iExpertAdvisor: A Nightmare Experience

#property copyright "iDouble"
#property link "mailto: [email protected]"

extern bool I_AM_TICKED_OFF = true
extern bool I_CANNOT_BELIEVE_THIS = true
extern bool SHOW_FRUSTRATION = true
extern color I_AM_TICKED_OFF = RedHotRed
extern color I_CANNOT_BELIEVE_THIS = RedHotRed
extern color SHOW_FRUSTRATION = RedHotSmoke

Soapbox == SoapBox(Heated, Frustrated, Angered, TimeWasted, Off)

int init(0)

{

I need to vent.

I can't believe some people. I mean, you take the time, energy and effort to build a fairly sensible product for traders and then you toss your middle finger up in the air, when it comes to Technical Support and Bug Fixes. Arrrrg!

I mean, what's the point in developing the next best thing to pure gold, if it does not work as advertised! I purchased iExpertAdvisor's Visual Traders Studio and was floored by all the "potential" I saw right out of the box. But, that's just about as far as I got, to the edge of the darn BOX and no further.

iExpertAdvisor's VTS, is suppose to allow the non-programming trader to build their custom EA using a Visual/Graphic drag-and-drop interface. Each component ("Element") you drag out onto what they call a Drawing Pad, is supposed to be configurable and customizable depending on the type of Element it happens to be. The concept is brilliant, but the execution of the concept is woefully inadequate from an End-Users standpoint and from an overall design consistency standard.

Most hand-written EAs have variables and functions that get wrapped with some kind of trade execution logic. VTS has those same components in graphical forum called, Variable Elements, Logic Elements, Function Elements and End Elements. And, it all makes perfect sense, as long as you don't stray away from their pre-built templates called QsSystems, or Quick Start Systems.

These QsSystems are what you get exposed to first, when you download the *free* demo version of the product. What a joke! The whole idea behind Visual Traders Studio, is that non-programmers are supposed to be able to develop complex trading systems using the Visual drag-and-drop GUI. And, you are given these "Quick Start System" templates to prove that to yourself, when you are evaluating the free demo version of the product.

What they never tell you, is that once you step off the reservation after buying the "Professional" version (which is nothing more than the same demo version with the entire Toolbox unlocked, so you can get at all the function) and start building your custom EAs from the ground-up, that the so-called "Quick Start Systems" become little to absolutely no use to you as a systems designer.

It is not that you can't build your own QsSystem. That's not the problem. The problem is that they do NOT bother to document HOW the components necessary to build your own system are supposed to be used together! So, you end up taking DAYS and WEEKS trying to "learn" how their software is supposed to work - as opposed to simply opening up a darn Users Manual that's worth more than the paper used to contain the useless ink, outlining the equally useless drivel they call "Supporting Documentation."

There is no logical nexus for how you get from Blank Drawing Pad, to your own custom design, using any of the Elements that are supposed to make building your EA "easy."

After tons of trial and error - and I'm talking about two weeks worth of work - I finally got a simple Cross-Over strategy to compile! But, that was just the start of the nightmare, because when I attempting to run the EA inside the Metatrader Tester, it never opened a single trade when the trade logic called for it. When I checked the Journal, I found that the EA was attempting to open an indicator that did not exist!

So, I go back to Visual Traders Studio and compile the EA one more time. I then looked at the MQL file and found that Visual Traders Studio, had taken the liberty of renaming the indicator that was used in the trade logic. So, without that indicator being opened by the EA, there was no trade logic being generated. I proved this to myself, by changing the indicator's name back to what it should have been in the MQL, and then re-compiled the EA in Meta Editor. Sure enough, the EA ran and began opening trades.

Was the nightmare over? Of course, not. Why? Because, not only did the EA open trades, but it opened a torrent of continuous trades until the entire account got margin called! Some 200+ trades were opened in the exact same direction, without any of them ever being closed - which is absolutely contrary to the trade logic contained in the VTS design.

It was a simplistic cross-over strategy that used two bars ([0] and [1]) to set the direction and it was supposed to have been using what VTS called the Trade Manager to control the Maximum Number of same signal trades being opened at one time. The Open Trade Manager was set to MaxTrades = 1 and MaxBuys = 1. So, under no circumstances, should a blizzard of BuyOrders ever have been launched by the EA.

Well, I documented my sorrows, pain and suffering on the iExpertAdvisor's technical support forum, which is tantamount to tossing your support question into galactic black hole. They NEVER answered my question about why Visual Traders Studio was renaming the indicator used in the EA. In fact, they waited DAYS before even replying to the question! When they did, they told me to post some evidence that the file was being renamed!

