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VTTrader: broker disconnections - is it only me..

  • #1
  • First Post: Jul 25, 2006 4:45am Jul 25, 2006 4:45am
i don't know what's wrong lately. but since the start of this week. i always get frequent disconnections..never had something like this before,,maybe once or twice..but not from time to time. i switch to demo from live account and still got the same frequent disconnections. dealing support suggested that i uninstall and reinstall again. even used that beta tool to remove vttrader registry info before a fresh install on a new folder. but still the same.. was at margin call yesterday because i could not logged back in time.. can connect only a minute and got disconnected again..

then the last resort they gave me was disable that SSL option. did'nt do much help either..
  • #2
  • Aug 3, 2006 1:57am Aug 3, 2006 1:57am
For me this is the second time this has done this too me. I put in a order and it is now 40 min. I have waited for it to get put in. So I am not sure how long it will take today. Last time is was 50 min. and the market had gone up and come back down before my original order went in untill I could close it. From what I see I think I will close my live account and find a new home that actually works. I do like the charts though.
  • #3
  • Aug 4, 2006 9:57pm Aug 4, 2006 9:57pm
Today, 8/4, during NFP, I went long on gbp just before the announcement and made alot of pips. I was using my VT platform. The 1st problem was that I tried 4 times to enter a stop, and I got an error msg. "The system has failed to process your request, please try again later". The 2nd problem was I noticed gbp move about 45 pips higher on the MT platform I had open at the same time as VT, but the VT chart just stalled with the lower price for about 30 seconds. The 3rd problem was that I lost my connection to VT. I was able to re-log in later and set my stop. I find it amusing that whenever someone complains about VT, cms response is always, check this on your computer, check that, etc., etc. There have been way too many complaints for it to be the problem with the trader. Either CMS is either deliberately disconnecting VT, because they may lose money, or because their servers need a major upgrade. In either case, they need to rectify the situation or get out of the forex business.
  • #4
  • Aug 5, 2006 7:07pm Aug 5, 2006 7:07pm
In the past I was a strong supporter of VT . I went through some bad times with them for the disconnection reason. Then after the last upgrade or maybe two ago, they seemed to get their act together. Now in the past few weeks or month it seems to be 'deja vu all over again'.... maybe worse based on the posts here.

I am one of those who have moved their main account to Oanda (from FXCM) and only use VT for charting not trading. Oanda has 'school playground' charting compared to 'Disneyland' charting on VT.

What I need is ONE FREE SITE that has:

Oanda flexibility with micro pips trading and interest income on account
VT variety of tools and plus hedging option
FXCM IFR message board and News squawk box
A chart provider that allows time stamping into the future

Not asking for much.
  • #5
  • Aug 15, 2006 6:20pm Aug 15, 2006 6:20pm
Quote
as the market begins to make a move my LIVE account gets kicked off
I see that during news this morning the live VT CMS server stopped trading.

