Guess you'll just have to get off your butt then and do your own research since no one is going to hand you the results of their own hard work, what ho !

Absolutely!
For the most part anyway, even if you do try to teach people, it would fall on deaf ears.
Wealth comes from what you keep, not what you earn
  • #175
  • Dec 7, 2015 10:14am Dec 7, 2015 10:14am
Quoting trader34
{quote} I didn't imply that anyone should, I merely pointed out the fact. Plenty of people here on these forums seem to think they have the right, and ability to teach others, without any credentials. I believe this contributes hugely to the statistics. But, they're just telling people what they want to hear.
first of all, trading can not be taught.
second, nobody knows anything. knowledge is just a set of data which is proven to be correct most of the time but not all the time. knowing is an eternal process for search of truth and not the final outcome.
nothing that you "know" is absolutely correct.
after all this, if there are still people who thinks they "know" something and can teach it, they have delusional disorder.
As Above, So Below
  • #176
  • Dec 7, 2015 11:28am Dec 7, 2015 11:28am
If I ever have a moment during my day when I feel like "the stars have aligned" and I "suddenly understand it all" - I turn off the computer because if I don't, I'm going to do something stupid -
  • #177
  • Dec 7, 2015 12:33pm Dec 7, 2015 12:33pm
Quoting Cubbybgood
Why do I trade? Is it to be rich? Do I trade as a hobby? Do I love it? do I hate it? These questions I've asked myself now for over 11 years. Forex trading has been an expensive venture for me. Back in my first 2 years of trading I lost $30k. I almost went bankrupt because I was naive and greedy. I now have been profitable for over 15 months. Is forex trading harmful? I've seen a countless amount of people lose everything and more trading. Why do we put ourselves threw all of this just for a chance at the profitable 5% club? What are your dreams...
same with you just one sentence I LOVE IT
to reach the understanding about something need confusing, to reach the light need passing the dark cloud.
great and happy to hear for you.
what make 99% failed is because "doing the same thing and expecting a different results". and from your statement you breakthrough that "doing the same thing". haleluya, ohm salam
we don't predict, we only ride
  • #178
  • Dec 7, 2015 1:39pm Dec 7, 2015 1:39pm
Nine pages of verbal diarrhoea....keep it flowing guys.
  • #179
  • Dec 7, 2015 2:30pm Dec 7, 2015 2:30pm
Quoting Zuke
The only one of your list that I believe is crucial is number 4. The rest are all fine if you want to be an academic, but I can tell you right now,in the pits we spent our time following price and little else. {quote}
The problem with applying that logic to retail forex, and the "average" person starting out, is that it's a totally different experience to you and the pitt.

Pitt trading already builds in a lot of the aspects I discussed, you probably have mentors (explicit or otherwise) that you learn off, you know the market structure, you know what moves the market and can spot it happening. For a retail trader sitting behind a computer somewhere it's a different story.
  • #180
  • Dec 7, 2015 2:39pm Dec 7, 2015 2:39pm
Quoting Atokys
{quote} Fundamentals that you read about are typically useless as the market has already discounted the price, and I call them "funny-mentals".
I'm not saying trade the fundamentals, I'm saying learn what they mean and their implications. It's about having an understanding of the market as a whole.

Lets use a race car driver as an example. They're very good at driving, and can control the car. They usually have a strong mechanical knowledge as well, but they're not mechanics. They understand what's "under the hood" and can explain to their mechanics what's wrong with the car so they can apply their expertise to improve it. Same as a trader, they're trading (driving) but should have an understanding of what's moving the price (the mechanics of price).
1 trader viewing now