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IC Markets Slippage Grey Hairs

  • #21
  • Mar 21, 2015 2:38pm Mar 21, 2015 2:38pm
Quoting Forexia
Slippage is nothing new with these brokers like IC Markets or any of those small deposits-huge leverage brokers because they are NOT real ECN brokers. They claim they are STP, DMA, agency-model, ECN or any of those terms but in reality they are still MM brokers in disguise. They stand in between you and the "liquidity providers" and don't really send your orders directly to the "liquidity providers" to be executed. I don't know exactly how they operate but I suspect that when you put in an order, you are actually trading on some sort of internal...
Thanks a lot for the replies.

I have before also used IB, and yes their platform is not to user friendly!

I will keep digging

PC
Less is more...
  • #22
  • Mar 22, 2015 12:20am Mar 22, 2015 12:20am
Quoting pipcruiser
{quote} Thanks a lot for the replies. I have before also used IB, and yes their platform is not to user friendly! I will keep digging PC
Then you are ready to move onto the bigger leagues then LOL

The next level of brokers for you is LMAX, LCG and Baxter-FX then. I haven't traded with any of them because their min. startup balance is way too much for me but Interactive Brokers does have one of the smallest slippages.

Good luck!
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #23
  • Mar 26, 2015 5:07am Mar 26, 2015 5:07am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} Interactive Brokers does have one of the smallest slippages.
Agreed, unfortunately IB also has the worst possible rollover interest charges in the industry so I would only use them in pure scalping / day trading settings.
  • #24
  • Mar 27, 2015 1:37am Mar 27, 2015 1:37am
I have the same problem with them!
Iam scalping like you do.
I set my pending order and have udines EAs managing the trades...

Had a trade couple of minutes ago on EU. Quiet market hours, pending was set at 1.0877 and the order got filled at 1.0876.
When it got triggered on the right price I would have gained a nice and smooth TP, but instead I ended up (lucky) at BE +commission...

I had a chat with the support team, but they actually don't care about the problem!
They are trying to tell me that my EA (which is also running on my account) is setting up these pendings and bla bla bla...

So Iam also checking new brokers.
On my list are JFD Brokers (min deposit $500), ActiveTrades (min deposit $100), Tickmill (min deposit $100) and Sensus Capital Markets (min deposit $1000)
  • #25
  • Mar 27, 2015 2:14am Mar 27, 2015 2:14am
Quoting actalis
{quote} Agreed, unfortunately IB also has the worst possible rollover interest charges in the industry so I would only use them in pure scalping / day trading settings.
Yes they pay $2 for a Long rolled over AUS position LOL, lowest in forex industry I think. For that $2 they might as well keep it. LOL

I am curious though how do you scalp using their TWS? It's horrible and slow and error-prone!! I just mostly swing-traded or traded news when I was with them and even for that I had to be extra careful before I put in a trade.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #26
  • Mar 27, 2015 2:19am Mar 27, 2015 2:19am
Quoting Mr.Ma
I have the same problem with them! Iam scalping like you do. I set my pending order and have udines EAs managing the trades... Had a trade couple of minutes ago on EU. Quiet market hours, pending was set at 1.0877 and the order got filled at 1.0876. When it got triggered on the right price I would have gained a nice and smooth TP, but instead I ended up (lucky) at BE +commission... I had a chat with the support team, but they actually don't care about the problem! They are trying to tell me that my EA (which is also running on my account) is setting...
All those are mostly going to be the same as IC Markets, MM brokers posing as STP/DMA/ECN/Agency-model brokers simply by their low deposit requirement and probably high leverage. Not to discriminate them or anything but there is just simply NO WAY that you can participate in the "market" with just low deposit no matter how high the leverage is. So most likely your trades are going to be executed by those brokers themselves on their internal "ECN", hence the same problems, slippages and etc.