http://forum.vtsystems.com/index.php?showtopic=4639

Quote
Forex review :
* Advantages: Highly liquid market, can achieve high leverage, very small account equity allowed by some brokers.
* Disadvantages: Poorly regulated – this is not an exchange-traded market...and almost all retail Forex trading is done with your broker taking the other side of your trade. Despite the claims of “free commissions,” this is a relatively high transaction cost markets because the spread and slippage on trades can be very high.
* Bottom Line: The lack of regulation makes this a “buyer beware” type of market. The hidden transaction costs are much higher than meets the eye. These factors combine to make this a less favorable choice for most traders and investors. However, adventurous traders and those willing to take on leverage and fight through bad fills in fast markets can find a very active market for currency trading in Forex
Since you are trading against CMS (when you buy they sell - a requirement of the NFA) they must place an opposite trade with their money. This takes time and money, so during heavy trading they may not allow some trades.
  • #6
  • Aug 16, 2006 3:49pm Aug 16, 2006 3:49pm
Since your broker is taking the other side of your trade (you are not trading in interbank or with other bankers, only with your broker) when you make money CMS loses money. A way around this is for a broker to make 2 trades - a buy and a sell - so that he will come out even. That of course requires more money and time, and some would rather profit from your loss than profit from the spread only, one of the problems with spot Forex.
  • #7
  • Aug 16, 2006 9:21pm Aug 16, 2006 9:21pm
I gave up on CMS about a month ago and went with FXDD because of all of these mentioned problems that are apparantly still problems. Straddled both news news releases the past few dys..filled at my buy stop exactly. Just wondering how long that will last. We'll see...
  • #8
  • Aug 16, 2006 10:16pm Aug 16, 2006 10:16pm
!I noticed recently that instead of VT going down, I just get an error message when I place an order that the trading system is down. Here is transcript of chat session today:
"you: i am using demo. I am trying to place a trade now and I am receiving a msg. on my VT platform that trading is currently unavailable - why am I getting that message?
Lev: please try to restart VT
you: why?
Lev: it should be fine once you relogin
you: there is no problem with my VT platform - CMS for some reason is not taking orders.
Lev: Sir please restart your platform, we take all the orders from demo
you: that's not the point. Many times I have tried to place orders and/or enter stops during news times but VT won't accept my order. How can I trade effectively if I am supposed to restart my platform!
Lev: 1. A definition of Stop and Limit orders may be found in the "Types of Orders" section of the website.
Lev: 2. Stop orders are triggered when market price touches the price specified in the order, and Limit orders are triggered when the market price touches but does not break through the price specified in the order. When this happens, the client’s initial order is executed requesting that the order be filled at the specified price. CMS has an in-house policy of honoring Stop and Limit orders of up to $1 million. Larger orders may be requoted if the market price has moved away from the specified price.
Lev: 3. Please note that due to possible price gaps over the weekend, slippage on Stop and Limit orders is possible when the market opens at 5pm EST on Sunday.
Lev: 4. The Stop and Limit policy, with regard to no slippage, applies only under normal market conditions. We do our best to provide execution at the trader's specified price. It is the in-house policy of CMS to try to honor all stop and limit orders up to 10 standard lots. However, during extremely fast market moves, this sometimes is not possible.
Lev: 5. The minimum range between a new stop or limit order and the market price is a function of current market volatility. It is obvious that during, or immediately preceding, significant economic announcements, market volatility is greatly increased. As a consequence, most FCMs have 2 options: (1) widening the spread on currency pairs, or (2) increasing the entry stop and limit ranges. Effective immediately, the required range between a new stop or limit order and the market price will increase from 5 pips to a maximum of 35 pips approximately 15 minutes before a significant economic announcement, in order to reflect the degree of current market volatility. During extremely fast market moves, you may therefore notice that you are unable to place or move any stop or limit order to within 35 pips of the current market price. As do many FCMs, CMS offsets many orders with counterparty banks that supply price feeds. During the heavy market conditions, it is extremely difficult to get prices from these counterparties. This is another reason why CMS has adopted this policy. CMS feels that this policy is more beneficial to the client than offering a variable spread during times of peak volatility.
Lev: Please Note: Under normal market conditions. We do our best to provide execution at the trader's specified price. It is the in-house policy of CMS to try to honor all stop and limit orders up to 10 standard lots. However, during extremely fast market moves, this sometimes is not possible. Under no circumstances will a market order be executed at a price that is not approved by the trader.
you: so, why didn't you tell me that in the first place? So, the problem isn't with the platform
Lev: it is only for Live accounts not for Demo
you: widen the spread to 35p 15m before news? You guys are going to lose alot of customers!"
  • #9
  • Aug 17, 2006 3:51pm Aug 17, 2006 3:51pm
Since most good trading is around news events a spread of 35 pips will discourage most from trading then. This info is not given on their web site:

http://www.cmsfx.com/en/

FXDD doesn't guarantee fills around news time either, and there are posts here and in other forums stating the problems traders have had with no fills and slippage. ECNs will often give spreads around news of 0-2 pips. CMS is deceptive about their policies as are many brokers.
  • #10
  • Aug 18, 2006 12:28pm Aug 18, 2006 12:28pm
There may be some misunderstanding here.

With CMS, the spread remains the same throughout the day. The spread is the difference between a buy and a sell order at any given moment. With CMS the spreads are stable.