I referred them to the litany of previous posts that I had made, showing them precisely where the indicator name was being overwritten by their platform during EA compile time. They NEVER responded - they just flat out ignored it, and then came back to the forum two days later, with the statement that their software was not for everybody, and then they arbitrarily told me that they were issuing a refund.

So, apparently, whenever you run into a bug that iExpertAdvisor can't fix, refusing to admit, and completely ignores, you get told that their software is "not for everyone" and that the company will be issuing you a refund. I've never heard of such nonsense coming from a software company and/or vendor before, in all my life.

And, this was JUST the tip of the iceberg that I continually had with Visual Traders Studio. There were too many functions within the platform that either did not work at all, or that were not documented. So, you spent hours and days trying to figure out whether or not you were causing the problem with poor design, only to find out later that the function did not work (flat out), or had a bug that caused it. All because the stuff was not properly documented, or not documented at all! Hidden functionality, is NO functionality at all.

The concept behind Visual Traders Studio is amazing. The idea is genius. However, the execution and delivery of iExperAdvisor's Visual Traders Studio in its present form is absolutely horrid! Technical Support is in name ONLY - it simply does not exist to anywhere near the degree that it should.

Having to wait days, or sometimes more than one week for a reply to a technical question, wastes an enormous amount of the traders time. If you have EA designs that are sitting on the shelf, because iExpertAdvisor has stuck its finger in the air at you, while making you wait for DAYS, or a WEEK for a response - and only then, offering a lame duck, void, empty, shallow level of support in return, you will never end up using the product in production trading, because you will always be placed on eternal hold, when you have a need for tech support.

I switched to another Visual EA builder. Their product performs exactly as advertised and I get a response from technical support on their forum either the same day, or the very next day at the most. I never have to wait days and weeks, for a technical support question to be answered and I always get a reply that is relevant to my question. The product might not have the same "depth" of functionality that Visual Traders Studio purports to have, but what good is technical depth, if it is either bug ridden, invisible to the End-User, or absolutely undocumented!

This is not a commercial for the "other" Visual EA builder that actually works, so they will remain unnamed by me personally inside this particular thread. But, I did want to take this opportunity to finally vent my frustrations about a product and a company that promises WAY more than it actually delivers to the Forex Trader.


return(0);

}

I've never understood why someone would purchase an EA for such a dynamic market when their money is on the line. Doesn't surprise me that there are troubles with them.

I'm not sure what EA is being referred to?

Visual Traders Studio, by iExpertAdvisor, is a Visual EA builder - not an EA in and of itself.

Anyway, buyer be(very)ware is the lesson learned with that product.

It has become fairly obvious you have no patience for programming.

Have you stopped to think for a minute, maybe its not the tools that are the problem.

MQL is a piece of piss to learn... I can't imagine there being any learning curve even for someone who hasn't tried writing in any language.

And if that's the case, learning as you go along with your project is the way to go. In the 2 weeks you spent with those tools you could have grasped the basic concepts that are part of the really basic/vanilla paradigm implemented in mql.

Its definitely the tool and my patience for actually learning how to trade, overrode my desire to learn how to code, as knowing how to develop trade logic that actually works, trumps knowing how to code by about a billion times a billion.

Its definitely the tools, tools, tools.

The problem is that my trading system is not straight out of "How To Trade Like a Rookie 101" course. So, I would need code writing skills that can keep up with my trade logic writing skills, as the two are no where near being equal.

Writing solid trade logic, as got to be 10 times more difficult. Its the trade logic that makes the difference, not the code that executes the trade logic.

Most non-trade logic types don't yet understand this.

[quote=iDouble;5555378]#property copyright "iDouble"
#property link "mailto: [email protected]"

extern bool I_AM_TICKED_OFF = true
extern bool I_CANNOT_BELIEVE_THIS = true
extern bool SHOW_FRUSTRATION = true
extern color I_AM_TICKED_OFF = RedHotRed
extern color I_CANNOT_BELIEVE_THIS = RedHotRed
extern color SHOW_FRUSTRATION = RedHotSmoke

Soapbox == SoapBox(Heated, Frustrated, Angered, TimeWasted, Off)

********************************************

I sympathize with your complaints about VTS. It really looks good in the demo videos. I almost bought the program and I am glad I didn't now.

I want to learn to make my own trading EA's and I want to find something that will enable me to make them without a huge learning curve. If there is something out there that will make it easier for me to make EA's that's what I want. What product did you end up buying that you are happy with?