To trade on the "real" ECN with relatively low slippage, you need to put in a bit more money.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #27
  • Mar 28, 2015 9:00am Mar 28, 2015 9:00am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} All those are mostly going to be the same as IC Markets, MM brokers posing as STP/DMA/ECN/Agency-model brokers simply by their low deposit requirement and probably high leverage. Not to discriminate them or anything but there is just simply NO WAY that you can participate in the "market" with just low deposit no matter how high the leverage is. So most likely your trades are going to be executed by those brokers themselves on their internal "ECN", hence the same problems, slippages and etc. To trade on the "real" ECN with relatively low...

I adhere to the same opinion actually. But what you consider the reasonable capital to join interbank? 10K, 20K? or "a bit" more?
I'm now with Tickmill are they from the same mold as IC? Good that they at least has lower comission, but still unsure about them..
  • #28
  • Mar 28, 2015 11:11am Mar 28, 2015 11:11am
Quoting pipcruiser
Hi there, I am getting grey hairs over IC Markets. I mean really grey. I trade standard lots and use pending orders at levels (Udine). I thought IC Markets was suppose to be a straight forward broker and hence I have been with them some time trading an ECN account. What I witness day in and day out is that 90% of the time I get slipped real bad (2-3 pips) and (strange enough) always in the favor of IC Markets, meaning 90% of my trades I either loose more or gain less than I should have. I am not talking about news events, high volatile trading etc....


Hey pipcruiser,
I had in mind that I have a pending order script somewhere on my harddrive which sets up hidden pending orders.
Maybe this is a small solution to the problem we have with ICM...

Iam attaching the script to this post, download it and put it into your script folder.
I will test it next week if it is working better or slippage will be the same.

Have a nice weekend all together
Attached File(s)
File Type: ex4 HiddenPendingOrder.ex4   45 KB | 515 downloads
  • #29
  • Edited 8:01pm Mar 28, 2015 5:36pm | Edited 8:01pm
Quoting available
{quote} I adhere to the same opinion actually. But what you consider the reasonable capital to join interbank? 10K, 20K? or "a bit" more? I'm now with Tickmill are they from the same mold as IC? Good that they at least has lower comission, but still unsure about them..
I will tell you any time when you see a broker is anything the following, it's 99.99999999999% a MM broker but posing as STP/DMA/Agency Model/ECN broker:

Starting balance in the hundreds: $400, $200
Super-high leverage: 400 to 500:1
Offers MT4 even as ECN

So I will let you figure out whether Tickmill is a REAL ECN or a MM posing as ECN

Again I am NOT trying to discriminate against these brokers. Just because it's a MM broker it does NOT mean they are necessarily bad. There are plenty of MM brokers that are OK BUT it's a concern for their transparency and truthfulness in their advertising. If they are MM in their operation, they should just come out and say it like Oanda, FXCM and CMC and NOT hide behind the "ECN" brand and only disclose in their PDS. There is ABSOLUTELY nothing wrong with brokers like Oanda, FXCM and CMC; plenty of traders trade with them and they are fine with it. In fact, I know a trader who left IC Markets for CMC.

For trading on the interbank market, considering that the standard contract size on the interbank market is $100K and it's prudent to not have overly high leverage, so with about 50:1 or maximum 100:1 leverage like from UK, you are looking at 100,000/50 = $2000 give and take rooms for price movements for multiple lots in case you want to trade them, then you are looking at $10K AT LEAST.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #30
  • Apr 5, 2015 10:10pm Apr 5, 2015 10:10pm
IC markets charge huge swap on stock index. There is no way to trade stock index with IC markets.

FXCM has 10 pips gap between the price on the chart and the market watch. Buy stop and sell stop orders based on the chart can be screwed up. Other brokers also introduce a gap between the chart and the real market price to cheat on traders, but not as wide as 10 pips. That 10 pips may cause unexpected stop loss and in the long term a big deal for traders and the brokers. Traders's loss is brokers' profit.
  • #31
  • Apr 6, 2015 1:57am Apr 6, 2015 1:57am
Quoting Forexia
{quote} I will tell you any time when you see a broker is anything the following, it's 99.99999999999% a MM broker but posing as STP/DMA/Agency Model/ECN broker: Starting balance in the hundreds: $400, $200 Super-high leverage: 400 to 500:1 Offers MT4 even as ECN So I will let you figure out whether Tickmill is a REAL ECN or a MM posing as ECN Again I am NOT trying to discriminate against these brokers. Just because it's a MM broker it does NOT mean they are necessarily bad. There are plenty of MM brokers that are OK BUT it's a concern for their...