During high volatility, CMS widens the distance between the current price and where it will allow a trader to place a stop or limit order from the customary 5-7 pips to as much as 35 pips. By doing this CMS is able to continue to honor stops and limits. If you put your trade in with a stop and limit more than 15 minutes before the news event, you will be able to snug up a stop or limit right next to the order and CMS will do their best to honor it. If you wait until you are inside the 15 minute window, the closest to the price that you will be able to get a stop or limit order into the system may be as much as 35 pips away. This has been CMS's practice for quite some time, so it is not anything new. The alternative would be to let you have that "feel good" feeling about being able to snug up a stoploss order and then having your trade actually settle 35 pips away from your stoploss order. This is called "slippage" and is common among some other brokers. Personally, I think CMS's approach is the more honest one.

If you remain connected (another valid concern), you can still execute a market order to close your trade at anytime regardless of any stop or limit order restrictions. If you get disconnected, the stop and limit orders that you have in place will most likely be honored -- even after the fact.

It is painful when traders blow out their account, but it would be far more painful for all of us who have live trading accounts with CMS, if CMS blew out their own account. We would all lose then.

cheers,

gnarly trader
  • #11
  • Aug 18, 2006 5:35pm Aug 18, 2006 5:35pm
gnarly_trader - Thanks for your clarification. I like VTrader because it is easy to use and program, and compared to MT4 the backtester is much better and more accurate. CMS has lower margin requirements and initial amounts to open accounts than many so a margin call is less likely. The close of bar trading is a problem (stops may take a long time to trigger) but that is being updated in the future to include intrabar trading (which introduces other problems tho). CMS seems to honor orders that are placed, and slippage is a problem with most brokers.

Connection has been a big problem with CMS for many years and progress has been made recently and is the focus of future updates. Live chat is a nice feature but is not totally accurate and will distort features and blame problems on anything but CMS and VT. CMS must do what they have to to stay in business, and news trading has gotten chaotic with some trading only for 2 min and exiting.

Most brokers don't guarantee fills around news time, and slippage occurs a lot. It is important to place orders early to avoid the rush around news events, and 1 min reversals then are rare. The practice of everyone placing orders immediately after the news (banks and traders do it a lot) is a problem and hopefully this can be changed. I have seen 100 pip movement in 1 minute which is crazy.
  • #12
  • Aug 18, 2006 6:23pm Aug 18, 2006 6:23pm
I sent an email to the customer service of CMS about my orders not being filled on time, and having the "system down" message...

He replied that they have some technical problems with the new version of VT, and advised me to uninstall it, and download the previous version and discard the update requests when opening the program...

Here's the link for downloading the previous version:
http://vtsoftware.fxserver.com<wbr>/VTtrader/previous/VTtraderSet<wbr>up.exe



And about the 35 pips spread during news time, this is a totally new issue, I've been demoing on VT for more than a year, and had my live account opened during news time, and that never happened before today (18/8/06)...

If this is to assure that the orders are guaranteed, and I can fill my close orders at anytime I want, then it's a great technique...
  • #13
  • Aug 18, 2006 9:04pm Aug 18, 2006 9:04pm
Quote
about the 35 pips spread during news time, I've never happened before today. If this is to assure that the orders are guaranteed, and I can fill my close orders at anytime I want, then it's a great technique.
It looks as tho the spreads are still the same during news but limits and stops are filled at market order status which could mean 50 pips difference. CMS usually will guarantee an order once its received and filled. Placing a close order will end the order if you can place it during heavy trading. You may get a disconnect or freeze due to heavy traffic tho. If there are any problems use the order number and contact them so they can correct it.

Quote
If you put your trade in with a stop and limit more than 15 minutes before the news event, you will be able to snug up a stop or limit right next to the order and CMS will do their best to honor it.gnarly_trader.
  • #14
  • Aug 20, 2006 4:43pm Aug 20, 2006 4:43pm
Quoting richx7
Since your broker is taking the other side of your trade (you are not trading in interbank or with other bankers, only with your broker) when you make money CMS loses money. A way around this is for a broker to make 2 trades - a buy and a sell - so that he will come out even. That of course requires more money and time, and some would rather profit from your loss than profit from the spread only, one of the problems with spot Forex.
I am new to forex and VT. What do you guys mean when you say forex is not an open exchange and when you place a trade the broker is taking the other side of the trade and they can lose money by doing this? This just sound like the old bucket shops from the early 1900's.