[quote=whoisthere48;5723018] I switched to Molanis, but I've also taken a look at EATree and FXDreema. I like them both, but I've spent most of my allowable time between VTS and Molanis.

I've got about five (5) functioning EAs going with Molanis right now - all going through their various optimization stages. I also have three (3) more at different stages of development. After getting up to speed with the tool, it was really easy to do. However, if you need to build complex EAs, then you are going to have to get into "some" MQL - there's just no way around it. These Visual EA builders won't carry you all the way there. But, its been fun and very frustrating at the same time, getting up to speed on the MQL basics.

I agree with you idouble. I think they have done a runner because they havent replied to any forum questions now for the past 6 days.
Great product and great marketing but lousy assistance which is a great pity.
I think they just cant handle all the enquiries. I would love them to succeed in developing it properly, maybe they need assistance?

I just put together an ea that contains 16 systems with EAtree MT5.

I want some improvements... but I make a nice living using their materials.

Hi, this David Williams from iExpertAdvisor. I created the EA Builder Visual Traders Studio.
As you can see from the date of this reply, I don't follow forums much, but since I saw this post, I felt I should reply.

I wish I could have worked closer with iDouble before he/she became so frustrated. I've made many improvements to the builder over the years.

I'm trying very hard not to promote anything as I'm sure the admin of the forum would not approve. I just want to defend my company be saying that we offer a full guarantee, no questions asked. I hope that iDouble requested a refund.

[quote=iDouble;5750156] Hi idouble, Thanks for the heads up. I was looking at the VTS demo and naturally came here to find out what the experience is like. I would love to be able to turn my ideas into ea's for testing but they dont rely on indicators. Sounds like I would be wasting my time with these kinds of software

Hi M.A.C.Doug, this David from iExpertAdvisor.

If you are not using indicators, you are probably using price values? In MQL they are available as Keywords: Ask, Bid, Open[0], Close[0], High[0], Low[0]. The brackets indicate what bar (or candle) you get the price value for - where 0 is the currently forming bar, 1 is the bar to the left, and so. A little confusing, but once you understand, it's amazing what logic you can define with just those values (for example, pretty much any candle stick pattern).

If you still have your VTS demo, you can drag these price values from the toolbox - and then you can view the MQL that's generated - this really helps if you are trying to learn MQL. To view the MQL for any element, click the (i) button. Also you can view the generated MQL in the MetaEditor. I definitely recommend learning MQL if you are at all interested.

Hi David, Thank you for explaining how price values can be used to possibly program a price only based strategy. I purchased an MQL course from Steve Fleming a couple of years ago but after scanning through the ten lesson course it was clear I was not going to be able to program anything close to what I need. I recently started looking at visual based software but as soon as they start talking about programming a moving average crossover and all the indicators available to generate signals I just move on. I just have to be sure I can make it work before I waste more time and money. I havent downloaded the demo as yet cause Im using Mac iOS which is not ideal for mt4 at the best of times. I was thinking that the editor may also work better on pc. Any more thoughts or advice you have would be much appreciated to feel free to share anything at all you think may be of value

I think the MetaEditor, and actually all parts of the MetaTrader platform, will work better on Windows than iOS. I know MT supports mac, but it seems like MT was developed on Windows and with Windows in mind.
I think it's wise to consider the time spent - it's not just money that can be wasted. If programming is not for you, I think you should evaluate a handful of the visual builders and see if they "click". Although I've tried to make VTS intuitive, I've also tried to make it powerful. The two don't always mix (power::ease of use) but, hey, that's my challenge, and I enjoy working on moving that line.
So try a few EA builders out and see if they make sense. I think you'll know within a day or so if you can work with one of them.

Hey man, I want to help you but I don't know how to do it, because:
- it seems you don't have a software developer background.
- as you see something which you hate enough and is not related to your target you give away.

Sadly I am in the same shoes:
I know if I would know German language I would have better opportunities.
Purchased some lessons , I was in free/ payed teaching hours, but as they start to teach and request from the to learn weather or 52 words with relatives, while on the programming only the following is used: parent, child, sibling I just give up, because that is a "General" course. It is like in the university: 90% useless material and 10% usefully.

I think the Cross EMA is a basic tool to lean it. The teacher or the material writer doesn't know your ideas, be just try to make a material, which can be widely used and maybe has sales. Your idea is specific.