Try ctrader from icmarkets or pepperstone. They can't use VDP because it is not allowed by spotware but they can b-book but they are reputable so they won't steal your money outright.

About the leverage that is not right. In australia it is legal to pool clients money to create a super margin account in which all traders will have shared limits. So, you can have higher leverage up to a certain amount of deposit. The leverage will go down as your capital gets bigger.

About mt4 as ecn. Nowadays, there is already a bridge that can turn mt4 to an 'exchange'. For example, match-trade.com. Also mt4 can already be connected to fix api via bridge like primexm or match-trade or gold-i or onezero etc. The problem with mt4 is the existence of VDP. Also, you can randomize slippage nowadays on mt4. So, ctrader is a step up for retail trading as you can't do these things.

Minimum trading size varies from venue to venue. For example EBS has a minimum of 100k while hotspot you can trade lower sizes with extra trading fees. Banks used to not deal lower sizes but that has changed recently with advent of HFT algos which makes transaction more efficient. You can have a relationship with a bank which would provide liquidity for lower sizes.
  • #32
  • Edited 3:56am Apr 6, 2015 2:38am | Edited 3:56am
Quoting Supertrader9
{quote} Try ctrader from icmarkets or pepperstone. They can't use VDP because it is not allowed by spotware but they can b-book but they are reputable so they won't steal your money outright. About the leverage that is not right. In australia it is legal to pool clients money to create a super margin account in which all traders will have shared limits. So, you can have higher leverage up to a certain amount of deposit. The leverage will go down as your capital gets bigger. About mt4 as ecn. Nowadays, there is already a bridge that can turn mt4...
I have tried cTrader and I do agree that cTrader does provide mechanisms that helps align broker's interest with that of traders' such as not allowing for any plug-in's and it is an improvement over MT4 in many ways but just like you said it still doesn't eliminate the possibility for brokers to use it while acting as MM as in what Spotware has put it "to internalize the risk" albeit that they might turn around and hedge the client's positions to neutralize the risk.

But the bigger issue here is their transparency and misleading advertising. If they are b-booking their clients and really operating in a market making model and not really in an "STP" or "DMA" or "ECN", they should come out and state as such instead of making themselves appearing as one. It is misleading traders who really ARE looking for a true ECN broker and really don't want to trade with a MM broker even when they hedge their risks and causes them to waste their precious time and money. And at the same time, it is not fair to other brokers like Oanada and CMC Markets who are actually honest about their business model as they might have been robbed a chance of being tried by traders due to Oanda's reputation and length of experience and market position in the forex industry if they had known the true nature of those "pretend ECN/STP" brokers but instead were lured away by the appearance of "ECN" when in fact they still end up getting the same product & services. In other words, they are not allowing traders to make true comparison by pretending something that they are not. They are not allowing traders to compare apples with apples when they pretend to be oranges when in fact they really are apples and end up being apples to traders and that's not right.