Are there larger brokers out there that do simply act as true brokers between buyers and sellers? And if so, which ones use the VT platform? I opened a demo account with CMS, but now I am having second thoughts about trading with them.

Thanks!
  • #15
  • Aug 20, 2006 5:26pm Aug 20, 2006 5:26pm
Who is your broker?
  • #16
  • Aug 20, 2006 5:34pm Aug 20, 2006 5:34pm
Quote
forex is not an open exchange and when you place a trade the broker is taking the other side of the trade and they can lose money by doing this? This just sound like the old bucket shops from the early 1900's. Are there larger brokers out there that do simply act as true brokers between buyers and sellers? And if so, which ones use the VT platform?
CMS is a market maker (MM) that takes buys and sells from traders and must hedge the difference. If there are 1000 buys and 900 sells CMS must place 100 sells. You are not trading with Interbank but with CMS (all MMs do their own trading). All VTrader brokers (including European I assume) use CMS servers and trade with CMS only. To get around this you can use an ECN or trade futures which require higher margins and larger orders normally. CMS with VTrader is not a true broker but an intermediate that uses smaller orders and bunches them together before placing them with interbank. They cannot handle big news trading and will freeze up then - not accepting orders . Stops and limits become market orders during news - many brokers are doing this now including IBFX. Placing orders early before news events will help get your order filled. There is a difference between trading a demo and trading live - and results are different. Orders accepted in a demo may not get filled in a live account.
  • #17
  • Aug 20, 2006 7:46pm Aug 20, 2006 7:46pm
The whole system of market maker trading introduces many problems, and brokers can lose a lot of money if traders are winning. I feel all FX trading should be done with ECNs or futures (if you have a lot of money) where all profits are from commissions. The government is partially to blame for many problems by requiring hedging trades and releasing news that will trigger high volume trading. I have seen 100 pip movement in 1 minute after major news which is crazy.
  • #18
  • Aug 21, 2006 7:09pm Aug 21, 2006 7:09pm
Here is a link to give you an idea of how trading ECNs and futures are. Spreads are usually 1-3 pips during trading hours and are changing continually but may hit 15 pips on weekends. Futures are on the left and right and spot Forex is in the middle. Some use futures quotes in their intraday FX trading.

http://equivalentsrdc.cme.com:443/index.html

Quote
CME E-quivalents displays CME FX futures prices in spot equivalent terms and makes it easy to compare futures and OTC prices.
http://equivalentsrdc.cme.com:443/currency_overview.html
  • #19
  • Edited 10:35am Sep 14, 2006 9:59am | Edited 10:35am
Recently I had a serious problem with CMS and VT 1.8.1. They pocket about 80 pips because of Visual Trader glitch and refused to refund the money. Initially the dealing support technician replied:
<!--StartFragment -->
Quote
unfortunately, we have found that the new build of the VT platform may have a default setting that hinders the platform from retrieving update messages from our systems.
Later, when I asked them to recover the loss caused by the bug, the department manager answered:
Quote
We are unable to offer you a credit at this time because CMS does not control signal power, its reception or routing via Internet, configuration of your equipment or reliability of its connection, we cannot be responsible for communication failures, distortions or delays when trading online (via Internet)...

My recommendation - stay away from CMS Forex or close your account before you lose it. For those who are interested I can provide by PM or e-mail the link to a full topic with screenshots and details.
Ben
  • #20
  • Edited 11:13am Sep 14, 2006 11:00am | Edited 11:13am
While I still think vt has the best charting platform out there. I have seen there error has occured message for the last time. after several 30 pips.
loses. I had a eur/usd trade show as still running on the screen with a moving p/l the 14th that was closed on the 12th after I had moved my stop to break even. but the platform still showed my first 30 pips s/l. So I went to take a small 12 pip profit. Checked the account still the same. Had to check the report to find out what really happened.
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