So here I would suggest:
- or you take willingness to learn MQL4 and have access to API and do whatever you like and test all "trade systems" here with an EA in days... It is for me exactly leaning the German language...
- or you pay someone / find someone who work for free and you can trust him and accept his quality of work... every time...when you want to modify something.

Learning MQL4 for a none programmer... it depends. My wife hates programming, probably for she takes at least 2 years. I am still try sometimes to learn German from 5 years ago, but very soon I realize if I not move there I will never learn and I still can live without it... I think it's the same for you.

Requesting a coder job:
- one is the "business secret is shared" issue.
- second is: the programmer do a job, probably is good. After using 1 month you see it has a bug, or you want to fix something. Maybe you are able to contact the same programmer and maybe he will not work overpriced then you are lucky, since you don't need to share again the secret, recruit again. But since in forex not every time is a win, maybe not every time you have luck.

For me I think it was 1-2 month to be familiar enough or such, but I have the basics: I know what is a variable, constant, function, enum, class and all basics. Just the MQL4 specifics needed to learn.

Playing with visual tools... "omg"...
Those tools are made to be sold...
Those tools has a set of the features, which has implemented, as soon you want anything from "out of box" you just throw away you money on fence.
Those tool has bugs... I am so unlucky even in MT4 I found and everywhere I touch I found ( I should rethink my carrier path and maybe be a software tester instead of programmer )

So I really don't know how to help you, but maybe giving out this info it will make you to make better decisions.

If you don't want to learn MQL or use an EA Builder, then you don't have much of a choice but to find a programmer.

There are a couple of problems with using a programmer.

The first problem is communication. Even among people that speak the same native language (rare on the internet) it can be difficult for a trader to describe exactly what they want - regardless of how long the specification is or how many words and pictures it contains.

The second problem is "ongoing modifications". In my experience as a contract programmer for over 20 years, I've found that people usually don't know what they want until they see it. This is not a short-coming, or even a bad thing, it's just the way it is.

As a matter of fact, thinking about the 100's of projects I've worked on over the years, I don't recall even once when we did not make tweaks based upon the outcome of the first release. So after seeing this for years, I accept "iteration" as the normal software development process.

There are other problems with using a programmer that others have pointed out, such as cost and "trust ability", but communication and the need for iteration are the ones that seem to be the most challenging.

So if you are determined to trade and don't want to stare at charts all day, what can you do?

One suggestion is to semi-automate your strategy.

For example, create an EA to send an email or generate an alert when your first trade signal appears. If the signal is not too complex, for example a new price high, or a simple cross-over, then you should be able to do this pretty easily with an EA builder, or even in MQL.

In this case, you don't have to be bothered with creating (and testing) the logic for opening and closing a trade. You are just raising an alert so you don't have to start at the screen all day.

One good outcome of this technique is that you'll likely be encouraged to add more criteria (read: complexity) to your alert system as you go along. It probably will not be overwhelming because you'll add to it slowly - as it makes sense to you.

Remember, a little bit of MQL can go a long way. If you get comfortable with just a few functions and techniques, you may be able to take care of your own programming needs. And that's the best situation to be in, if you ask me.

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post links here, but I created a free MQL course a long time ago. If the moderator needs to remove the link, you can find it by googling "iExpertAdvisor MQL Course".

Here is the link: http://www.iexpertadvisor.com/metatr...-course-index/

Also, I added a plug-in called 'MQL Mentor" to my EA Builder. It allows you to view the MQL code for anything you've dragged and dropped - you are able to view just that code, not the code for the whole EA. (You can also view the code for the whole EA in the editor). This really helps when you are learning because you can see the correct syntax.

Thank you for the advice. ​ I just don't have the time to learn anything atm. I will have a look at the free mql lessons but I haven't even had a chance to open a chart lately let alone learn to code from scratch or learn a software program. I intend to move forward on this eventually so ill keep you posted. Thanks again, I appreciate the responses and I will certainly start with your ea builder davidmw as a stand alone or as an mql learning tool as you suggest

Your welcome MACDoug.

Believe me, I understand about not having time. Please keep me posted when you do start.

One thing that may help, when you start: try doing something simple, but cool.

I helped one trader create a really simple EA that watched a trendline (this trader liked to draw trendlines every Sunday night), and the EA would send a notification to his smartphone if the trendline was broken. Simple, but cool. (Here is a link for setting up SendNotifications in MT if you are interested: http://www.iexpertadvisor.com/mql-mt4-sendnotification/ )

Coolness definitely helps with motivation

You can trial VTS anytime, so don't feel hurried. Also, if you need more time when you start the trial, just let us know.