And then there is the price transparency issue. If you make yourself out to be an ECN and STP broker, my trade should be going straight to the liquidity providers through your network/system without being touched at all by you besides maybe aggregation. You don't tell me in your PDS that you are a market maker and I shouldn't see a shadow of B-booking with the possibility that you become the counterparty of my trade. You should have no problem publishing your order books with ALL orders on the market including mine. If I see an instrument with 0 spread between bid and ask that's published on your cTrader, when I hit that price, I should get filled immediately exactly at the bid or ask, not 2 or 4 or 5 pips higher/lower when the fill is measured in milliseconds otherwise you should publish the true spread.
Make your losses in demo. Earn your profits live.
  • #33
  • Apr 8, 2015 1:16pm Apr 8, 2015 1:16pm
slippage -1 pip to +1 pip this week. can not complain.
last week there was a -15 pips slippage, which made me mad. think it is unusual. guess those who can not handle 10 pips slippage will blow their account sooner or later. Too greedy is a bad attitude.
  • #34
  • Apr 21, 2015 11:25am Apr 21, 2015 11:25am
i didnt have much of these problems back in march but in the past 2 weeks i kind of feel the same. i dont use pending orders but for all of my losses they always have at least 1 pip negative slippage outside of my SL. like let's say i put my SL at 127.750 then they took me out at 127.780 or something. Worst part happened today where they gave me -5 pip negative slippage! Strangely, i also had couple of winning trades and NONE of them have positive slippages. there's actually one winning transaction where I put TP at 118.950 and they took me out at 118.948 (long transaction) so actually one of my winning trades had -0.2 pip slippage as well! This is getting ridiculous tbh
  • #35
  • May 2, 2015 11:51am May 2, 2015 11:51am
Quoting phil_P
{quote} same here on EU, if you trade XAU/USD would be even worse... e.g. if buy $1162 SL $1160 would hit and actually close at $1159 or $1158.8 TP $1170 may hit and acutally close at $1169.80 I email them before, and they said it was due to LP price feed
what is the average slippage on XAU/USD?
  • #36
  • May 3, 2015 10:37am May 3, 2015 10:37am
Quoting mry2001
IC markets charge huge swap on stock index. There is no way to trade stock index with IC markets. FXCM has 10 pips gap between the price on the chart and the market watch. Buy stop and sell stop orders based on the chart can be screwed up. Other brokers also introduce a gap between the chart and the real market price to cheat on traders, but not as wide as 10 pips. That 10 pips may cause unexpected stop loss and in the long term a big deal for traders and the brokers. Traders's loss is brokers' profit.
I only concern with the gap issue, if you put it that way people would mistaken and think the price often gapping for 10 pips . better spelled is "Stop order/level", we can found these while checking any pair symbol specs, and for EA based scalper these could be an important trading feature (at least that's what I read ). 10 pips are quite low, some brokers has 50 pips, yet they stated as ECN service provider. but I've got 0 pips on tickmill trading platform, put it on term of scalping the rest obstacle while scalping entries are with the spread only then, no additional distance from the 'gap'. but I dont think these the only think considered act to be an ECN feed. it is wise to check the stop order/level trading condition, since these distance price should added when slippage happen, and I believe there's many other brokers feed with same 0 pips stop order/level.
  • #37
  • May 3, 2015 10:43am May 3, 2015 10:43am
Heard Icmarkets changed its accounts execution type, anyone?
  • #38
  • May 11, 2015 1:08pm May 11, 2015 1:08pm
I am mostly an intraday scalper where even 0.5-1 pips can make a big difference to my trades.

I chose this broker, IC markets, believing that since it was an ECN. It has really low commissions and really low spreads (its quite low really). ItsAustralian regulated. Why not?
It came to a point where my trades were suspiciously stopping out really quickly despite setting the stop loss according to my software.
I took it to a fx forum. Where they help me to compare different charts to different brokers. Mine was the unfortunate exception.
Turns out IC market has been giving me prices that are 1 PIP (i play by 1 lot [$100,000] per trade. So 1 pip is about $10 bucks ish.), anyway the price doesnt matter, is just that my stop losses just keep running.

Overall just very horrified and terrified by this dishonest (or is it?) kind of charting.

I dont know much about different sources different brokers eg. Im just a small trader in a big pond.

Over here attached is my own findings. Trading view is my charting software. The middle is another broker with the same MT4 platform, and on the left is IC markets.
Attached Image (click to enlarge)
Click to Enlarge Name: ic markets.jpg Size: 679 KB
  • #39
  • May 27, 2015 8:07am May 27, 2015 8:07am
Avoid ICM at all cost. The slippage is often as high as 30 pips on eurusd. Once you are profitable the slippage will increase.
  • #40
  • May 27, 2015 10:36pm May 27, 2015 10:36pm
I just saw on my platform ICMarkets-live01 not in Newyork. My terminal log into server at singapore, hongkong, amsterdam, all over the global. Of course the latency is 500-600 ms. DAmn. I should notice that earlier. No wonder the big slipapge. Half an second means many pips movement.
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